Why is Erron Black a strong character?

[spideyct]

Until those people realize the shortcut with the 211 1+2.

that works local, but onlineis a different beast.
slide technique still works the best

 

[GrimJack]

I don't know why people feel that difficult. If you can do kung lao 112124 in mkx then the 212121 string is the same deal.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I feel like 21212 being difficult isn't really "gatekeeping" anything. It's a good string, but not essential to his success.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

"I think he plays MK11 the best out of everyone"-SonicFox

He isn't broke by any means but when played right and the right reads are made he can get some strong momentum going.

His B2 and B222 are unsafe, his LnL cancels are all unsafe. His F4 overhead is unsafe unless you trick them by spending bar. His slide is unsafe.
Zoning is by far not the strongest at least in 52 Card Pickup: he has several strings that shoot projectiles but only after a long animation which are mostly used on reads and far away since the start of all of them send him forward. His scudd is his best counterzoning tool but requires a bar to shoot.
His 21212 overhead is safe on block but if he slides before it's unsafe. It's also a bit harder to get out being a high starter.
His F32 has a huge gap that can be launched with flawless block. His D4 is god-like and his DoT is very strong. Wish every character was up to his level.

 

[magandi]

b2, b222 and f4 are safe. there is no way to punish these on block. lnl 3 is also safe when spaced correctly. lnl zoning is the ultimate round closer. even punishing slide is not always easy. there is just a million thing to look for against this character.

 

[Bliss]

I want to pick up Erron Black for my secondary (I main Sub-Zero).

Can someone tell me the main 3-4 combos to use for him? I can figure out the rest!

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I want to pick up Erron Black for my secondary (I main Sub-Zero).

Can someone tell me the main 3-4 combos to use for him? I can figure out the rest!

Just watch the Kitana Prime vs Hayate set from Summit of Time. Holy shit. It should be in their recent videos sometime tonight or tomorrow.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

b2, b222 and f4 are safe. there is no way to punish these on block. lnl 3 is also safe when spaced correctly. lnl zoning is the ultimate round closer. even punishing slide is not always easy. there is just a million thing to look for against this character.

I can punish them with many characters but I'm down with making them slightly more unsafe, maybe -13. I'd still play him. He isn't really good because of that it's that he uses the strings at the right times. I like his tools and is the only character that I feel is complete. Characters like D'Vorah, Kotal, Frost, Shao Kahn, Kung Lao and Raiden should be closer to his level. He doesn't really have anything game breaking but I agree he is A+ and is one of the best in MK11. It's that many characters are not built well for this game.
Kung Lao would be top tier but he is unsafe on everything and his only plus string is tripple high.
Kotal has serious wiff problems with 12 and 22 after pushback making him a ranged character only not to mention his Specials take a year to recover.
D'Vorah just doesn't have anything for this meta and is far too slow.
Frost has too many wiffing strings and highs.
Raiden is very unsafe and all mixups only work close up. His DB2 is very punishable.

 

[magandi]

no you can't punish b222 if he uses scud shot cancle. i'm also sure f4 can't be punished on block. he literally is busted because of these two moves.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

no you can't punish b222 if he uses scud shot cancle. i'm also sure f4 can't be punished on block. he literally is busted because of these two moves.

Hold on a second, busted? No sir he is not. A very good character yes. Do you realize how many characters have safe mixs? Usually one of the two(Oh/Low) is safe while the other isn't. I watched gunny punish EB F4 and the MB version.

Let me gove some examples: Scorpion can make all of his mixups safe, Sub zero has a safe low starter, Geras has a safe mix, Liu Kang has a safe low, Kotal has a safe low and overhead but he isn't top tier, Jax has safe mix up options as well as: Jacqui, Kung Lao, Raiden, on and on it goes.

A character is only busted when they have broke shit meaning game breaking tools that there are no options against. I'm starting to notice this trend of people bitching about 50/50s even though every character has guess tools in MK11. It's the being selective of which ones are acceptable that I have a problem with. If it had no guess then it would get very boring very quick.

