Guide - Vicious XL Vicious Guide

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Trauma_and_Pain submitted a new resource:

XL Vicious Guide - A deep living guide to Vicious updated to reflect MKXL changes (March 1, 2016 patch). Includes everything you need to know about the variation's general strengths/weaknesses, abilities, strategy and zoning.

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[MK Led]

Nice, pretty good overall, but a few things I noticed were:

Standing 1 is 9 frames, not 8 (also you didn't list the JIKs, not that they are wildly useful, but might be worth including for the sake of completion).

You listed 1,1,2+4 twice, the second entry was basically the same as the first but with a little more info.

You didn't list 4,2+4 in the Strings section, which is probably worth mentioning.

NJK can be useful if they are expecting an NJP and run/jump in to punish it but the kick comes out much quicker and often catches people off guard (and in other similar scenarios where your opponent is very strongly expecting an NJP to come out).

This is more just my opinion but in the combo section I wouldn't list a D2 starter combo as D2 is increeeedibly slow, especially if people are reading this guide and playing FT for the first time or are generally new to the game/character. I would also list f2 ~ f3 ~ 4xxBF4 and NJP ~ (run) ~ f3 ~ f2 ~ f3 ~ 4xxBF4 under meterless combos, as these are very basic combos that do good damage and generally get a lot of mileage, especially against people who are unfamiliar with fighting FT.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

cool guide! i'd list a few combos that start off of njp. njp is just such a good punish/space control tool. I always just did njp 4xxbf4 but i know that's not the optimal, don't know what is, maybe a f3 before the 4, not sure.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Thanks for the feedback guys. There's still a lot I need to change, especially combos. I'm still figuring out which combos I want to include in all the different sections. I think D2 is worth mentioning just for some of the trickery I've found with it. It's generally too slow to be a viable option in neutral, but it's fine after a D1 on hit, for example. It's an individual decision on whether or not to use it, but the combos are available for anybody who does.

Definitely going to include NJP combos as well.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Thanks for the feedback guys. There's still a lot I need to change, especially combos. I'm still figuring out which combos I want to include in all the different sections. I think D2 is worth mentioning just for some of the trickery I've found with it. It's generally too slow to be a viable option in neutral, but it's fine after a D1 on hit, for example. It's an individual decision on whether or not to use it, but the combos are available for anybody who does.

Definitely going to include NJP combos as well.

How the hell do you do anything with d2??? Been trying a little bit and nothing seems to connect after.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I also want to say that b1212 is actually a great string, its a HKD that leaves them right at torrs feet, while every other combo ender either sends them full screen or isn't a hkd. good set up for a cross up, i use it more in Ruthless to get a PnG out.

Jeez, I almost want to make another guide just cuz you have such a different take on this than me haha.

4,2+4 is an AWESOME string, if only cuz Ferra gets to shoot off like a little munchkin missile. Its plus two on block, and has fantastic range. If my opponent is backing up from the NJP at the start of a game its a great way to catch them. If the opponent has no meter its a good way to set up a jump in as the push back is at just the right length.

You said b12 and f2 are good for breaking armour, f2 hits twice (throught armour) now!?!?!?!?

 

[Wetdoba]

I also want to say that b1212 is actually a great string, its a HKD that leaves them right at torrs feet, while every other combo ender either sends them full screen or isn't a hkd. good set up for a cross up, i use it more in Ruthless to get a PnG out.

Jeez, I almost want to make another guide just cuz you have such a different take on this than me haha.

4,2+4 is an AWESOME string, if only cuz Ferra gets to shoot off like a little munchkin missile. Its plus two on block, and has fantastic range. If my opponent is backing up from the NJP at the start of a game its a great way to catch them. If the opponent has no meter its a good way to set up a jump in as the push back is at just the right length.

You said b12 and f2 are good for breaking armour, f2 hits twice (throught armour) now!?!?!?!?

4 2+4 is also extremely good for creating space because with the pushback from point blank it leaves you at the perfect range to follow up with a Lackey D1 check or B12 stagger

 

[ChoseDeath]

Vicious f2 starter 41%

f2, f3, 4xxEX low Ferra, d3, b121xx Ferra toss.

Make sure d3 doesn't hit too late or else the last hit of b121 will whiff.

Can we add that to one meter midscreen combos? Easier than the NJP one for me.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

How the hell do you do anything with d2??? Been trying a little bit and nothing seems to connect after.

On hit you can link it into B1 but the timing is strict. Feels like a 1 frame link. Linking it to D1 is way easier.

