Match-up Discussion Zoner love(hate)

[ColeTrain]

If your a fan of MK, not just FGs. Than this match up discussion should rile up your feathers into debate at the very least. Blackula v @Devotheman playing kenshi v kabal. While I was watching loser finals with kenshi v sektor (swifttomhanks) my thoughts were led to: wow kenshi is such a cheap character, his zoning capability is beyond ridiculous. On top of that kenshi is S tier while IMO sektor is a B, and a low one at that. Now while TomHanks Did lose, (3rd) he was beasting every time he was able to get in past kenshis massive mix up of non-breakable/ meter building/ defensive zoning. Respect to Tom on that show. And now the finals: the second kabal takes the stage and you watch the number 1 zoner get out zoned by iAgb you can't help but feel like crap that one of your favorite series is being dominated by one character. And when he even got close to being in a neutral zone with kabal he throws an EXnd and takes down 25%+ and gets back into frame advantage, and meter building beyond comparison of the other characters. I understand he takes a while to learn, but is that fair? God like capabilities because you dedicated a month to a character? My Reptile has about the same amount of time in training. Where's his god status? Smh. This maybe a little salty, but I feel the kabal Kingdom needs to crumble down. And maybe kenshi >.>

 

[FrothyOmen]

TLDR: You should be good at a character after a month of playing them or else they are a bad character

This is such a beautiful example of how little understanding most of TYM's posters have about how MK9 works. Fighting games in general, actually.

 

[ColeTrain]

Where's the example, please explain what I said that makes me so ignorant

 

[ColeTrain]

TLDR: You should be good at a character after a month of playing them or else they are a bad character

This is such a beautiful example of how little understanding most of TYM's posters have about how MK9 works. Fighting games in general, actually.

And ontop of that before the revival of mk9 I was a shooter kind of guy thank you

 

[Cossner]

Reptile does pretty well against Kuhbawl.


You came 2 years late to the party on the Kabal Hate Train.

 

[ColeTrain]

Yeah going through the old threads I see it all, why didn't the MKC actually take action... The invisible armor on the ndc, the insane mix up options, the nearly impervious iAgb, etc. when I go to play a fighting game, I expect a fight you know. Not keep away.

 

[FrothyOmen]

why didn't the MKC actually take action

 

[gdf]

Yeah going through the old threads I see it all, why didn't the MKC actually take action... The invisible armor on the ndc, the insane mix up options, the nearly impervious iAgb, etc. when I go to play a fighting game, I expect a fight you know. Not keep away.

No one actually considered Kabal an immutable top tier, just an incredibly solid character. As time went on, the gaps in other top characters became more evident, while for Kabal, they became less so.

In the beginning of the game, damage was king, guaranteed damage. Cyrax and Lao have never left Top 5, regardless of what people have to say, due to their versatility (IIRC highest amount of special moves in the game, or near highest between each of them). Kabal was never a huge damage character, so there was no outcry against him. (Or at least as much compared to other characters)

Only after the MK community leveled up, did we realize that characters with the least amount of holes in their offense, not the most damage, won the match.

 

[ColeTrain]

And to sum that all up is saying its too late huh. I've seen both PL and REOs kabal hate, but was it ignorance and spite that led to ignoring their plea? Or something else?

 

[Icebaby]

Why must everything be emphasized about tiers and placement around here?

What if Kenshi wasn't S?

What if Sektor wasn't B?

How can anyone say they know how good a character is? What if you don't? Let the game evolve on it's own without shoving everything in placements.

 

[ColeTrain]

What if this and what if that. The game has been out for so long that we've discovered it's mechanics. Hence the disgust with kabal. Go ahead Icebaby, go discover some new god tech that terrorizes kabal. The top dog of mk9. Claim that as a tier and shove it in your juice box

 

[Icebaby]

What if this and what if that. The game has been out for so long that we've discovered it's mechanics. Hence the disgust with kabal. Go ahead Icebaby, go discover some new god tech that terrorizes kabal. The top dog of mk9. Claim that as a tier and shove it in your juice box

If Kabal was so good and out to be what everyone makes him to be, then why did Kabal just get wrecked at EVO 2013?

As a matter of fact, why hasn't Kabal won ANY EVO?

Hmm.... Maybe people could possibly be wrong about things. Just a possibility here.

Nothing is ever set in fact.

Games evolve plenty over time, some even over decades still continue to evolve.

MK9 has been out for a little over 2 years. It's still relatively new in the grand scheme of generation fighters out.

 

[aldazo]

Kenshi is broken.

 

[ColeTrain]

Kabal didn't win because DJT read REO's every move. And then busted out 90%+ combos because he knew he needed tw damage output in Order to not have a prolonged fight which is generally in kabals favor. And for 2011 and 2012, well: '11 noone knew of kabals capabilities. '12: I'm pretty sure PL was just wiping floors with everyone since he didn't drop a single combo the entire top 8. But you know, you could just believe what you want since it will help you not progress the community which in all recent threads I've seen you in, all you do is bicker, argue, and complain.