 

[Arqwart]

I think it's extremely refreshing that the top characters in this game aren't egregiously broken despite the game being so new. Notably more powerful than their peers? Sure! Broken to the point of needing their kneecaps blown out with a shotgun in the next patch? Nope.

I dont see anyone that's MKX release Raiden tier yet. Overall a great starting spot for balance.

 

[magandi]

I watched gunny punish EB F4 and the MB version.

do you have a link and timestamp where he punishes it on block? i know it can be whiff punished but on block i haven't played anyone who could punish it.
i know erron is not broken but he is a little bit too good.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

do you have a link and timestamp where he punishes it on block? i know it can be whiff punished but on block i haven't played anyone who could punish it.
i know erron is not broken but he is a little bit too good.

I don't have a time stamp and as far as I know the slide is -15 the F4 is -8 amp is -10 with some pushback and they are the hardest to punish and only certain characters can. Like I said, those two could be -13 and I'd be fine with it.
The slide is punishable at -15.

But if his mix-ups where nerfed then literally everyone's should. He only gets combo from 21212 lnl cancel but no combo from his other mixs.
Compared to other characters who get full combo from there multiple mixes and insain KB damage on top. Sonya gets double mix in corner into 50% while Erron gets 26% of normal and 30% in corner as well as 36% off Krushing Blow.

I just think there are better characters with more tools. No doubt he is good and I'd be fine with him being punishable on F4 and more punishable on slide. But from what I'm seeing many characters are going even with him like that vid with Jax.

 

[Bliss]

We need diversity. That means characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Jade / Sindel etc. Along with other characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Kabal / Kung Lao etc.

Nobody was broken in MK9. Of course the top 3 characters were good; but, they also had their weaknesses.

All characters having the same chance to win is boring as hell.

I love playing low tiers in games. It makes it more motivating to win.

 

[AbeW]

Nah, a hardened MKX veteran like meself does not worry about Error Bung, 50/50s, none of that sht. That kinda worry is for weak mthrfkrs who thought MKX was so hard. However, i do keep a teleport handy (Raiden, Cetrion, etc) and i fry Error's stupidass.

 

[freerf245]

We need diversity. That means characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Jade / Sindel etc. Along with other characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Kabal / Kung Lao etc.

Nobody was broken in MK9. Of course the top 3 characters were good; but, they also had their weaknesses.

All characters having the same chance to win is boring as hell.

I love playing low tiers in games. It makes it more motivating to win.

wut

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

We need diversity. That means characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Jade / Sindel etc. Along with other characters in MK11 that are tier equivalent to MK9 Kabal / Kung Lao etc.

Nobody was broken in MK9. Of course the top 3 characters were good; but, they also had their weaknesses.

All characters having the same chance to win is boring as hell.

I love playing low tiers in games. It makes it more motivating to win.

I absolutely love your positivity.

But Kabal was literally the definition of broken.
And Cyrax wasn't far behind.

 

[magandi]

I don't have a time stamp and as far as I know the slide is -15 the F4 is -8 amp is -10 with some pushback and they are the hardest to punish and only certain characters can. Like I said, those two could be -13 and I'd be fine with it.
The slide is punishable at -15.

But if his mix-ups where nerfed then literally everyone's should. He only gets combo from 21212 lnl cancel but no combo from his other mixs.
Compared to other characters who get full combo from there multiple mixes and insain KB damage on top. Sonya gets double mix in corner into 50% while Erron gets 26% of normal and 30% in corner as well as 36% off Krushing Blow.

I just think there are better characters with more tools. No doubt he is good and I'd be fine with him being punishable on F4 and more punishable on slide. But from what I'm seeing many characters are going even with him like that vid with Jax.

how much did you play erron? i'm not so sure if you are fully aware of what he is capable of. he can also combo of b222 into rifle 21212 is not his only combo. also whiff punishing f32 into slide and puddle is one of the best whiff punish tools. and i'm 100% sure f4 is impossible to punish on block. prove me wrong. until then i will mindlessly throw it around from time to time. his mix ups after amp slide, which is part of his bnb, just outweights the slightly less dmg. jax is just not on his level. who cares if jax does like 10% more dmg. standing in puddle is way more dangerous.

