Question - Erron Black Who is better - Marksman or Outlaw?

[Groove Heaven]

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time and I genuinely can't decide which variation I think is better between marksman and outlaw. I think they're both very good and I'm pretty committed to being a marksman main but lately I've been thinking outlaw is better mainly because of marksman's unquenchable thirst for stamina.

Marksman
+safe, hit-confirmable 50/50s through gun cancels
+gun cancels, while minus, can provide extra mixups on unsuspecting opponents
+big damage in the corner, consistently gets more damage than outlaw in any situation
+additional zoning options albeit fairly weak ones
+better keep-away with unload
+better unbreakable options

-bad njp
-very stamina hungry, loses certain options without stamina
-zoning options slow and punishable in many situations



Outlaw
+safe 50/50s through option-selects (still pretty difficult to perform imo)
+tarkatan stab provides an extra DoT
+godlike njp
+2 additional armored specials that grant more damage than his 2 universal specials with armor
+manages stamina well
+standing resets possible if you choose to sacrifice full combo damage

-limited zoning/counter-zoning
-limited damage



Let me know what you guys think. Who would you call to have better MUs? Who do you play and why?
Sorry for leaving gunslinger out but I think that variation's unique tools pale very hard in comparison to the other 2.

 

[Groove Heaven]

Very interested in what @SonicFox5000 has to say about this

 

[podizzler3000]

cmon i think we know what sonicfox thinks. marksman has never been in any top 16 in any tourney. doesnt mean its not viable. maybe underutilized. probably not though. outlaw ftw

 

[21122]

Outlaw no questions.

 

[DownfouralitY]

cmon i think we know what sonicfox thinks. marksman has never been in any top 16 in any tourney. doesnt mean its not viable. maybe underutilized. probably not though. outlaw ftw

@xGunShow got top 8 at toryuken with Marksman Erron

I think Marksman is a very good variation, but the execution barrier definitely steers some players away from it. Overall I think Outlaw is probably the better variation but Marksman is definitely viable and shouldn't be slept on.

 

[InFlames]

I think they're both equally good

 

[podizzler3000]

@xGunShow got top 8 at toryuken with Marksman Erron

I think Marksman is a very good variation, but the execution barrier definitely steers some players away from it. Overall I think Outlaw is probably the better variation but Marksman is definitely viable and shouldn't be slept on.

really ill have to check that out. gunshow the guy that beat honeybee recently right?

 

[InFlames]

By the way Marksman doesn't do more damage than Outlaw. You can get the same damage by ending with Stab.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

If I remember correctly, I could be wrong, but during NLB or YOMI Sonic stated marksman was better.

Don't quote me on that as I don't play EB but remember hearing that.

 

[Death]

Outlaw limited damage? It does 35% meterless easily and almost 50 with 1 bar. It some of the best damage.

Outlaw is much better imo. Stab, the njp and having an armored launcher outweighs marksman. Marksmen cancels are kinda of a bill

 

[carrion4worm]

marksman...a zoner that can't zone with an interruptible launcher...so you end up playing the same game as outlaw, which does it much better. Tarkatan stab is one of the best enders in the game, with a huge hurt box and great damage. Gunslinger, on the other hand, has the hat.

 

[STRYKIE]

Still hard to say at this point, but one talking point the Outlaw boys keeping hyping up is his armor and I've never really been impressed. Marksman and Gunslinger already have serviceable armor, the utility of Outlaw's armor is crippled by jumpouts (yes EX sand does still catch them but conversion options are limited) and fast jab strings. This will only become more apparent with more time.

The extra oki and utility of the NJP are nothing to scoff at for some matchups though.

On the other hand, Marksman's zoning doesn't bring as much to the table as I thought it would, it probably is more counterzoning tailored. But it's options to make the 50/50 safe will always be there barring nerfs. Some characters are still well equipped enough to blow up Outlaw's mixups no matter what.

If I remember correctly, I could be wrong, but during NLB or YOMI Sonic stated marksman was better.

Don't quote me on that as I don't play EB but remember hearing that.

Yes, he stated in an interview at TCW that he feels Marksman is the superior variation. It just doesn't suit his gameplan.

 

[HeroesNZ]

I don't know about MUs but they're both very good. Marksman offers more pressure options, completely safe 50/50s, and more counter-zoning/keep-away options. Outlaw offers an armoured launcher, a better anti-air in EX DB4, a better NJP, and better oki.

If Outlaw was 10, I'd say Marksman would be a 9.5.

 

[Groove Heaven]

By the way Marksman doesn't do more damage than Outlaw. You can get the same damage by ending with Stab.

