Discussion Why Alien Should Be Banned.

[Tweedy]

I know you've probably been corrected but I have to point out how ludicrous this is. B3 is -9 but if done anywhere except right next to the opponent its safe. Tail flip is only punished by 3 or 4 people. His D4 is the same as B3, do it max range. F13 is safe and can be canceled into mixups that are safe as well(provided they aren't EX). Even stuff that is supposed to be punishable like EX Tail flip isnt because of how bad blockstun works in this game. She is not super safe but nowhere near an unsafe character.

The exception is Tarkatan with the OS but Tarkatan sucks and you shouldn't be playing her anyway.

It's not ludicrous at all. What's ludicrous is non-Alien players thinking that it's practical to constantly mix people up with F4 and B3 in the neutral. Despite their range they are still not fast moves. People will whiff punish you with a jump in, hit you before your move hits them with an 11 frame move, etc. It's more practical to work your way in and mix people up in the pocket.

The blockstun point with EX tail flip is just user error. We're talking about a 200k qualifier.

I can't even take this discussion seriously. You literally have to practice the punish for 5 minutes to get it down. I also play Kotal Khan, and i'm tired of people saying that his swords aren't punishable. When I play good players they do punish everything. If you haven't done your homework, that's on you. Anyone who plays these characters, will be punished when competing for a spot at the ESL finals.

Edit: Also, i'm sorry that my DOWN FOUR, that whiffs up close and is -12, and sometimes guarantees nothing besides another D4 or snag, is hard to full combo punish. We're talking about a poke, man. You block it, you get pressure. I'm going for 3% and possible pressure. Please man.

Please give me Cage's(Cassie and Johnny), Kung Lao's, Kung Jin's, Shinnok's, Kotal's, Predator's, D'vorah's, Jax's, Goro's, Sonya's. I'd much rather have a D4 that's faster and always guarantees something. Alien's D4 is not a problem.

I'd also like to note that I know that Goro's and Predator's D4 do not always guarantee pressure, but on Alien they would. I'm just talking about the D4s specifically.

 

[IROC]

The moment pig gets bodied by alien in tournament setting and goes and deletes his previous comments in this thread..

 

[Colest]

I find funny how i said fine, let it rock and within a week the community came to a realuzation how broken ice clone was a week later

I was with you for the Alien videos but I mean come on. This thread alone exemplifies that framing an issue in a certain light will win over a lot of hearts on TYM. Had anyone, yourself included, taken a few days to thoroughly lab clone and see all the egregious shit that can go through it then I doubt Sub would have been nerfed so quickly. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth here.

 

[Jynks]

I was with you for the Alien videos but I mean come on. This thread alone exemplifies that framing an issue in a certain light will win over a lot of hearts on TYM. Had anyone, yourself included, taken a few days to thoroughly lab clone and see all the egregious shit that can go through it then I doubt Sub would have been nerfed so quickly. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth here.

 

[The Farmer]

I've come to notice that when ever high level players say, "the probability of consistently pulling this off is low" they find a way to do said move consistently. Once something is found the highly skilled WILL FIND A WAY. Never fails.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

GM isn't trash.

 

[Cyanide87]

Alien shouldn't be banned at all, but these hitbox issues should be fixed. I'm sure no one would want to lose a game because of a random move in a string whiffing.

 

[GAV]

The ideal is that Aliens gets hot-fixed. No ridiculous nerfs. Just remove some of the ridiculous stuff Zoidberg mentioned through frame data recovery.

I get where Sonic Fox is coming from too. He's got some crazy stuff with Alien. He finds game-breaking stuff with a lot of characters, but the rise he's going to get out of the crowd with his Alien will no doubt be insane. Always the ultimate showman, he's the only pro that can momentarily turn MK into Tony Hawk. To do it on the big stage is the best. The hotfixes wouldn't affect Sonic Fox as long as they're mild. He'll still be able to do what he does.

I just don't want an Alien vs Alien tournament. Tanya vs Tanya was whack.

 

[God Confirm]

acting like Sonic needs Alien to dominate is crazy. Alien isn't even the strongest character in the game atm, glitchy or not. Even if he was, he's proved himself by whopping ass with Ermac, Erron, and Kitana

 

[Colest]

GM isn't trash.

