Why and how to fix better online play

[Ashesfall]

(first if there is a thread about this specific opinion feel free to delete this one)

i am normally a tekken player but i really like mkx.
we all know the netcode is not "great" in mkx and its almost impossible to do good combos.
now here is why tt2 has a better netcode for at least combos.
in tekken you can buffer inputs in animations. so the move came out at the very first frame.
mkx dont have that(on normals) so you have to do it manual at 1 frame, that is not possible online.

just do a 5-10 buffer window to all moves, so you can do at least your combos online.

(i have no local scene and if there will be no update i will have to drop mkx but i dont want to -.-)
hope dies last - game is still new so patches can help

NRS should also add search only 2+ or 3 bars (tekken has that it helps a lot)

i sound super negative about the game but that is not true i love it and i want to enjoy it at a playable state.

ps: sorry for my bad english

edit: ps4 player

 

[TotteryManx]

I'm willing to bet they are working hard to improve it right now. A lot of people are complaining so there is no way to ignore it. KI wasn't that great at launch either, but it was patched to be great. Hopefully NRS can pull off the same.

 

[Mr Suplex]

I'm glad I'm not alone on this. A few of my friends said the game played well online, so I picked it up and was horrified at how bad the input lag was. They say they don't notice it, but I'm wondering if they just aren't very sophisticated fighting game players and don't notice what I am talking about. I can barely land basic combos online that I nail 90% of the time offline, and its pretty discouraging. I come from a long history of playing Street Fighter 4 online, and although not perfect, its online play was significantly smoother than the sluggish mess I've seen so far with MKX.

Has there actually been word that they are trying to fix it? I almost didn't buy this game after how bad MK9 was online, and so I'm obviously very worried that I just wasted $60.

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

It is odd that this game doesn't let you buffer normals at all considering Injustice let you buffer them out of blockstun, though if I recall correctly, you could not buffer normals out of recovery for whatever reason. And I believe you could buffer jump normals during jump startup as well? That implies that the decision to exclude buffers on normals was very deliberate, especially with how easy it is to buffer reversals. I do hope that decision is changed, if possible. Things are hard enough to punish offline.

 

[THTB]

Tekken's netcode is actually no better. In fact, the way they approached online play in the first place is actually horrendous both online and offline, since they chose to increase the innate input delay a couple frames higher to slightly compensate for the delay you'll experience online. What this adversely affects is being able to react to things you previously could react to.

MKX's netcode is a lot better than Tekken's, when you know the secret behind why TTT2 plays "great". On the better connections I've played, the game feels very close to offline play. Meanwhile, in Tekken, I knew things felt extremely off every time I played.

 

[Ashesfall]

Tekken's netcode is actually no better. In fact, the way they approached online play in the first place is actually horrendous both online and offline, since they chose to increase the innate input delay a couple frames higher to slightly compensate for the delay you'll experience online. What this adversely affects is being able to react to things you previously could react to.

MKX's netcode is a lot better than Tekken's, when you know the secret behind why TTT2 plays "great". On the better connections I've played, the game feels very close to offline play. Meanwhile, in Tekken, I knew things felt extremely off every time I played.

lol let this not here tekken players that play BOTH like me aris rip rickstah and everyone else (i just mention them so you can check there streams and see it by your own)
edit: see yourself http://www.twitch.tv/avoidingthepuddle/v/4103051?t=1h47m46s (last aris mkx stream)
ZERO ISSUES lol
you really dont know what you are talking about lol

(in tekken you will never have a freeze in a game besides a 1 bar maybe - because of buffering you can do all combos in tekken even if there is a 1-3 frame lag^^)

i have 10k + games on tekken tag2 online and about 150 mkx games online now. if anyone ever say mkx has a better netcode he is just a troll (i can only talk about ps4 maybe pc or xbox is better dont know)

just the fact that i can search only 5bars in tekken is a huge advantage just that alone!

edit: oh and i am not defending a game because i love both
-----------
backto topic:
that you can buffer specials but no normals also seams odd and not necessary. punishing in mkx is so much harder its sometime like a justframe input. (justframes besides muscle memory is not possible online, there is no game with zero frame lag)

 

[Deleted member 9158]

MKX has a better netcode than MK9 did at launch imo. I remember almost every game being a slide show for me in MK9, while it has not been the same in the new game. While MKX's net code is still bad, I have faith they will improve it.

