Tech WoWo vs KF's Slide

[Rickyraws]

Delayed F3 is blockable even after the sweep has finished. Even then the sweep will still go under it.
There's no guess involved, just mash the sweep once, jump back 2 there is no way KF can ever start offense.

3 ground rules for WoWo vs KF are:

Punish her long ass forward dash with 11
Mash the sweep after blocked slides
Dont let her jump

Of course it's blockable, that's what I meant by if the Wonder Woman does not mash d3. But if you do mash d3, even though you are crouching, you will not be considered blocking. Try it.

And while her d3 is ridiculous, and every WW should use it liberally, (not even sparingly) like 16 bit mentioned, it doesn't 'shut her down'. It may make her approach her 'offense' in a different way, but this would typically be a problem for her if she was a rushdown character who needs to mount an offense. Killer Frost is in no way shape or form a rushdown character that beats you with her pressure. In fact I'd say WW fills that void. KF has mixups and vortexes, but she's more of a reactionary character. Almost in the same vein as Flash being an excellent punisher, as the MU with Sinestro prior to patch was bad due to the fact that he could punish anything Sinestro did at mid screen. Frost's range, or lack thereof, keeps her from being labeled such.

Frost's multi hit projectile, full screen tracking special, parry and air dash are evidence of this. In the close range game, she can't come in and f3 her way through her problems. Sure. And d3 IS an effective tool, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't change the way she plays at all, but 'fucks up her post slide options' 'shuts her down' are things that may work in theory if you consider those as things she needs to do, and not CAN do. In THEORY WW may lose to Frost due to the fact that her second hit of her 33 is parryable, her over head whip is parryable, her b113 is parryable, her d12 is parryable, at certain distances her demigodess is punishable etc. etc. etc. but this is all nonsense. I'd say how much her d3 plays apart in her match vs Frost is better ascertained by actual play time with a variety of different Frost players (I can tell instantly without seeing the names whether the Frost I'm watching is PR Balrog or Khaotik, even though both matches were on similar stages and against the same character GA lol),

I used to idolize you, my dear F0xy, but as of right now, it looks more and more apparent that you're just another man to punish

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Of course it's blockable, that's what I meant by if the Wonder Woman does not mash d3. But if you do mash d3, even though you are crouching, you will not be considered blocking. Try it.

And while her d3 is ridiculous, and every WW should use it liberally, (not even sparingly) like 16 bit mentioned, it doesn't 'shut her down'. It may make her approach her 'offense' in a different way, but this would typically be a problem for her if she was a rushdown character who needs to mount an offense. Killer Frost is in no way shape or form a rushdown character that beats you with her pressure. In fact I'd say WW fills that void. KF has mixups and vortexes, but she's more of a reactionary character. Almost in the same vein as Flash being an excellent punisher, as the MU with Sinestro prior to patch was bad due to the fact that he could punish anything Sinestro did at mid screen. Frost's range, or lack thereof, keeps her from being labeled such.

Frost's multi hit projectile, full screen tracking special, parry and air dash are evidence of this. In the close range game, she can't come in and f3 her way through her problems. Sure. And d3 IS an effective tool, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't change the way she plays at all, but 'fucks up her post slide options' 'shuts her down' are things that may work in theory if you consider those as things she needs to do, and not CAN do. In THEORY WW may lose to Frost due to the fact that her second hit of her 33 is parryable, her over head whip is parryable, her b113 is parryable, her d12 is parryable, at certain distances her demigodess is punishable etc. etc. etc. but this is all nonsense. I'd say how much her d3 plays apart in her match vs Frost is better ascertained by actual play time with a variety of different Frost players (I can tell instantly without seeing the names whether the Frost I'm watching is PR Balrog or Khaotik, even though both matches were on similar stages and against the same character GA lol),

I used to idolize you, my dear F0xy, but as of right now, it looks more and more apparent that you're just another man to punish

You just typed a whole lot of words without saying anything.

 

[Rickyraws]

You just typed a whole lot of words without saying anything.

Welcome to the New York Post.

 

[ApocaLips]

snip

Dude, don't even bother. If they want to thing mashing sweep is a block infinite, let them. It's clear nothing is going to change their minds, even pointing out the options and tradeoffs in each possible scenario.