I also want to say that b1212 is actually a great string, its a HKD that leaves them right at torrs feet, while every other combo ender either sends them full screen or isn't a hkd.

My main issue with it in Vicious is that it's suboptimal damage compared to ending with Boss Toss if Ferra is available. HKD is nice but nothing is guaranteed after that. Damage is guaranteed though and I don't believe a hard knockdown makes up for that.

4,2+4 is an AWESOME string, if only cuz Ferra gets to shoot off like a little munchkin missile. Its plus two on block, and has fantastic range. If my opponent is backing up from the NJP at the start of a game its a great way to catch them. If the opponent has no meter its a good way to set up a jump in as the push back is at just the right length

For these ranged situations I can't think of any reason why you would use it over Boss Toss though.

You said b12 and f2 are good for breaking armour, f2 hits twice (throught armour) now!?!?!?!?

Shit you're right! I thought it broke armor but apparently the second hit doesn't come out if the first hit is on armor. Fixed.

4 2+4 is also extremely good for creating space because with the pushback from point blank it leaves you at the perfect range to follow up with a Lackey D1 check or B12 stagger

4 xx BF4 creates the same pushback but does far more damage on hit, though you're at slight disadvantage on block. And on block 4 xx DB2 is more plus, so I still think I like these options better personally, and generally I don't use 4 at touching distance at all since you can't hit confirm it like you could e.g. B1,2,1, but 4,2+4 seems like a fine option in these situations too so I'll mention that.

Can we add that to one meter midscreen combos? Easier than the NJP one for me.

Adding it now.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

On hit you can link it into B1 but the timing is strict. Feels like a 1 frame link. Linking it to D1 is way easier.

My main issue with it in Vicious is that it's suboptimal damage compared to ending with Boss Toss if Ferra is available. HKD is nice but nothing is guaranteed after that. Damage is guaranteed though and I don't believe a hard knockdown makes up for that.

For these ranged situations I can't think of any reason why you would use it over Boss Toss though.

Shit you're right! I thought it broke armor but apparently the second hit doesn't come out if the first hit is on armor. Fixed.

4 xx BF4 creates the same pushback but does far more damage on hit, though you're at slight disadvantage on block. And on block 4 xx DB2 is more plus, so I still think I like these options better personally, but 4,2+4 seems like a fine option in these situations too so I'll mention that.

Adding it now.

If you're opponent has no meter, ans say you're converting if an aa, I think it's better to with b1212 into oki.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

If you're opponent has no meter, ans say you're converting if an aa, I think it's better to with b1212 into oki.

Yeah it's an option for players or situations where the oki is wanted/needed so I'll expand that string's usage usage to include this.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

That's all I'm going for, guides should cover all to most applications of the character.

I actually intend to do a full character guide sometime soon.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

That's all I'm going for, guides should cover all to most applications of the character.

I actually intend to do a full character guide sometime soon.

Sweet, I look forward to reading it.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Sweet, I look forward to reading it.

You won't be reading, you'll be watching.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

You won't be reading, you'll be watching.

Oh yeah, I considered doing a video guide at first, but then I couldn't update it if any future patches change things. Also got frustrated from doing retakes and I'm sick of video editing after the Test Your Backdash videos.

 

[MK Led]

Guide is looking even better after those updates

The only major things I think are missing now are the optimal meterless bnbs off f2 and njp (which I mentioned before) and mentioning under d1 that you can use it 3-6 times in a corner combo just to beef up your combo damage (sometimes for the optimal combo, sometimes just for when you happen to catch someone in the air and are looking for the simplest follow up that will do the most damage), and by the same token mention the corner combo cross over ji2~f2~f3~(5x d1)~4xxbf4.

Oh and now b1 is listed as 9 frames instead of 10.

 

[El_Rubio]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!

 

[Dil-Dog]

Sorry for the up, but recently got back into the game.

I used to play this game and mained vicious FT, but since i was finding hard to understand some core mechanics (mainly the inability to buffer special moves, I kinda focused on my main games.

I recently understood what was obscure for me and have started (even thanks to my sponsor interest) to get back into the game, and I read the vicious guide above.

Few things aren't clear for me, so I thought i'd ask, sorry if there are many questions, but i could say i'll make up for it since I'm a very dedicated player and rarely give up once I set a goal.



bp,towards +bk is this the punch into back sweep?

down + bp is down2?

away+bk is standing 4?

away + bk sans ferra which one is this?



Grab'n'stab can now combo from a hit, any useful combos with this for okizeme?


away+2 is the overhead?