Then again, it hasn't even been a week, perhaps everything still needs to settle.

 

[Tony at Home]

I would definitely like an option to search by bars. Green only please.

When I can get a match in green, everything runs smoothly. And there's plenty of greens out there- no reason I should ever have to settle for 2 bars instead of 3. It just needs to be less of a painful search for me.

There's also the issue where in player vs player search, the connection bars don't seem to display, meaning I have to go search through player rooms for a 3 bar connection that I can konfirm. I'd like to see this fixed.

 

[Ashesfall]

just to be clear i give NRS time to fix this sure but mk9 and injustice makes us all afraid that this wont happen
(i played both and droped the games as soon as i was done with single player - it was so bad online)

 

[Mr Suplex]

I have not played Tekken online, but I can tell you with confidence that Street Fighter 4 played much more smoothly than MKX. I need to try more matches to really decide for certain, but my first few were very alarming.

 

[Barrogh]

There are always two camps on matters such as these. Some like buffering in strings, during blockstun and the like, others will argue that ability to screw up a punishment is a part of the game and it helps determining who is better player.

On on hand, we have online issues to sidestep, on the other hand online will remain online (see: reactability of mixups), but now we effectively building the game (and dare I say, balancing it) around distorted version of its gameplay...

 

[Mr Suplex]

What are the possible connection levels? I've seen 2 yellow bars, 1 red bar, and all grey bars. Is there a magical 3 green bars I should be shooting for? If so, how can I optimize my Xbox for this type of connection? I used to get the "best" connection all the time in Street Fighter 4 on my Xbox 360.

I have a wired, reserved IP connection with an open NAT. It is 100 down / 10 up and I do not lag in any other games or applications. Are there certain ports I should be forwarding? I'm currently using the Xbox as a DMZ Server, but if port forwarding is a better method I can switch.

Thanks for the help. I think this game has tons of potential but the input lag is currently a big obstacle for enjoying the game.

 

[EdFig81]

Is it me or maybe it's time fighting games get open betas like halo Or other big games.

Having an open beta the developers can see the latency and maybe try to repair it as time goes on and the retail date drops.

Ki is a game i like I had no big issues with ki on xbone outside of a few desyncs in the start. I consider ki an open beta for people that bought ki day 1 and imo they improved the net code due to the game imo being still in development until the end of season 1 (And imo season 2 means it's still in development)

Also I have 150mbs down and 150mbs up via Verizon fios I played MKX on both xbone and ps4 (not pc yet as I am waiting on my new videocard evga nividia 970 to arrive ) and I have had games where I felt almost no lag and could do most of my combos minus my execution issue with these shitty next gen pads & my old hands heh.

I hope they fix it though but I can imagine it's hard with stupid people who go online via one of the following:
1) wifi - no game should ever be played via wifi I care nothing about your router being next to your console. In addition I do not care if u have a dual channel wifi router you can't account for interference , regardless if your console is the only device on thar channel . Smfh

1A) wIfi shared which is ten times worst regardless of the players connection due to wifi bandwidth limitations and mom , dad, daughter etc all watching netflix /streaming off that 1 wifi channel. Also all the devices connected on that network for devices (smart phones, tablets & other stuff sucking up limited bandwidth)


2) using their shitty cell phone for service via hopspots tether. U may have a good speed test but latency is an issue due to ping. Verizon and ATNT maybe the only providers in the USA that can handle online a bit for these consoles but ping wise it's not good regardless of what your ping tests says imo. In addition companies have been caught in the past using bs to improve their scores when u run the speed test app on your phone.