It's especially funny because MB f3 was never KF's go-to option after blocked slide.

 

[Rickyraws]

Dude, don't even bother. If they want to thing mashing sweep is a block infinite, let them. It's clear nothing is going to change their minds, even pointing out the options and tradeoffs in each possible scenario.

It's especially funny because MB f3 was never KF's go-to option after blocked slide.

It would actually help me out if I learn to use it more to be honest. And I've been playing her since launch. Definitely not MY got to option

 

[ApocaLips]

It would actually help me out if I learn to use it more to be honest. And I've been playing her since launch. Definitely not MY got to option

Well at -4 and the armor not coming out until frame 4/8 depending on who you talk to, it loses to the pokes it's designed to stuff. So never really was an amazing option.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Dude, don't even bother. If they want to thing mashing sweep is a block infinite, let them. It's clear nothing is going to change their minds, even pointing out the options and tradeoffs in each possible scenario.

It's especially funny because MB f3 was never KF's go-to option after blocked slide.

who is they?

The fact that you have to break down each scenario and guess is the point.

KF makes EVERYONE guess... but not everyone can make KF guess.

 

[ApocaLips]

who is they?

The fact that you have to break down each scenario and guess is the point.

KF makes EVERYONE guess... but not everyone can make KF guess.

I just listed a huge portion of the cast that does make KF guess.

And no, the OP's point was "you're fucked." That's not the same as 'you have options.' It's not even close to "fucked," and if it was, then there's a laundry list of characters who "fuck" KF even harder.

 

[UsedForGlue]

WoWo is far from Kabal

True, Wonder Woman is much more frightening.

I play off opponents mistakes and look for 6 frame reversals. She only has one opening in her offence, b1 staggering into anything other than d12 and even that is safe. From b1, b11, 33, etc. She has to be push blocked constantly whilst still guessing right, and that only eats your meter. Just wait until people find out she a cage with range and she exploits the meter system also. Its only time.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

True, Wonder Woman is much more frightening.

I play off opponents mistakes and look for 6 frame reversals. She only has one opening in her offence, b1 staggering into anything other than d12 and even that is safe. From b1, b11, 33, etc. She has to be push blocked constantly whilst still guessing right, and that only eats your meter. Just wait until people find out she a cage with range and she exploits the meter system also. Its only time.

You just made me want to main WW over any of the characters I play.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

True, Wonder Woman is much more frightening.

I play off opponents mistakes and look for 6 frame reversals. She only has one opening in her offence, b1 staggering into anything other than d12 and even that is safe. From b1, b11, 33, etc. She has to be push blocked constantly whilst still guessing right, and that only eats your meter. Just wait until people find out she a cage with range and she exploits the meter system also. Its only time.

she still falls victim to the games overall mechanics....
She doesn't gain the "random advantage" off of block strings.... and why would you ever push block her.... chip damage is nill in this game and meter is cheap (even still).

She isn't near the force Kabal was in MK. Hell... she won't even be the force Superman was pre-patch.

 

[trustinme]

she still falls victim to the games overall mechanics....
She doesn't gain the "random advantage" off of block strings.... and why would you ever push block her.... chip damage is nill in this game and meter is cheap (even still).

She isn't near the force Kabal was in MK. Hell... she won't even be the force Superman was pre-patch.

given the choice I'd rather fight pre patch supes than Wonder Woman but I guess I'm on my own with that one.

 

[Rude]

WW 7-3s the cast, you guys. Get on UK's level.

 

[Qwark28]

she still falls victim to the games overall mechanics....
She doesn't gain the "random advantage" off of block strings.... and why would you ever push block her.... chip damage is nill in this game and meter is cheap (even still).

She isn't near the force Kabal was in MK. Hell... she won't even be the force Superman was pre-patch.

because you wont get out of her pressure unless you do, you need to play foxy and see how stupid this character really is because there is no wonderwoman on his lvl or even near it other than Nivek who only plays offline

 

[Qwark28]

WW 7-3s the cast, you guys. Get on UK's level.

go sit on your couch and play online.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

because you wont get out of her pressure unless you do, you need to play foxy and see how stupid this character really is because there is no wonderwoman on his lvl or even near it other than Nivek who only plays offline

But i'll never have the same experience because there is lag, so you have to guess and not react.