 

[Tanno]

He got things, that the rest don't have. Fuck that character. He can mix you to death in every distance and height.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

how much did you play erron? i'm not so sure if you are fully aware of what he is capable of. he can also combo of b222 into rifle 21212 is not his only combo. also whiff punishing f32 into slide and puddle is one of the best whiff punish tools. and i'm 100% sure f4 is impossible to punish on block. prove me wrong. until then i will mindlessly throw it around from time to time. his mix ups after amp slide, which is part of his bnb, just outweights the slightly less dmg. jax is just not on his level. who cares if jax does like 10% more dmg. standing in puddle is way more dangerous.

He is my pocket. I know him well.
Yes 21212 isn't his only combo. That's not what I was saying, I said it's his only 50/50 into combo. The slide doesn't combo but has 21212 xx LnL 2/D+3 or Slide for overhead/low mix so if he hits LNL he gets combo or a one time only Krushing Blow off 21212.
What I was pointing out is that his F4 and Slide don't combo even though it's his main mix. Compared to Geras and many other characters who can do strong damage off mix. Geras can get 80% and up and everything he does is a mix or stagger or tick.
Errons F32 has a huge gap in it and I'm betting others will start punishing it once they get more familiar with the match up.

I think Jax is really slept on or being downplayed, both him and Jacqui are top tier no doubt and have tools many characters do not. I predict some top 8s in the near future.
But my point is Erron isn't broke so no need for Nerfs but I'd be fine with F4 and Slide being more punishable. He isn't dominating the tournament scene and many other characters are being used at his level: Geras, Cetrion(Dragons), Jacqui, Liu Kang, Jax, Sub Zero, Scorpion.

The definition of broke is MK9 Kabal/Cyrax. MK11 is so watered down compared to those older games and X. It blows my mind that many complained about 50/50s when in older games we had truly broke shit like HTB loops, Jailing Cancel pressure that loops, Unblockable setups, 200% resets, infinites many being on the same 5 characters.
So when someone says a character has a safe overhead and low that knocks them away for no combo while most the cast gets the same + 40-80% combo off them I simply don't agree it's broke.

 

[Hor_PeT]

He got things, that the rest don't have. Fuck that character. He can mix you to death in every distance and height.

Yes but Scorpion still has much more complaint threads about his teleport lol.

Top tiers have very good tools that's it. Until there is no full Erron Black in Top8 and only Erron Black wins it will be not a problem.
On casual mid-high level it is different though. Erron Black might dominate - but I can not say it as Erron Black is still not auto win - and not everyone likes his playstyle. I will pick him soon and decide if I like him or not (I like strong neutral play - but do not really like cheap stuff and Erron Black is cheap alert to me at first glance - I know I know - he is not lol). 211 1+2 helped me with the decision lol - I wanted to try him 1 week ago too but I was frustrated I can not play him properly without that string and rather dropped the idea.
Playing with him worst case give you better match up knowledge against him later so it is worth trying all the characters especially you want to fight against later.

On low level Scorpion's teleport dominates lol.

 

[Tanno]

Yes but Scorpion still has much more complaint threads about his teleport lol.

Top tiers have very good tools that's it. Until there is no full Erron Black in Top8 and only Erron Black wins it will be not a problem.
On casual mid-high level it is different though. Erron Black might dominate - but I can not say it as Erron Black is still not auto win - and not everyone likes his playstyle. I will pick him soon and decide if I like him or not (I like strong neutral play - but do not really like cheap stuff and Erron Black is cheap alert to me at first glance - I know I know - he is not lol). 211 1+2 helped me with the decision lol - I wanted to try him 1 week ago too but I was frustrated I can not play him properly without that string and rather dropped the idea.
Playing with him worst case give you better match up knowledge against him later so it is worth trying all the characters especially you want to fight against later.

On low level Scorpion's teleport dominates lol.

Got a friend, who's, also, a Erron main. Will ask him for MU XP later. Gotta rest. I'm beat due of my participation in local MK11 here. Ended Top 16 with Frost.