3) having Internet shared with the house and everyone is downloading some torrentz, watching netflix & their devices (smart phone, ipod, chrome cast etc) & 1 player is maxing out that 1mb DSL plan
4) sometimes u have no option for the Internet you have. I am blessed as i have fios and if I wanted to switch I would just go to cable vision.


Suggestion @colt @tylerlansdown would it ever be possible to have a speed test done for both ping, download & upload? i believe the new consoles may run a speed test and if so can those that get bad detection/ results be advised the same way xbox does with open nat, moderate or strick? I am also aware of the speed/ connection bars I see online in mkx but as of now they load very slow and I have seen full bars in new york under time Warner lag with no shared Internet so their is an issue. This issue is also annoying players that do care about competition and just play for fun. Heard bitching alot playing since launch not to mention this will hurt the game for those that don't travel to events which is the majority of the customers that bought mkx.

I doubt it will change everything but at least maybe it can keep them off line but that's a hell of a thing to ask a company that males money to do. I am asking to deny them online or maybe send them to a different server where they can play those other slow Internet people.

 

[Mr Suplex]

Still wondering is grey bars the worst connection? Is 3 green the best? Does anyone ever get 3 green? Most of my matches are grey, with the occasional 2 bar yellow. I have never seen a green in 25+ opponents.

 

[EdFig81]

Still wondering is grey bars the worst connection? Is 3 green the best? Does anyone ever get 3 green? Most of my matches are grey, with the occasional 2 bar yellow. I have never seen a green in 25+ opponents.

Green all bars are the best to my knowledge

 

[Mr Suplex]

Thanks Edfig. How can I never be getting this type of connection? Are others consistently getting green connections? Ever?

I'm close to giving up on this game because its just not playable online.

 

[Ashesfall]

There are always two camps on matters such as these. Some like buffering in strings, during blockstun and the like, others will argue that ability to screw up a punishment is a part of the game and it helps determining who is better player.

On on hand, we have online issues to sidestep, on the other hand online will remain online (see: reactability of mixups), but now we effectively building the game (and dare I say, balancing it) around distorted version of its gameplay...

tekken is way slower (fastes normal move 10frames) and you wont see any pro gamer (korea has the best tekken player) punish everything perfect. this argue in an online time we live in is outdated.

 

[sars]

Is it me or maybe it's time fighting games get open betas like halo Or other big games.

Having an open beta the developers can see the latency and maybe try to repair it as time goes on and the retail date drops.

Ki is a game i like I had no big issues with ki on xbone outside of a few desyncs in the start. I consider ki an open beta for people that bought ki day 1 and imo they improved the net code due to the game imo being still in development until the end of season 1 (And imo season 2 means it's still in development)

Also I have 150mbs down and 150mbs up via Verizon fios I played MKX on both xbone and ps4 (not pc yet as I am waiting on my new videocard evga nividia 970 to arrive ) and I have had games where I felt almost no lag and could do most of my combos minus my execution issue with these shitty next gen pads & my old hands heh.

I hope they fix it though but I can imagine it's hard with stupid people who go online via one of the following:
1) wifi - no game should ever be played via wifi I care nothing about your router being next to your console. In addition I do not care if u have a dual channel wifi router you can't account for interference , regardless if your console is the only device on thar channel . Smfh

1A) wIfi shared which is ten times worst regardless of the players connection due to wifi bandwidth limitations and mom , dad, daughter etc all watching netflix /streaming off that 1 wifi channel. Also all the devices connected on that network for devices (smart phones, tablets & other stuff sucking up limited bandwidth)


2) using their shitty cell phone for service via hopspots tether. U may have a good speed test but latency is an issue due to ping. Verizon and ATNT maybe the only providers in the USA that can handle online a bit for these consoles but ping wise it's not good regardless of what your ping tests says imo. In addition companies have been caught in the past using bs to improve their scores when u run the speed test app on your phone.

3) having Internet shared with the house and everyone is downloading some torrentz, watching netflix & their devices (smart phone, ipod, chrome cast etc) & 1 player is maxing out that 1mb DSL plan
4) sometimes u have no option for the Internet you have. I am blessed as i have fios and if I wanted to switch I would just go to cable vision.