Who said GM was trash? I simply said people didn't bother to lab clone, which is undoubtedly true. Brady was showing on stream the other day how F/T can literally just combo through the clone.

 

[GAV]

It's not ludicrous at all. What's ludicrous is non-Alien players thinking that it's practical to constantly mix people up with F4 and B3 in the neutral. Despite their range they are still not fast moves. People will whiff punish you with a jump in, hit you before your move hits them with an 11 frame move, etc. It's more practical to work your way in and mix people up in the pocket.

The blockstun point with EX tail flip is just user error. We're talking about a 200k qualifier.

I can't even take this discussion seriously. You literally have to practice the punish for 5 minutes to get it down. I also play Kotal Khan, and i'm tired of people saying that his swords aren't punishable. When I play good players they do punish everything. If you haven't done your homework, that's on you. Anyone who plays these characters, will be punished when competing for a spot at the ESL finals.

Edit: Also, i'm sorry that my DOWN FOUR, that whiffs up close and is -12, and sometimes guarantees nothing besides another D4 or snag, is hard to full combo punish. We're talking about a poke, man. You block it, you get pressure. I'm going for 3% and possible pressure. Please man.

Please give me Cage's(Cassie and Johnny), Kung Lao's, Kung Jin's, Shinnok's, Kotal's, Predator's, D'vorah's, Jax's, Goro's, Sonya's. I'd much rather have a D4 that's faster and always guarantees something. Alien's D4 is not a problem.

I'd also like to note that I know that Goro's and Predator's D4 do not always guarantee pressure, but on Alien they would. I'm just talking about the D4s specifically.

 

[BigMilk]

Guys alien is fine, only one person is winning w him


In related news Aquaman was fine and so was kenshi mk9. All fair and balanced because only one person is doing well w them


#WORSTLOGICEVERRRRRRRR

Man, that was a good one lol

 

[GAV]

acting like Sonic needs Alien to dominate is crazy. Alien isn't even the strongest character in the game atm, glitchy or not. Even if he was, he's proved himself by whopping ass with Ermac, Erron, and Kitana

No one is saying Sonic Fox needs anything, but showing off tech with new characters is always hype for him and all the fans.

Beyond messing with Tweedy being hilarious, I don't really want him banned. I just don't want another Alien vs Alien tournament, especially not at the big one. Its not fun to watch and it makes all of us look foolish.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Who said GM was trash? I simply said people didn't bother to lab clone, which is undoubtedly true. Brady was showing on stream the other day how F/T can literally just combo through the clone.

Wakeup DP said that.

 

[Wetdoba]

It's WAY too soon to call a character broken, until we see only aliens WIN most major top 8's over the next 2 years then maybe we should consider a ban. If the winners are not exclusively sonicfox.

Lol like people will still be putting up with this shitty game with absolutely zero consistancy for 2 more years and no patches or fixes for all the stupid bugs in this game. If the last patch we got was the last of the support this game will die well before it, people will not put up with this games bullshit for that long. Capcom has proven they can make a legitimate fighting game with a consistant set of rules every character follows that actuslly makes sense and functions properly, NRS has not, and will not, because they do not care. NRS is in the business of making money, not making fighting games. They had the opportunity to fix this game when they re released it after a year and they didnt, its not going to happen now, like 16 bit said earlier, they are done with this game

 

[Colest]

Wakeup DP said that.

Oh. My mistake.

 

[GAV]

Lol like people will still be putting up with this shitty game with absolutely zero consistancy for 2 more years and no patches or fixes for all the stupid bugs in this game. If the last patch we got was the last of the support this game will die well before it, people will not put up with this games bullshit for that long. Capcom has proven they can make a legitimate fighting game with a consistant set of rules every character follows that actuslly makes sense and functions properly, NRS has not, and will not, because they do not care. NRS is in the business of making money, not making fighting games. They had the opportunity to fix this game when they re released it after a year and they didnt, its not going to happen now, like 16 but said earlier, they are done with this game

