the overhead toss does the same thing and goes fullscreen. there are very few projectiles if any where i would rather use boss toss cus even though ferra toss goes over some at least you'll get a trade. so what i'm asking is what match up would you rather use boss toss rather than ferra toss.
They don't do the same thing. Boss Toss does 16% as opposed to 10% and if the opponent's projectile hits you first, the Overhead Toss doesn't even trade since it loses it's hitbox--which is true of Boss Toss too, but really only low projectiles and a few machinegun types get past Boss Toss.
so i tried this and with both pyro and kitana their walk speed and teleport made it so boss toss almost always ate the projectile then whiffed but with gm this mad a huge difference. in this match up it seems like you only have to guess once during his corner set up but again the only real advantage is the 16% soooo yeah idk but thx
yeah i'm beginning to think he's not worth it. this is why i believe if they buffed it to fullscreen it would literally save the variation. right now so many zoners can just play their game with him cus a blocked ferra means waiting for her to come back and even when hit his run speed is ugh, but eh thx anyways
The one thing to note about that slow command grab is they give good tick throws, which I've learned are really just as good as the fast command grab. Vicous actually has ticks that work with ex Command Grab on either hit or block, so there's no need to set up a situation where the opponent needs to block.
I don't see Vicious as being a bad variation at all though, so I think instead of buffing it, Ruthless should just be nerfed. We've talked about things like removing ex Ferra Toss and ex Bowl Girl. In REO's KP3 thread, he mentioned the self-inflicted damage from P&G being 6% up from 5%, and a universal nerf to ex Ferra Throw and ex Ferra Toss.
you want to nerf a character that's not top 10? bruh. i can maybe get behind removing ex bowl girl and ex ferra toss but that's entirely unnecessary. and even if they nerfed him, vicious still doesn't do anything much better than the rest. if they made the regular boss toss fullscreen it'll fix the problem literally all variations of ferra/torr have of being zoned out by people with fast projectiles.
so you think ruthless is better than 7 of these
I think so. He's really good. Though I don't entirely agree with like half this list.
Definitely bettter than Heavy Weapons, Wrestler, Hollywood, smoke, and grandmaster IMO.
idk if ex does go full screen, it suffers the same problem the other two have in that fullscreen if you're opponent walks back they whiff. I believe, been a while since I've been in that situation.
aight well i disagree for the main reason that those characters (except maybe grandmaster) just have more better tools imo and even if you were right that still doesn't put him at top 10
can u destroy up rock and instant air rock?
no i dont know what hes talking about, tremor has low air quake, unblockable ground pound, and overhead rock to zone them out. there are really only 5 main match ups I see vicious being functional in, kitana, reptile, liu kang, sektor, and subzero. These are characters where boss toss and ferra tosses in general actually make a consistant difference, and its not like we bop them either its just that they have to show some respect when Ferra is on our back in neutral. The vast majority of the zoning characters in this game have zoning options that dont count as traditional projectiles for ferra to destroy or come from a direction ferra cannot hit. Quan runes/portals, kenshi spirits, jaquis guns, anyone with a ground pound such as bo rai cho, goro, pumped up, boneeshaper etc, shinnoks hellsparks, ermacs choke, tremors aerial low, aliens spit, gunslingers guns, takedas whips, scorpion minions, smokes bombs, cyrax bombs, cyber sub bombs...... ALL cant be dealt with with Ferra tosses, so we end up having to run them down, making vicious useless because we cant anti zone shit
More tools or better tools?? can't be both.
I believe he's talking about the regular rock throws, which forces him to use the other options which are easier to get around.
I feel like ruthless is the powerhouse variation, always in your face and super strong offensive game while vicious is the true tank of this Game. Boss toss may not absorb more projectiles than oh toss but fuck this move is a good spacing tool. In mid range you have to Block it because it also aa really good at that range. But his offensive game relies way more on his b121 "Vortex" than ruthless.