???
Midscreen this might be true, but marksman gets at least 42% off like anything in the corner meterless. No outlaw combo I know of pushes it that high. I'm not even trying to be stand-offish, I'm genuinely curious if he has stuff I'm not aware of.

marksman...a zoner that can't zone with an interruptible launcher...so you end up playing the same game as outlaw, which does it much better. Tarkatan stab is one of the best enders in the game, with a huge hurt box and great damage. Gunslinger, on the other hand, has the hat.

His zoning is for sure pretty weak but you can counterzone and even keep-away for a hot second in some MUs.
Launcher being interruptible is irrelevant. You shouldn't throw any launcher out without hitconfirming. In outlaw his launcher is full combo punishable. I think what makes marksman viable is the gun cancels letting you hit-confirm for the price of your stamina bar versus having to rely on an OS and EX sand grenade.

 

[InFlames]

???
Midscreen this might be true, but marksman gets at least 42% off like anything in the corner meterless. No outlaw combo I know of pushes it that high. I'm not even trying to be stand-offish, I'm genuinely curious if he has stuff I'm not aware of.

Yeah I meant midscreen, my bad

 

[carrion4worm]

???
Midscreen this might be true, but marksman gets at least 42% off like anything in the corner meterless. No outlaw combo I know of pushes it that high. I'm not even trying to be stand-offish, I'm genuinely curious if he has stuff I'm not aware of.


His zoning is for sure pretty weak but you can counterzone and even keep-away for a hot second in some MUs.
Launcher being interruptible is irrelevant. You shouldn't throw any launcher out without hitconfirming. In outlaw his launcher is full combo punishable. I think what makes marksman viable is the gun cancels letting you hit-confirm for the price of your stamina bar versus having to rely on an OS and EX sand grenade.

agree. but rifle shot and rifle swing are what essentially makes marksman, so I just pointed out the differences for others. So, I guess you are waking up with ex slide all the time lol? Since you only hit-confirm swing shot? Regardless, if Marksman is your thing, it's good enough to compete. Good luck!

 

[getoverhere--->]

Outlaw has better wake ups , I like both tho

 

[SaJa]

With OS Outlaw is much stronger (you have armored starter, that is a huge deal for most matchups), without OS marskman is better.

 

[ASMA]

Outlaw limited damage? It does 35% meterless easily and almost 50 with 1 bar. It some of the best damage.

Outlaw is much better imo. Stab, the njp and having an armored launcher outweighs marksman. Marksmen cancels are kinda of a bill

Outlaw getting close to 50%? Show me lol. Marksman is the only variant with true safe 50/50s because of the cancels. Option selects make you less negative but still punishable. Marksman has the real damage around 40% in the corner meterless. Zoning options aren't the best but caltrops combined with his options makes him somewhat scary plus EX gunshot does around 20%. No one wants that trade bruh lol

 

[LucaTheRipper]

Marksman 5050s are safe on block but did you guys noticed the gaps? A lot of chars doesn't even need EX to punish him. Some say Marksman is a zoning variation, i hardly doubt it, if used correctly its not so bad.

 

[The Farmer]

Gunslinger............

 

[ASMA]

Marksman 5050s are safe on block but did you guys noticed the gaps? A lot of chars doesn't even need EX to punish him. Some say Marksman is a zoning variation, i hardly doubt it, if used correctly its not so bad.

Marksman isn't a zoning variation. It gives him zoning options but he's definitely still a rushdown that wants you in the corner. I just think Outlaw has the better NJP and EX Sand which I can live without I'll take the rifle anyday

 

[ASMA]

Marksman 5050s are safe on block but did you guys noticed the gaps? A lot of chars doesn't even need EX to punish him. Some say Marksman is a zoning variation, i hardly doubt it, if used correctly its not so bad.

Oh and forgot to say the cancels get rid of most of the gaps .. You have enough time to cancel and block moves like Lao's EX Spin

 

[InFlames]

Marksman 5050s are safe on block but did you guys noticed the gaps? A lot of chars doesn't even need EX to punish him. Some say Marksman is a zoning variation, i hardly doubt it, if used correctly its not so bad.

They're not talking about Swing Shot, they're referring to his gun cancel. No gap, safe, and hitconfirmable.

 

[LucaTheRipper]

Marksman isn't a zoning variation. It gives him zoning options but he's definitely still a rushdown that wants you in the corner. I just think Outlaw has the better NJP and EX Sand which I can live without I'll take the rifle anyday

And what did i just said? I've seen shit like it.

They're not talking about Swing Shot, they're referring to his gun cancel. No gap, safe, and hitconfirmable.

They're bot interruptable.