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Who in your opinion is the best character in the entire game ?

Who is the best character in the entire game?

  • Total voters
    502
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
@anybodywhothinkstheyknowallthematchupsfor10characters

You're smoking crack. Stop comparing tools and start comparing MU's.

This incessant obsession to list all the characters in terms of best -> worst is so misguided. In reality, at this point in the game's life, there is no top 10. We do not know enough about how every character fairs with every other character to properly determine this pecking order, and until we do, any fool quoting their 'top 10' list is comparing a set of tools through the eyes of their own character. Fucking half the cast is in the 'top 10' conversation, and supposedly none of the cast is in the 'top 5' conversation. When will TYM get a grip and stop being so presumptuous and assuming they in anyway at this point in the games life, when there are still at least 4 more characters to join the roster, are knowledgeable enough about every matchup for the 15 or 20 supposed 'top 10 characters' to officially rank everyone of them in order. Of course the case of fairly obvious for perhaps the very best 2 or 3 characters, but even after that it gets hazy.

@cR WoundCowboy I do not presume to know how to feel about Shinnok or how you come to these conclusions, but do you at least consider him in the conversation? Because if you don't that is ludicrous and is most likely you succumbing to you're own well-known downplaying tenancies.

inb4whoareyou?
inb4iknowthecharacter
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Phosferrax said:
@anybodywhothinkstheyknowallthematchupsfor10characters

You're smoking crack. Stop comparing tools and start comparing MU's.

This incessant obsession to list all the characters in terms of best -> worst is so misguided. In reality, at this point in the game's life, there is no top 10. We do not know enough about how every character fairs with every other character to properly determine this pecking order, and until we do, any fool quoting their 'top 10' list is comparing a set of tools through the eyes of their own character. Fucking half the cast is in the 'top 10' conversation, and supposedly none of the cast is in the 'top 5' conversation. When will TYM get a grip and stop being so presumptuous and assuming they in anyway at this point in the games life, when there are still at least 4 more characters to join the roster, are knowledgeable enough about every matchup for the 15 or 20 supposed 'top 10 characters' to officially rank everyone of them in order. Of course the case of fairly obvious for perhaps the very best 2 or 3 characters, but even after that it gets hazy.

@cR WoundCowboy I do not presume to know how to feel about Shinnok or how you come to these conclusions, but do you at least consider him in the conversation? Because if you don't that is ludicrous and is most likely you succumbing to you're own well-known downplaying tenancies.

inb4whoareyou?
inb4iknowthecharacter
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..........
Yeah your right

Lao is the best :p
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
STRYKIE said:
I would actually argue the opposite, Lao's F2 is all kinds of nice by itself but anything after it on block is definitely not challenged often enough with an interruption, which I also admit to being guilty of. (although I'd like to think my reasons for not doing so are more valid than most others lol)
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Thing is you don't know if the Lao player will only do f2 (which is only -1) or f2~hat spin or f23~hat spin, etc... Not saying it's foolproof but it's a ridiculous normal.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
WiseM0nkey said:
f2xxhatspin has a gap, so does f23, i know stagger f2 might be a good mind game cause it's only -1, it's good for footies and whiff punish if you tell me, but it's nowhere near as good as Kotal b1 and Cassie b1...

Lao's main mind game comes from 112124xxexhat, and all the staggers from this strings combined with OH and throw mixups, that's what makes Lao's pressure godlike.