BF3: Can this be done in neutral (both normal and ex) when Ferra isn't on Torr's back?
or is it only accessible ferra less on wakeup as ex?

dbf1 and ex dbf1 : How come you can only chooses sides if it's done on wakeup as ex?
non wakeup ex has a different animation and doesn't let you choose side, or am i missing something?

BF2 is only safe on block at fullscreen right?


F2: How would you use the cancel between first and second hit? could you for example bf3 to set some kind of fuzzy low to overhead on block?

B3: You can only get hard knockdown with ferra''s followup and xray off this or can you actually cancel and/or do something else?


D3: what do you mean with "stall"?

Thanks to whoever will take the time to answer : )

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

bp,towards +bk is this the punch into back sweep?

I think you're talking about 2, B4 (bp, away+bk).

down + bp is down2?

Yeah. The notation is:

1 = front punch
2 = back punch
3 = front kick
4 = back kick

away + bk sans ferra which one is this?

It becomes the Lackey sweep.

Grab'n'stab can now combo from a hit, any useful combos with this for okizeme?

I would just do whatever you can quickly hit confirm. B1,2 xx exDBF1 or B1,2,1 xx ex DBF1 should do the trick.

away+2 is the overhead?

Yupp.

BF3: Can this be done in neutral (both normal and ex) when Ferra isn't on Torr's back?
or is it only accessible ferra less on wakeup as ex?

No, he can't do any specials in neutral without Ferra. He can do BF3 and DBF1 on wakeup, either regular or enhanced.

dbf1 and ex dbf1 : How come you can only chooses sides if it's done on wakeup as ex?
non wakeup ex has a different animation and doesn't let you choose side, or am i missing something?

You got it. It's actually a different move with a different animation if you enhance it during wakeup. It becomes the Ruthless command grab.

BF2 is only safe on block at fullscreen right?

It's safe on block at any distance.

F2: How would you use the cancel between first and second hit? could you for example bf3 to set some kind of fuzzy low to overhead on block?

Yeah, you could do that, or you could cancel into the overhead toss or whatever. The idea being that cancelling F2 into an overhead is a quick low/overhead, it's tough for the opponent to block both, it's still safe, and there is no gap.

B3: You can only get hard knockdown with ferra''s followup and xray off this or can you actually cancel and/or do something else?

Yeah, you could go for the hard knockdown and follow that up with X-Ray oki if that's what you mean. Cancelling it into a special is good too, I do both.

D3: what do you mean with "stall"?

What I meant is that after ex DF2, Ferra is gone for a bit. So if you try to cancel into Boss Toss too quickly to end the combo, it won't work. You have to wait for her to come back. So D3 works really well to just juggle the opponent for a moment until Ferra comes back. Usually you will end an ex BF2 with something like D3, B121 xx DBF1.

 

[MK Led]

You got it. It's actually a different move with a different animation if you enhance it during wakeup. It becomes the Ruthless command grab.

It actually becomes the ruthless grab on wake-up regardless of whether you enhance it or not, but yea, only the enhanced version can side switch.

 

[MrHarambe]

d3xxExGrab doesn't tick on block. Only b1.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

d3xxExGrab doesn't tick on block. Only b1.

I thought b1 ticked with just lackey's grab? d1 also ticks across the variations

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

BF3: Can this be done in neutral (both normal and ex) when Ferra isn't on Torr's back?
or is it only accessible ferra less on wakeup as ex?

just and fyi on charge, this gives you a guaranteed toss on oki. Boss toss is best as it will catch every option of escaping. If you can get them to respect it you can start mixing up with oh and low tosses.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I wouldn't list a D2 starter combo as D2 is increeeedibly slow,

old af I know but I just played a few rounds the other day.

even tho we can't combo of a second f2 anymore, it provides good advantage on hit. Some times I'll end with this, short run up then do the meatiest of d2's. If they block it you're very plus, if not you can convert into a combo, easiest in the corner.

 

[MK Led]

old af I know but I just played a few rounds the other day.

even tho we can't combo of a second f2 anymore, it provides good advantage on hit. Some times I'll end with this, short run up then do the meatiest of d2's. If they block it you're very plus, if not you can convert into a combo, easiest in the corner.

Oh my god its been so long since I last played I forgot they took away the second f2 combos, how sad that day was. And true, that sounds like it can come in handy. I wish there was a character I liked as much as FT in SFV, the only character I like playing is Alex and not only is he a punk ass bitch he's also low tier as fuck. I miss FT a lot tbh