Don't get me wrong. I've never once said she isn't good. But she isn't Kabal. She falls victim to how the game is. She has to chase everyone that doesn't need to come at her. That in itself is a disadvantage. You aren't ALWAYS going to get the first hit/combo whatever, and just magically get into SS and force people to you. People aren't always going to just give in and chase you either. Sinestro doesn't care if you sit full screen with a life lead, because you let him get trait. Then he can do all those sinestro things and even it out

I don't want people to overrate the character. F0xy is just that good. I truly believe that.

 

[Qwark28]

But i'll never have the same experience because there is lag, so you have to guess and not react.

Don't get me wrong. I've never once said she isn't good. But she isn't Kabal. She falls victim to how the game is. She has to chase everyone that doesn't need to come at her. That in itself is a disadvantage. You aren't ALWAYS going to get the first hit/combo whatever, and just magically get into SS and force people to you. People aren't always going to just give in and chase you either. Sinestro doesn't care if you sit full screen with a life lead, because you let him get trait. Then he can do all those sinestro things and even it out

I don't want people to overrate the character. F0xy is just that good. I truly believe that.

her plan is not shield stance and chasing people is not a disadvantage

thats like saying cage - jade is bad for cage cause he has to chase

she gets in fast. one knockdown is guaranteed , not pressure, but mixups and she has 4 way mixups off of most knockdowns, flip a damn coin because youre not defending against those.

with joker i feel like one read of mine is 11% and one of his is my lifebar due to how stupidly good this char is. leagues above 90% of the cast

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

her plan is not shield stance and chasing people is not a disadvantage

thats like saying cage - jade is bad for cage cause he has to chase

she gets in fast. one knockdown is guaranteed , not pressure, but mixups and she has 4 way mixups off of most knockdowns, flip a damn coin because youre not defending against those.

with joker i feel like one read of mine is 11% and one of his is my lifebar due to how stupidly good this char is. leagues above 90% of the cast

I agree man

But she isn't THAT much better. Just think about it. Everyone has that "Flip of the coin"... it is just how you can implement it. WW just has a bagillion ways to do it against everyone.

and it isn't at all like saying Cage Jade

its more like Cage SZ. She has to play super smart and patient to get her shit going, but once she does...

But if she loses the life lead... its hard to get her stuff going when someone else has their shit going.

anyway. We probably wont' ever have anyone as dedicated to WW use here over here. So we are basically talking in circles :S

 

[smokey]

I agree man

But she isn't THAT much better. Just think about it. Everyone has that "Flip of the coin"... it is just how you can implement it. WW just has a bagillion ways to do it against everyone.

and it isn't at all like saying Cage Jade

its more like Cage SZ. She has to play super smart and patient to get her shit going, but once she does...

But if she loses the life lead... its hard to get her stuff going when someone else has their shit going.

anyway. We probably wont' ever have anyone as dedicated to WW use here over here. So we are basically talking in circles :S

how is instant air demigodess patient and not braindead though?

 

[Qwark28]

I agree man

But she isn't THAT much better. Just think about it. Everyone has that "Flip of the coin"... it is just how you can implement it. WW just has a bagillion ways to do it against everyone.

and it isn't at all like saying Cage Jade

its more like Cage SZ. She has to play super smart and patient to get her shit going, but once she does...

But if she loses the life lead... its hard to get her stuff going when someone else has their shit going.

anyway. We probably wont' ever have anyone as dedicated to WW use here over here. So we are basically talking in circles :S

she is not hard to get in with a 12f + on block advancing move into frametraps, 43% meterless combos and not only unseeable 50/50s into vortexes but every single knockdown puts you in a setup for

F3
reverse f3
throw
33
B2
airdash crossup
crossup back to airdash


wonderwoman has no trouble ever getting in, her mobility is top 3 with iadg which checks front dashes, jumps and walking forward therefore putting an ice clone basically. theres also no chance of you getting past WW with those huge ass AAs in both stances, a better footsie tool than most of the time which is +, the only time shes - she can still whiff punish you (d12 into b113)

this character will always be better than a vortex character because they are not pressure walls who can guess wrong and punish you for it

did i mention that vs characters like joker she can throw out random b2s which you cannot reach, jump or forward dash because if you do you get hit and put in the vortex again?

