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General/Other - Sub-Zero 3 Variations of Sub-Zero discussion

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
I may play Sub, haven't decided yet, but I think it may be crucial to know all three styles, two at least for different matchups. I can't say a definitive style will be better against other members of the cast without seeing more game footage, and likely competitive play. Even if clone is standard, it may not always be optimal.
 

RexyWrecks

RTSD All Day. I'm going in. No Vaseline.
Learning MU's is going to take a while! There are essentially 72 chars in the game so I'd be surprised if there was DLC. On the positive side, the 3 style system will really appeal to character loyalist.
 
I'm wondering how NRS are going to balance all these characters and their different versions, considering the ton of matchups that need to be investigated for balance. The patching phase after the game is released is going to be rather interesting.
 

9_Lives

Noob
We should come up with weird names for each style. Like the one that sucks the hardest against the most characters can be called "Sub Par/Sub Standard Style" (pun intended), and the Sub Clone can be called tbs for "Tom Brady Special" or something lol.

And if we don't do that, then we at least have to start a race war with the Scorpion players. I already got like three people that I'm talking de smack to who aren't even on tym. Just imagine ze hype!

Massive semi-relevant rant; read at your own risk.​
Intimidating Calculation Involving MU's:​
This whole "style" thing is going to totally change how to approach a matchup chart in general. If you want to find that "best of 10" thing, it will have to be 3 sets of 10 against each character to find out how just one style alone fares against them, so 9 sets total if you want to fight all three of their styles with each of your styles for a given character. Then combine that factor with a currently silhouetted cast of 24 characters (assuming every single one has three styles.) So just subtracting 3 sets off for your own character (one for each mirror match), that's going to be 24x9-3=213 sets, making for 2130 games played to completely pick apart just one character and their three styles. Does that not sound horrifyingly complicated yet somehow awesome at the same time? Like, what if someone went through and played all of those match ups, and then some random dude found some tech that totally changed everything and all of them had to go back and be recalculated.

True Mirror Matches?​
This is all just assuming we Sub Zero fans want to dissect him down to the very core and want to know which style to use against each character/whatever style they are using, mirrors included. If every Sub player who runs into each other plays differently, there's could be counterpicking mirrors. Say one Sub plays Ice Weapons and loses to a Sub Clone, and hypothetically Sub Parry beats Sub Clone or something.

Playstyles vs. Characters:​
Another thing I thought about is the potential for one who is exceptionally offensive as a player say PL or whomever to just pick the offense based playstyles of different characters (say one is a better counter zoner while another fares better against grappling characters or something, I don't know.). Or zoners like M2Dave pick zoning styles of multiple characters et cetera. You get where I'm going. I bet we'll be seeing some really interesting developments involving character loyalty vs. individual playstyles at the later stages of higher level play. (assuming we make it far enough to see it happen. XD)

Conclusion:​
This has got me on both ends of the spectrum. A part of me wants each style to be similar enough that it won't significantly impact a mu, making for an easier time grinding and collecting data. But another feels that it could be highly interesting if there was a dramatic change in playstyle by just switching a couple of normals and specials to the point that such pondering is required. If done correctly, it could eliminate standard tier lists and create an odd mix match like "SubZero Clone is top 5, but SubZero Ice Weapons is bottom 5".
 

FOXSOLID

Noob
I know this is about SubZero and he looks great, but Scorpion's Inferno variation is no joke. He's gonna be deadly, he covers so much of the playing field with those demons he can summon. His mobility on top of that will just help that situation.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
Until I can get my hands on the game to check out the other styles for myself, I'm thinking "Clone".

Or we may find out later on in the game that there will be certain styles for certain match up's. Who knows?
 

Sami

Noob
Or we may find out later on in the game that there will be certain styles for certain match up's. Who knows?
More than likely. Someone with armour or teleport attacks may not be threatened too much by the clone but have issues with the parry (assuming they break armour).

Gut reaction is that it seems the styles help mitigate counter picking and allows them to add a variety of moves to characters without overpowering them with all the options at once (example: MMH). When the tourney rules are intelligently debated on TYM I hope that style selection can be changed by the winner if the loser counter picks - the loser still has the advantage of choosing whoever they want but the winner doesn't have to (hopefully!) deal with an unavoidable 2-8 counter pick.
 

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
this is the best incarnation for sub zero ever, he looks mean and relentless. im so glad he is not playin the good guy anymore coz this is how i always pictured him. simply cold and deadly.

loving everything i saw from sub, day 1 main for sure !

talk about that spine snap lol
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
this is the best incarnation for sub zero ever, he looks mean and relentless. im so glad he is not playin the good guy anymore coz this is how i always pictured him. simply cold and deadly.
lol, yeah. I loved it in the one video where he basically said, "I'm sick of your shit, Scorpion!"
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I'm wondering how NRS are going to balance all these characters and their different versions, considering the ton of matchups that need to be investigated for balance. The patching phase after the game is released is going to be rather interesting.
They may actually decide not to bother past "character" levels. Let us unleash imagination for a moment.

Say, you have Subs vs Scorp.

Infernal Scorp may end up being kinda zoning-oriented, and Clone Sub may end up suboptimal against him, but maybe armor or weapons will end up a thing against summoning style. If so, will NRS bother with balancing Clone Sub versus zoning, or will they just say "pick another style"? I'd say that the latter is more likely.

Then again, I wish we won't end up with one style to rule them all for some characters, or with counterpicking hell (it's actually important to know how styles will be chosen - for one, will your opponent know what you're picking? When you will be allowed to change it? Good questions that will affect tournaments quite a bit).
 

Jeffreys

Grundy think you handsome!
The only way I can see this working in Sub Zero's favor is:

Ice weapons: give range to normals to help deal with zoning and help your spacing (also gives extra damage)

Parry, armor: To help deal with teleport characters that negate spacing and the ice clone and just teleport to make your life hell.

Ice clone: for rush down characters that can get in and do F3 all day
(Throwing the ice clone seems too slow and a gimmick at best and doesn't even freeze the opponent)
@Tom Brady

Don't fuck this up NRS
 
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NY-Shadow

TestYourMight SUCKS
I'm glad to see the three variation system. Looks like many, many players will be happy being able to choose versions they like best or should I even dare say yet which versions are broken lol.
 

SilverKeyMan

Dropping Combos like a MotherFucker!
The Cryomancer (Weapons) style really interests me. The idea of aggressive med-close zoning using the additional distance is fantastic. I just wonder if these are going to affect his normals, or if they are supers only.

The Ice Clones style seems like the popular choice so far, and mostly because of that, I think I'll pass. I'm not a tournament player, so the idea of waiting for guys to find tech for me and mimicking their style doesn't appeal to me very much.
 

Hini

Batomancer
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the parry is either Cryomancer or universal.


8:33

I didnt play mk9 so this might not be what you're refering to at all when you're saying parry.