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Question - Smoke Where does smoke rank compared to the other variations?

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
These threads are w/o point. All 4 are great, playing the "worst" one whether that be smoke, sektor, cyrax or sub depending on your opinion, doesn't matter. It's like saying you got into the 4th best ivy league school, who cares, you're still in the ivy league. Y'know?
 

PaletteSwap

Misanthropiate
It breaks my heart to say, as a Smoke main, that he is probably the 3rd or 4th worst among the borgs. It makes sense that he doesn't hit hard or have armored moves because he's supposed to be a fast, stealthy assassin, but I find that he is overall lacking compared to the other variations. If he had shake or some kind of unique attacks out of phase, I'd say he could compete with Cyber Sub-Zero for number one. I'm still sticking with him and hoping for something to click, but I'm totally co maining CSZ because those drone enhance combos are just too fun.
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
These threads are w/o point. All 4 are great, playing the "worst" one whether that be smoke, sektor, cyrax or sub depending on your opinion, doesn't matter. It's like saying you got into the 4th best ivy league school, who cares, you're still in the ivy league. Y'know?
Yea but the whole point is to get everyone's point of view for a certain character. That was makes a fighting game fun, the discussion, the knowledge, the different opinions from different people.
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
It breaks my heart to say, as a Smoke main, that he is probably the 3rd or 4th worst among the borgs. It makes sense that he doesn't hit hard or have armored moves because he's supposed to be a fast, stealthy assassin, but I find that he is overall lacking compared to the other variations. If he had shake or some kind of unique attacks out of phase, I'd say he could compete with Cyber Sub-Zero for number one. I'm still sticking with him and hoping for something to click, but I'm totally co maining CSZ because those drone enhance combos are just too fun.
I feel you bro, i feel the same.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I personally feel right now smoke is the worse. Cyrax being better because he's harder to block and does a lot more damage from stray hits and hit confirmed mix ups.

Although, I do feel phases potential is still being worked on and I don't think it's very easy to pressure him safely. Smoke makes you play his game, simple as that.

I feel he is lacking because he has a LOT of hitbox bugs (b21 and f43 for starters), low damage and a meter dependant vortex. He also doesn't have many pressure options outside of ex smoke bomb, and a lot of options for frame trapping out of ex bomb can be low profiles easily.

Triborg universally has shit pokes too. D3 is stubby AF and d4 lacks speed and has a wonky hitbox as well. D1 doesn't have much hit adv so you may get jabbed out of follow ups if u aren't confirming the hit on time.

He's not a bad character by any means and he's still new, so there's things to be found, I just think he's the worse of the Borgs.
 

Etoroguy

Why isn't Jax's Farm a playable stage?
My Triborg Tierlist

1. Sektor (even though many people think csz is the best, the hit advantage of uprockets is a lot and he can make 50/50s safe with ex straight missile and has good armour)

2. Cyber Sub Zero (Good damage and bomb setups midscreen and in the corner good armour but more unsafe)

3. Cyrax (great combo damage, resets and bomb setups, safe 50/50s, lacks standing armour)

4. Smoke (poor meterless damage, great vortex potential, safe 50/50s, counter zoning, no armour whatsoever)
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Idk why people think no armor is a straight up weakness when he has an invinvible wakeup and "reversal". Characters cant just go ham one you. For example my friend is maining Cyrax and he absolutely hates playing vs my Smoke cuz I give no fucks about his hard to blockable reset. Just tele out and whiff punish him for full combo. Not many chars in this game have that luxury.
 

shad0ki11er 27

Time will only tell the Greats
Idk why people think no armor is a straight up weakness when he has an invinvible wakeup and "reversal". Characters cant just go ham one you. For example my friend is maining Cyrax and he absolutely hates playing vs my Smoke cuz I give no fucks about his hard to blockable reset. Just tele out and whiff punish him for full combo. Not many chars in this game have that luxury.
its not invincible he can be hit or grabbed out of the normal one and the EX one he can just be grabbed out of it. I am a smoke main and can say that he is completely balanced but if you time it right you can get it free because people are scared to press a button when being pressured.
 

PaletteSwap

Misanthropiate
My Triborg Tierlist

1. Sektor (even though many people think csz is the best, the hit advantage of uprockets is a lot and he can make 50/50s safe with ex straight missile and has good armour)

2. Cyber Sub Zero (Good damage and bomb setups midscreen and in the corner good armour but more unsafe)

3. Cyrax (great combo damage, resets and bomb setups, safe 50/50s, lacks standing armour)

4. Smoke (poor meterless damage, great vortex potential, safe 50/50s, counter zoning, no armour whatsoever)
You know, I'm starting to see the godliness of Sektor as well. Up rocket and EX straight rocket are incredible zoning tools that lead to full combos. Also, 2, 1, 2, b, b is a really nice hit confirm string.
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
You know, I'm starting to see the godliness of Sektor as well. Up rocket and EX straight rocket are incredible zoning tools that lead to full combos. Also, 2, 1, 2, b, b is a really nice hit confirm string.
The crazy thing about up rockets is the if he does it and you teleport to the other side of the screen, at least 1 of the other rockets will still hit for a free combo (up rockets hit advantage is crazy)
 

Etoroguy

Why isn't Jax's Farm a playable stage?
The crazy thing about up rockets is the if he does it and you teleport to the other side of the screen, at least 1 of the other rockets will still hit for a free combo (up rockets hit advantage is crazy)
I try to trade with Cyrax's net and the hit stun is so much I can hardly combo off of it.
 