EDIT: f2 is not a mind game at all, now that I'm thinking about it
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Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
 
OnlineSkunk

OnlineSkunk

Noob
By the way if NRS nerf KL to the ground like they did with Scorpion hellfire, fix his 112124 and x ray hitbox inconsistencies. I'm gonna pocket this character If I can AA because that's the only reason I picked him up in the first place, jump ins are too good in this game which is something that takes no skills.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
coolwhip said:
Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
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Yeh, there are all kinds of options and layers behind f2, especially in tempest. When someone gets blown up by run up f2 hat spin, they can choose to just stand there and block and wait to try and armor f2 hat spin or they just block because they dont want to get hit because its so fast. If you read this you can just do run up grab. F2 itself can be followed up with a grab, walk back b321 to punish whiffed pokes or punish them when they try to tech a grab/or are neutral crouching to avoid a grab, f2 into f2 hat spin as a fast pressure option, f2 into d4 and when they respect that you can do f2 into b2 hat spin, you also have f2 into 11212. This is all part of his pressure and it is absolutely false when people say there is no mindgame behind f2 at all.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Braindead said:
You can't rely on hell sparks much in this MU because one bad hell spark and you're gonna get punished heavily into the vortex. You must have a bar of meter every time you go for a hell spark, and BS is way too reliant on meter to have a bar whenever he wants.

B3 isn't used as often with BS as in Impostor, due to having no vortex. It's kindda too slow to be used in neutral, and I use it mostly only in the corner on oki.
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No one is saying to just throw it out at random, Braindead. It still covers a huge chunk of screen real estate and it's something I have to think about in the neutral.

There's no reason you couldn't stand outside B2 range, bait it, and then Hellsparks once it whiffs.

Quan's longest range normals are b1 and B2. If you block a B2, Quan has to go into rune, at which point if he goes overhead, you can armor with the mawp.

And while I'd say Quan's zoning is better, there's no reason Shinnok can't use his on a lifelead. Once Shinnok touches Quan, he has to start guessing like everyone else. Same for when Quan gets a good of Shinnok.

Feels pretty even, man.
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
coolwhip said:
Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
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f2 stagger isnt a thing, it's just used to punish / whiff punishing, footsie and keep in check, his stagger is 112124xxexhat wich is a true blockstring. Kotal b1 it's like KLs 11, with the difference that Kotal b1 is a 9f advancing mid while KL's 11 is an 8f high...

think about it, if you block a f2 and you wanna buffer armor, my only option becomes blocking or bdashing, or i'll get blown up
 
The Highlander

The Highlander

There can be only one
omooba said:
regarding frames i might have tweaked a little cus ...salt but only by a frame and you can't say lao's jip is better than hers, they're good in different scenarios.
i believe you under played the hell out of ex flip kick but that's just me
don't really want to argue cus this sin't a nerf/buff thread but i really do think you're down playing her like how can u say ex-flip kick is not as much a defensive tool as lao's spin.
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I can too say his is better. It literally hit's from 3/4 screen... It has a disjointed hitbox, you can't even anti-air it at max range. Cassie's JIP isn't even top 5. QC, KL, Sonya, Kj, Kotal... I would trade any special in the game for lao's spin. It's 7 frames anti airs, has a massive hitbox. Flip is only 1 frame faster, far less consistent at anti-airing, and has a much smaller hitbox in a trade off for safety. Like I said before, great character but you're up playing the shit out of her.
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Big Pampering said:
Yeh, there are all kinds of options and layers behind f2, especially in tempest. When someone gets blown up by run up f2 hat spin, they can choose to just stand there and block and wait to try and armor f2 hat spin or they just block because they dont want to get hit because its so fast. If you read this you can just do run up grab. F2 itself can be followed up with a grab, walk back b321 to punish whiffed pokes or punish them when they try to tech a grab/or are neutral crouching to avoid a grab, f2 into f2 hat spin as a fast pressure option, f2 into d4 and when they respect that you can do f2 into b2 hat spin, you also have f2 into 11212. This is all part of his pressure and it is absolutely false when people say there is no mindgame behind f2 at all.
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if you get blown up by f2xxhat spin you get a full combo if it hits lol, im not sure what you mean about "being blown up by f2xxhatspin", if you block f2xxhatspin it's -3 you have to make the KL player respect his minus frames. f2 into f2 will get blown up by armor, so does f2 into d4 or b2 or whatever. it's a good mindgame but it's not as legit as 112124. Once ppl realize that you go for f2 staggers or f2 into f2 hat or f23 or into a button press really they will armor the shit, no matter what you do, besides bdashing / blocking or jump back. character like Kotal, Cassie, Johnny, Takeda can catch Lao's bdash with their normals.