Capcom did well with both SFIV and SFV, but the failings of both games can't be ignored. SFIV's floaty physics taken from the EX series turned away a lot of veteran SFII and SFIII characters. SFV returned to the old SFII physics, but they haven't added anything groundbreaking. The additions include no chip deaths, invincible back-dashes, easier links, and the V stuff. Now, SFV is a return to the old - making it exponentially better than SFIV - and its SF - so its great, but these addition, albeit favorable ones, are gimmicks. We essentially have an easier SFII with updated graphics, netcode, new characters, and a few new gimmicks to boot. MKX, on the other hand, combined the best from the classic and new to make MK9. There's so much hidden tech in it. When choosing an SFV character, just pick the meta you can see yourself in. Execution doesn't even exist as a forethought and as an afterthought its just - that was easy. Then, from MK9 to Injustice to MKXL - even more of this nuanced tech was added. It makes it so that you either need to be extremely special as a player, have a circle of knowledgeable players who fills you in, or be a character specialist to get any good. I hear now that Kotal Kahn is so execution easy, but early on he was considered execution heavy by the majority. The difference from then till now is that the tech is out there. Everyone knows to go neutral before his F2 and B1 and you can pull off what you couldn't before. Tech like that is out there for everyone. Recently, someone has filled me in on some Takeda tech that blew my mind. (Not mine to give, so don't ask.) Now, I'm convinced that there is tech like that for everyone. Run cancels are a big part of this tech and all the vets understand this, but then Sonic Fox makes an Erron Black video that shows that there is an understanding of how run cancels work that goes well beyond that of the average veteran. To simplify, understanding Street Fighter V is so easy that any caveman can do it - while understanding MKX involves knowing secret tech.

MKX captures the old arcade competitive feel with not everyone knowing the same things. With SFV, everyone knows the same and execution is easy - so its not about what you know. Its just about what you do. In my mind, the depth of knowledge needed - the secrets - makes MKX a much better playing experience. Players in MKX are unique in what they know. That kind of uniqueness only exists through play-styles in SFV. In MKX, play-styles are dictated by what you know as a precursor to who you are as a player.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Oh. My mistake.

Nah, i should've quoted him lol. No worries.

 

[HomeLee1121]

Alien isn't even the strongest character in the game atm

 

[Eldriken]

Capcom did well with both SFIV and SFV, but the failings of both games can't be ignored. SFIV's floaty physics taken from the EX series turned away a lot of veteran SFII and SFIII characters. SFV returned to the old SFII physics, but they haven't added anything groundbreaking. The additions include no chip deaths, invincible back-dashes, easier links, and the V stuff. Now, SFV is a return to the old - making it exponentially better than SFIV - and its SF - so its great, but these addition, albeit favorable ones, are gimmicks. We essentially have an easier SFII with updated graphics, netcode, new characters, and a few new gimmicks to boot. MKX, on the other hand, combined the best from the classic and new to make MK9. There's so much hidden tech in it. When choosing an SFV character, just pick the meta you can see yourself in. Execution doesn't even exist as a forethought and as an afterthought its just - that was easy. Then, from MK9 to Injustice to MKXL - even more of this nuanced tech was added. It makes it so that you either need to be extremely special as a player, have a circle of knowledgeable players who fills you in, or be a character specialist to get any good. I hear now that Kotal Kahn is so execution easy, but early on he was considered execution heavy by the majority. The difference from then till now is that the tech is out there. Everyone knows to go neutral before his F2 and B1 and you can pull off what you couldn't before. Tech like that is out there for everyone. Recently, someone has filled me in on some Takeda tech that blew my mind. (Not mine to give, so don't ask.) Now, I'm convinced that there is tech like that for everyone. Run cancels are a big part of this tech and all the vets understand this, but then Sonic Fox makes an Erron Black video that shows that there is an understanding of how run cancels work that goes well beyond that of the average veteran. To simplify, understanding Street Fighter V is so easy that any caveman can do it - while understanding MKX involves knowing secret tech.

MKX captures the old arcade competitive feel with not everyone knowing the same things. With SFV, everyone knows the same and execution is easy - so its not about what you know. Its just about what you do. In my mind, the depth of knowledge needed - the secrets - makes MKX a much better playing experience. Players in MKX are unique in what they know. That kind of uniqueness only exists through play-styles in SFV. In MKX, play-styles are dictated by what you know as a precursor to who you are as a player.