honestly, all of us here in europe who play wonderwoman know her almost inside out due to foxy, we know what she can and cant do, very few characters can force her to respect a footsie game and even those characters either lose or go even with her

also, iadg is an unseeable moving wall which hits mid and is completely safe

 

[smokey]

she is not hard to get in with a 12f + on block advancing move into frametraps, 43% meterless combos and not only unseeable 50/50s into vortexes but every single knockdown puts you in a setup for

F3
reverse f3
throw
33
B2
airdash crossup
crossup back to airdash


wonderwoman has no trouble ever getting in, her mobility is top 3 with iadg which checks front dashes, jumps and walking forward therefore putting an ice clone basically. theres also no chance of you getting past WW with those huge ass AAs in both stances, a better footsie tool than most of the time which is +, the only time shes - she can still whiff punish you (d12 into b113)

this character will always be better than a vortex character because they are not pressure walls who can guess wrong and punish you for it

did i mention that vs characters like joker she can throw out random b2s which you cannot reach, jump or forward dash because if you do you get hit and put in the vortex again?

honestly, all of us here in europe who play wonderwoman know her almost inside out due to foxy, we know what she can and cant do, very few characters can force her to respect a footsie game and even those characters either lose or go even with her

also, iadg is an unseeable moving wall which hits mid and is completely safe

Ive not played foxy, but iadg is pretty much a safe way in against the entire cast, who have lesser 50/50s than her, and are at more risk trying to approach her anyway, so they are already setting themselves up for her offense by being cautious. Not that they can play any other way because you just get walked to the corner, as long as WW knows where she wants you then she can just approach safely and punish everything you could possibly want to push with a fat damage combo into all her silly options, while always having spare meter for armour and pushblock, and god forbid she needs to clash!

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

she is not hard to get in with a 12f + on block advancing move into frametraps, 43% meterless combos and not only unseeable 50/50s into vortexes but every single knockdown puts you in a setup for

F3
reverse f3
throw
33
B2
airdash crossup
crossup back to airdash


wonderwoman has no trouble ever getting in, her mobility is top 3 with iadg which checks front dashes, jumps and walking forward therefore putting an ice clone basically. theres also no chance of you getting past WW with those huge ass AAs in both stances, a better footsie tool than most of the time which is +, the only time shes - she can still whiff punish you (d12 into b113)

this character will always be better than a vortex character because they are not pressure walls who can guess wrong and punish you for it

did i mention that vs characters like joker she can throw out random b2s which you cannot reach, jump or forward dash because if you do you get hit and put in the vortex again?

honestly, all of us here in europe who play wonderwoman know her almost inside out due to foxy, we know what she can and cant do, very few characters can force her to respect a footsie game and even those characters either lose or go even with her

also, iadg is an unseeable moving wall which hits mid and is completely safe

THE OTG

 

[Rude]

go sit on your couch and play online.

Hey man, maybe we can do that together. Sound swell?

 

[RYX]

True, Wonder Woman is much more frightening.

I play off opponents mistakes and look for 6 frame reversals. She only has one opening in her offence, b1 staggering into anything other than d12 and even that is safe. From b1, b11, 33, etc. She has to be push blocked constantly whilst still guessing right, and that only eats your meter. Just wait until people find out she a cage with range and she exploits the meter system also. Its only time.

What about 33? There's a frame gap in between the hits; wouldn't that be a 'hole' in her game plan?

 

[UsedForGlue]

What about 33? There's a frame gap in between the hits; wouldn't that be a 'hole' in her game plan?

If Wonder Woman does B1, or B11 into 33 or another B1 or B2, she can be punished with a 6-7 d1 or standing 1, she can only stop interruptions with D12, which is safe and gives her a free dash into B1 again on hit.

She has other options, after 33, YOU CANNOT d1 or reversal her, she gets a D12 unless you dash back, but her B2 lasso grab will catch the back dash and reset the situation with a hard knockdown, so your other option is to block her D1, but that allows her to do another 33 or B1 string once you respect it.

Also, good WW players can convert B2, with 23 Dash D1, B113 Lasso.