not downplaying here, I'm just saying that f2 stagger isnt a legit mindgame as many guys thinks.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
WiseM0nkey said:
if you get blown up by f2xxhat spin you get a full combo if it hits lol, im not sure what you mean about "being blown up by f2xxhatspin", if you block f2xxhatspin it's -3 you have to make the KL player respect his minus frames. f2 into f2 will get blown up by armor, so does f2 into d4 or b2 or whatever. it's a good mindgame but it's not as legit as 112124. Once ppl realize that you go for f2 staggers or f2 into f2 hat or f23 or into a button press really they will armor the shit, no matter what you do, besides bdashing / blocking or jump back. character like Kotal, Cassie, Johnny, Takeda can catch Lao's bdash with their normals.

not downplaying here, I'm just saying that f2 stagger isnt a legit mindgame as many guys thinks.
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bruh...
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
WiseM0nkey said:
ok,

are you gonna prove anything beside "bruh"?
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You're only minus 3. Most characters cannot get a guaranteed mid string out because their mid string can still get interrupted by your d4. Which means they often have to go for a poke after hat spin on block, and if you just block that poke its your turn again.

The armor stuff youre talking about makes no sense. Yes you can armor, you can armor all stagger strings and that isnt even a kung lao thing. Just because it isn't guaranteed doesn't mean its not useful, it means its not broken. Im sorry you have to mix it up and not be predictable. Are you really telling people to armor everytime after blocking a move that is -1.

Also you need to mixup 112124 ex hat spin as well, you cant just go for the guaranteed d4 everytime... The other options besides d4 arent guaranteed, does that mean those arent viable options as well?
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
STRYKIE said:
I would actually argue the opposite, Lao's F2 is all kinds of nice by itself but anything after it on block is definitely not challenged often enough with an interruption, which I also admit to being guilty of. (although I'd like to think my reasons for not doing so are more valid than most others lol)
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and i dont often see any player armoring betwwen b321xxhat or b321xxexhat, tho as KL you can still block after b321xxexhat you still have to bait the armor, and if you're able to make KLs fear the armor it's a good start
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
ArmedCalf said:
Shinnok goes even or beats most of those people doesn't he? If not in BS, Imposter.
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Well for one thing, i think he loses to most of those characters. For another, shinnok could beat the best character in the game and still not be top 10. Individual matchups don't necessarily translate into tier position.

Phosferrax said:
@anybodywhothinkstheyknowallthematchupsfor10characters

You're smoking crack. Stop comparing tools and start comparing MU's.

This incessant obsession to list all the characters in terms of best -> worst is so misguided. In reality, at this point in the game's life, there is no top 10. We do not know enough about how every character fairs with every other character to properly determine this pecking order, and until we do, any fool quoting their 'top 10' list is comparing a set of tools through the eyes of their own character. Fucking half the cast is in the 'top 10' conversation, and supposedly none of the cast is in the 'top 5' conversation. When will TYM get a grip and stop being so presumptuous and assuming they in anyway at this point in the games life, when there are still at least 4 more characters to join the roster, are knowledgeable enough about every matchup for the 15 or 20 supposed 'top 10 characters' to officially rank everyone of them in order. Of course the case of fairly obvious for perhaps the very best 2 or 3 characters, but even after that it gets hazy.

@cR WoundCowboy I do not presume to know how to feel about Shinnok or how you come to these conclusions, but do you at least consider him in the conversation? Because if you don't that is ludicrous and is most likely you succumbing to you're own well-known downplaying tenancies.

inb4whoareyou?
inb4iknowthecharacter
Click to expand...
Anything is possible, but that is my opinion at the moment.
 
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