I thought backdashes in SFV were only throw immune? I swear I remember reading that they didn't give them full invincibility because they didn't want it being like SFIV.

 

[GAV]

 

[GAV]

I thought backdashes in SFV were only throw immune? I swear I remember reading that they didn't give them full invincibility because they didn't want it being like SFIV.

They may have changed it since launch, but it was very clear early on. It was very short, but I remember slipping a lot of DP's this way. When you play SF as long as I have, when the DP is coming becomes a very easy read.

 

[Wetdoba]

Capcom did well with both SFIV and SFV, but the failings of both games can't be ignored. SFIV's floaty physics taken from the EX series turned away a lot of veteran SFII and SFIII characters. SFV returned to the old SFII physics, but they haven't added anything groundbreaking. The additions include no chip deaths, invincible back-dashes, easier links, and the V stuff. Now, SFV is a return to the old - making it exponentially better than SFIV - and its SF - so its great, but these addition, albeit favorable ones, are gimmicks. We essentially have an easier SFII with updated graphics, netcode, new characters, and a few new gimmicks to boot. MKX, on the other hand, combined the best from the classic and new to make MK9. There's so much hidden tech in it. When choosing an SFV character, just pick the meta you can see yourself in. Execution doesn't even exist as a forethought and as an afterthought its just - that was easy. Then, from MK9 to Injustice to MKXL - even more of this nuanced tech was added. It makes it so that you either need to be extremely special as a player, have a circle of knowledgeable players who fills you in, or be a character specialist to get any good. I hear now that Kotal Kahn is so execution easy, but early on he was considered execution heavy by the majority. The difference from then till now is that the tech is out there. Everyone knows to go neutral before his F2 and B1 and you can pull off what you couldn't before. Tech like that is out there for everyone. Recently, someone has filled me in on some Takeda tech that blew my mind. (Not mine to give, so don't ask.) Now, I'm convinced that there is tech like that for everyone. Run cancels are a big part of this tech and all the vets understand this, but then Sonic Fox makes an Erron Black video that shows that there is an understanding of how run cancels work that goes well beyond that of the average veteran. To simplify, understanding Street Fighter V is so easy that any caveman can do it - while understanding MKX involves knowing secret tech.

MKX captures the old arcade competitive feel with not everyone knowing the same things. With SFV, everyone knows the same and execution is easy - so its not about what you know. Its just about what you do. In my mind, the depth of knowledge needed - the secrets - makes MKX a much better playing experience. Players in MKX are unique in what they know. That kind of uniqueness only exists through play-styles in SFV. In MKX, play-styles are dictated by what you know as a precursor to who you are as a player.

So MKX should be praised since I can always be hit by some random bullshit that only exists because the rules of the game are inconsistant on top of all the stupid set play abd terrible neutral and lack of unique playstyles where as SFV isnt all that good because its got "cave man meta" even though its all fundamental reads and footsie based neutral where you have to win by out playing your opponent down to the last second and have real defensive options like no free chip deaths?

Yeah Ill just agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

[GAV]

So MKX should be praised since I can always be hit by some random bullshit that only exists because the rules of the game are inconsistant on top of all the stupid set play abd terrible neutral and lack of unique playstyles where as SFV isnt all that good because its got "cave man meta" even though its all fundamental reads and footsie based neutral where you have to win by out playing your opponent down to the last second and have real defensive options like no free chip deaths?

Yeah Ill just agree to disagree and leave it at that

MKX has dirt, but dealing with that dirt takes skill.

SFV is only the meta. That part of it isn't simple. Just the rest of it is. There's no hidden tech. There's no execution barriers. Blocking and movement also takes no practice.

MKX is a much deeper game. SFV has a deep meta, but it lacks in the other aspects.

I made this one short so maybe you would read it this time.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Did i just read that Aliens B3 and F4 aren't fast moves and you can't do them in the nuetral to mix people up? HUHHHH LOL both are under 19 frames. low and overhead starters one with 1/3 screen range and the other half screen range. Bruh come on ..