Suggestion @colt @tylerlansdown would it ever be possible to have a speed test done for both ping, download & upload? i believe the new consoles may run a speed test and if so can those that get bad detection/ results be advised the same way xbox does with open nat, moderate or strick? I am also aware of the speed/ connection bars I see online in mkx but as of now they load very slow and I have seen full bars in new york under time Warner lag with no shared Internet so their is an issue. This issue is also annoying players that do care about competition and just play for fun. Heard bitching alot playing since launch not to mention this will hurt the game for those that don't travel to events which is the majority of the customers that bought mkx.

I doubt it will change everything but at least maybe it can keep them off line but that's a hell of a thing to ask a company that males money to do. I am asking to deny them online or maybe send them to a different server where they can play those other slow Internet people.

I don't think they could deny people from playing online, people pay for psn and xbox live. If this did happen though I would be on the forums day one cause those post would be epic.

 

[XBroken13]

Wow this is so good to read. I thought maybe it was just me experiencing this. I recently switched to Kung Lao and after labbing with him to learn some of his combos, his moves, options, etc., and a few good basic bnbs I went online and was just horrified that I couldn't even get a simple X, X, Spin, jump kick, dive kick. 90% of the time I couldn't even get the jump kick to land, I would end up jumping over them.. thats if the spin even came out at all. It's just terrible that most of my matches devolve into the opponent standing still holding block doing the same 2 or 3 moves, uppercuts, and random or wake-up x-ray for big damage and winning while I'm trying to put in all this work to actually have a good match and I can't help but to get frustrated. I would love to find an offline group to play with because I'm so close to just quitting but I really don't want to because I'm having a lot of fun with the game so far. Like a lot of people in here, I'm sure, I grew up playing MK and SF and my love for fighting games really took off in SF: 3S and into SF4/USF4. I am constantly reading, watching videos, studying matches, etc., and when I jump on MK X I just feel like I don't even know what to do because I can't do what I know I should be able to and it throws my entire game off even to the point where I start making bad decisions.

Sorry for the long post but it just feels good to know that it's not me. I really thought that I either had it all wrong and I'm just the worst fighting game player ever or I just don't understand MK and never will and I was going to get rid of it and get something else and I really don't want to.

 

[XBroken13]

I also think that they should add a lag simulation in practice like in USF4 and UMvC3 so at least maybe we can practice for online combos and see what works and what doesn't or adapt to the input lag but there isn't even an option for that. I'm not saying that they shouldn't fix or attempt to fix the online issues as best they can but it would at least help for now. I'm really tempted to have my brother jump on his Xb1 and get into an online game with me and just let me lab that way to get used to dealing with the online environment and maybe I can adapt.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I don't think the Bar indicator of ping built into the game is ever accurate; or it is rarely accurate if at all. Ping is the big thing with online fighting games, but also yes, not using wireless is huge. Hopefully they will indeed work on it. Even just navigating the online menus is brutal

 

[Sultani]

One thing most people dont understand when they say things like "X game is great on line so why cant game Y be great too?" Is that the netcode is limited by the engine the game is built it.

KI uses HEX. SF4 has its own engine. MKX uses UE3. Different engines have different limitations, or so im told, and most of the ue3 online games seem to be bad.

 

[Krackatoa]

One thing most people dont understand when they say things like "X game is great on line so why cant game Y be great too?" Is that the netcode is limited by the engine the game is built it.

KI uses HEX. SF4 has its own engine. MKX uses UE3. Different engines have different limitations, or so im told, and most of the ue3 online games seem to be bad.

The game engine has nothing to do with netcode. How you design the game's systems in engine are important. This is normally stuff you flesh out early in development. Nothing is stopping NRS from making good netcode, except time and money.

 

[dribirut]

Anyone defending this netcode or making excuses for it should be ashamed of themselves..

 

[kabelfritz]

i wonder if some people even know what netcode is...