General/Other - Fisticuffs Why FC is bottom tier, and ways to save him

[countrypistol]

Why are they treading so damn lightly with Fisticuffs??? There are characters who have pressure that's 10000x better. I swear to god if Tempest and Kobu motherfucking Jutsu aren't nerfed when they're part of the beta, I will lose my shit.

That's the kicker isn't it? So far none of the problem characters have been featured in the beta, so we're all just guessing at the direction the game is heading. If Lao has a gap in his 11212 string (say 11212-4) and his ji2 hit box normalised, and Quan gets his hard to blockables removed, these nerfs to JC might not seem as extreme. As it stands, all they appear to be doing is giving the better characters more openings to armour through his pressure, and less ways to anti air (d4) problem jump ins like Lao's. Hopefully in the coming weeks we'll get a better idea if where the game is heading.

If it really looks that bad, then SFV is out in 3 weeks.

 

[Folux182]

This grab buff is for all variations.

At the moment, what Fisticuffs has got is a very slight reduction of Fistbump recovery (just 40 down from 44 according to the frame data in the beta) and speedbag startup to 10 down from 11. In exchange, he has lost his ability to special cancel b2 as a collateral damage from a SD nerf, and also his d4 is now -6 on block... Let's hope this is not definitive, because honestly, comparing the "buffs" and nerfs I would prefer him to stay the way he was.

Okay i dont think anybody is understanding me. When Fisticuffs is in his fistbump buff, his normal grabs turn into 17% grabs AS IF he was under 5%

 

[ismael4790]

Okay i dont think anybody is understanding me. When Fisticuffs is in his fistbump buff, his normal grabs turn into 17% grabs AS IF he was under 5%

Yes, when I wrote that, people was referring to red Johnny grab. Now it is confirmed what you say to be in the beta, the nice 17% grab with fistbump enabled no matter how much life you have.

For people who still don't know here's the video. However, Fisti is not getting (from what we can see now in the beta) this buff for free. His d4 is worse, and his b2 is not special cancelable. We will see how this ends up. He shouldn't pay for his buffs.

 

[zaccbarias]

I think he should have a nice little damage increase with his "hand" moves upon fistbump in addition to having increased chip damage(which would include his fireballs and nutpunch even though it is executed by inputting a "kick" button). i mean naturally it would hurt more if somebody punched you with brass knuckles on rather than off. haha. To be fair though, his kick moves shouldnt do more chip damage as he doesnt have brass on his feet. Which would mean more reliance on his punch moves, namely speedbag as it is variation specific as well as it is his string that uses more "hand" moves.

I think this would be fair and not be overpowered. Because for you to be able to fist bump, you would sacrifice a nut punch ender for *random string* that can be special cancelled into the buff. Speedbag does not have good range either so it would require you to either move slowly towards your opponent or run up to them which would have some sort of risk because of the armored wake ups in this game, also moving towards your opponent would start consuming the limited time the fistbump buff has. The only time this situation would be potentially "powerful" is when you get your opponent to the wall.

Im not asking for changes regarding the frames of the speedbag or fistbump so the gaps of the speedbag string would still be there.

What do you guys think? I think these are fair changes to ask.

 

[countrypistol]

Give him steel toe capped boots that he activates by clicking his heels together.

 

[ismael4790]

I think he should have a nice little damage increase with his "hand" moves upon fistbump in addition to having increased chip damage(which would include his fireballs and nutpunch even though it is executed by inputting a "kick" button). i mean naturally it would hurt more if somebody punched you with brass knuckles on rather than off. haha. To be fair though, his kick moves shouldnt do more chip damage as he doesnt have brass on his feet. Which would mean more reliance on his punch moves, namely speedbag as it is variation specific as well as it is his string that uses more "hand" moves.

I think this would be fair and not be overpowered. Because for you to be able to fist bump, you would sacrifice a nut punch ender for *random string* that can be special cancelled into the buff. Speedbag does not have good range either so it would require you to either move slowly towards your opponent or run up to them which would have some sort of risk because of the armored wake ups in this game, also moving towards your opponent would start consuming the limited time the fistbump buff has. The only time this situation would be potentially "powerful" is when you get your opponent to the wall.

Im not asking for changes regarding the frames of the speedbag or fistbump so the gaps of the speedbag string would still be there.

What do you guys think? I think these are fair changes to ask.

Yes, I never understood why Fistbump didnt't gave damage buff besides the chip damage, while other similar buffs in the game do.
He will be more scary with that.

And speedbag is really bad vs many characters as it is now, in terms of frames. Anyone can poke out very, very easily. Vs characters with 6 frame pokes the pressure it gaves is absolutely zero, and even with a bad poke you can interrupt the staggers of speedbag without difficulties, unless you have terrible reactions.

 

[I Am The LK]

Yes, I never understood why Fistbump didnt't gave damage buff besides the chip damage, while other similar buffs in the game do.
He will be more scary with that.

And speedbag is really bad vs many characters as it is now, in terms of frames. Anyone can poke out very, very easily. Vs characters with 6 frame pokes the pressure it gaves is absolutely zero, and even with a bad poke you can interrupt the staggers of speedbag without difficulties, unless you have terrible reactions.

Half of the buffs cage got are horrible or don't make a difference. Stunt double seems to get his mimics back around 6 seconds now. Big deal. fisticuffs got a buff with the startup frames and the chip buff is faster. But thats it? Nothing really changed. Fisticuffs is still garbage with alot of holes. Stunt double still without mimics doesn't do much else and has bad zoning. You can still duck his ex forceballs. Even if you block the first one. And that nice d4 nerf was a good fuck you present.

 

[dennycascade]

Is it just me or does speed bag have less pushback? I was playing vs cassie and i swear there was almost no pushback at all.

 

[ismael4790]

Is it just me or does speed bag have less pushback? I was playing vs cassie and i swear there was almost no pushback at all.

It is hard to tell, because we don't have a training mode. I feel speedbag a bit different too, but maybe it's just the effect of the new online making things look smoother.

Even if the pushback was improved (which is a must), speedbag would still need some frame adjustments. 10 startup and -3 on block as in the beta is still very bad, specially considering the tendency of improving pokes throughout the cast.