 

[gdf]

And to sum that all up is saying its too late huh. I've seen both PL and REOs kabal hate, but was it ignorance and spite that led to ignoring their plea? Or something else?

To be completely honest it is the elephant in the room everyone wants to ignore in every fighting game.

A vast majority of people refuse to acknowledge that their(objective, not directed at anyone in particular) character is broken, and that skill brought them victory. The top players choose to acknowledge character strengths, while using and abusing them, essentially, bringing a gun to a knife fight.

 

[Icebaby]

Kabal didn't win because DJT read REO's every move. And then busted out 90%+ combos because he knew he needed tw damage output in Order to not have a prolonged fight which is generally in kabals favor. And for 2011 and 2012, well: '11 noone knew of kabals capabilities. '12: I'm pretty sure PL was just wiping floors with everyone since he didn't drop a single combo the entire top 8. But you know, you could just believe what you want since it will help you not progress the community which in all recent threads I've seen you in, all you do is bicker, argue, and complain.

So basically Kabal didn't win because he got outplayed? But I thought Kabal was this extremely broken character that no one can match and is in his own tier above the cast? Hmm...

REO's Kabal wasn't the only one to get shutdown.

Detroit's Kabal got beat.

Perfect Legend's Kabal got beat.

30 other Kabal players I saw playing in that tournament also got beat pretty covincingly.

Perhaps Kabal is just another top tier character and not this unstoppable machine some of you make him out to be?

Kabal, Cyax, Sonya, Kung Lao, Kenshi, and Freddy seem all in the same tier to me.

But what would I know? I'm just going by the biggest tournament in history of fighting games as my opinion on the game.

 

[ColeTrain]

But I prefer knife fights ya know. I go watch movies to see a god take on a lesser. Not my video games where strategy and a general fairness is applied. If not one game is addressing its problematic character, why not MK9 set the standard and start a new trend. Doing something

 

[ColeTrain]

But who's opinion are you basing off? Your own? I'm listening to the community playing the game and I have to say I agree with them. No character is an even match to him. The kabal players didn't do their hw on DJT. Simple as that.

 

[gdf]

But I prefer knife fights ya know. I go watch movies to see a god take on a lesser. Not my video games where strategy and a general fairness is applied. If not one game is addressing its problematic character, why not MK9 set the standard and start a new trend. Doing something

Look, the idealist prefers knife fights, and in a serious tone everyone is an idealist in their own right(I like watching equal fights too). The fact is in reality, not everyone gets a fair chance, or an equal opportunity. To the better prepared goes the victory.

The fact is for the last 20 or so years all fighting games have tried. They(fighting game developers) have been doing something, 20 years of testing and the perfect balanced, well-respected, enjoyed by all, fighting games hasn't been made.

Nobody likes it(imbalance), but the ones who've been here(fighting game players) the longest don't make a fuss about it. They just play the game and have fun with what they have.

 

[Icebaby]

But I prefer knife fights ya know. I go watch movies to see a god take on a lesser. Not my video games where strategy and a general fairness is applied. If not one game is addressing its problematic character, why not MK9 set the standard and start a new trend. Doing something

You prefer knife fights but play Sonya? Girl, please. That character is in the same ship with the likes of Cyrax, Kabal, Kung Lao, Freddy, and Kenshi.

 

[ColeTrain]

My og is reptile, following with mileena sub raiden Shang etc. I could go on, but lets say that out of the 15+ characters I play only two is thrown in with that lot. Sonya yes, but she's been with me since mk2. And cyrax, he was my main my mkda. Couldn't pass him by. I don't pick up kenshi with his forever zoning or kabal with his forever ndc mix up. I play people you can have a fair match up against.

 

[CrazySlasher]

My og is reptile, following with mileena sub raiden Shang etc. I could go on, but lets say that out of the 15+ characters I play only two is thrown in with that lot. Sonya yes, but she's been with me since mk2. And cyrax, he was my main my mkda. Couldn't pass him by. I don't pick up kenshi with his forever zoning or kabal with his forever ndc mix up. I play people you can have a fair match up against.

I've got some bad news, Sonya wasn't in MK 2.

 

[Icebaby]

My og is reptile, following with mileena sub raiden Shang etc. I could go on, but lets say that out of the 15+ characters I play only two is thrown in with that lot. Sonya yes, but she's been with me since mk2. And cyrax, he was my main my mkda. Couldn't pass him by. I don't pick up kenshi with his forever zoning or kabal with his forever ndc mix up. I play people you can have a fair match up against.

All the characters you play aren't fair in their owns ways.

Reptile is top 10 and forces people to stand their blocking in fear of 1 move.

Mileena is one of the hardest characters to hit with her ridiculous small hitbox.

Sub-Zero's ice clone shuts down a lot of characters neutral game and negates jumping simultaneously.

Raiden is impossible to zone or keep out and one of the hardest turtlers to pry open.

Shang Tsung pressure is overwhelming for a lot of characters and in the corner some characters can't even get up off the ground.

 

[miloPKL]

are you MrColetrain on xbox?

 

[Spinky]

Kenshi is broken.

QQ