PaletteSwap

Misanthropiate
The crazy thing about up rockets is the if he does it and you teleport to the other side of the screen, at least 1 of the other rockets will still hit for a free combo (up rockets hit advantage is crazy)
Yeah, I really wish Smoke had more utility. I feel like he's kind of a one trick pony and I'd honestly give up one of the free hit specials for something deeper or a balanced Shake type special. He just feels redundant to play and because of the gaps in his strings, I feel very limited. Meter reliant vortex is a turn off for me.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Smoke is definitely the worst variation of Triborg. No one can convince me otherwise. He is still fun to play and isn't poop tier or anything...but he has issues...

He is more or less a scrub killer that has no real offense to speak of when you compare it to other characters. Poor projectile. High meter dependency. No armor. Ex Phase is a good tool, but his normal one is too gimmicky. Teleport is not enough of a threat against zoning. B1, 2+4 can be MB for the other borgs, but not Smoke...awesome. B1 (overhead) ~ smoke bomb doesn't work against male opponents so you either have to meaty it, use meter, get super low damage, or be super unsafe. Gaps galore in his strings. His main offense is to go for his 50-50 and hope to vortex you to death 18-23% at a time or whatever.

I am not really asking for any changes though because Triborg in total is an insane character. I just think for Smoke to complete you have to give him a legit projectile and more ways to create offense than just get in and generic 50-50 you. 31 frame startup on smoke bomb is hilarious.
 
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ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
Smoke might be pretty damn nice. Someone needs to take like 24 hours and really examine his wake-up fade in the corner. That shit is a mind game. Sometimes he gets hit out, other times he gets a full combo punish. I think in the right hands this character might be something
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
Yeah, I really wish Smoke had more utility. I feel like he's kind of a one trick pony and I'd honestly give up one of the free hit specials for something deeper or a balanced Shake type special. He just feels redundant to play and because of the gaps in his strings, I feel very limited. Meter reliant vortex is a turn off for me.
Exactly bro
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
Smoke is definitely the worst variation of Triborg. No one can convince me otherwise. He is still fun to play and isn't poop tier or anything...but he has issues...

He is more or less a scrub killer that has no real offense to speak of when you compare it to other characters. Poor projectile. High meter dependency. No armor. Ex Phase is a good tool, but his normal one is too gimmicky. Teleport is not enough of a threat against zoning. B1, 2+4 can be MB for the other borgs, but not Smoke...awesome. B1 (overhead) ~ smoke bomb doesn't work against male opponents so you either have to meaty it, use meter, get super low damage, or be super unsafe. Gaps galore in his strings. His main offense is to go for his 50-50 and hope to vortex you to death 18-23% at a time or whatever.

I am not really asking for any changes though because Triborg in total is an insane character. I just think for Smoke to complete you have to give him a legit projectile and more ways to create offense than just get in and generic 50-50 you. 31 frame startup on smoke bomb is hilarious.
Your post is dead on. Good stuff bro
 

KombatJames

For the lin kuei!
Smoke might be pretty damn nice. Someone needs to take like 24 hours and really examine his wake-up fade in the corner. That shit is a mind game. Sometimes he gets hit out, other times he gets a full combo punish. I think in the right hands this character might be something
Against GM sub's ice clone anywhere on the screen he's free. He cant fade by the clone.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Smoke is definitely the worst variation of Triborg. No one can convince me otherwise. He is still fun to play and isn't poop tier or anything...but he has issues...

He is more or less a scrub killer that has no real offense to speak of when you compare it to other characters. Poor projectile. High meter dependency. No armor. Ex Phase is a good tool, but his normal one is too gimmicky. Teleport is not enough of a threat against zoning. B1, 2+4 can be MB for the other borgs, but not Smoke...awesome. B1 (overhead) ~ smoke bomb doesn't work against male opponents so you either have to meaty it, use meter, get super low damage, or be super unsafe. Gaps galore in his strings. His main offense is to go for his 50-50 and hope to vortex you to death 18-23% at a time or whatever.

I am not really asking for any changes though because Triborg in total is an insane character. I just think for Smoke to complete you have to give him a legit projectile and more ways to create offense than just get in and generic 50-50 you. 31 frame startup on smoke bomb is hilarious.
I think if smoke bomb was sped up it would definitely be more of a legit threat
 

PaletteSwap

Misanthropiate
^^I think they should have just done away with smoke bomb altogether. After all, this is Cyber Smoke, not Human Smoke. I actually liked Smoke's move set from MKD and MKA a lot. Stinky Cloud may be a stupidly named special, but it was essentially an ice clone type evasive move. Just in case some people aren't familiar with these awful games, Smoke basically dashes backwards leaving a smokey cloud in his place that temporarily traps any opponent that goes inside of it.

Smoke bomb seriously blows so fucking hard in MKX. It's so redundant and Smoke having both that and the harpoon makes as much sense as if Sub-Zero had an ice ball and an ice harpoon. Seriously, if you're gonna have multiple free hit specials, they should be vastly different in properties. Take Cyber Sub-Zero for example; he has multiple ways to freeze and get a free hit but only 1 of them is a true projectile.

I almost feel like they should have done away with the smoke bomb projectile and gave Smoke an actual Cyrax style smoke bomb that, upon detonation, releases a noxious cloud of Smoke that causes the opponent to choke and get trapped for a second. And if you are gonna give a character a meter dependent vortex as its only viable option, an additional free hit special that leaves the opponent standing would be nice.

At least Smoke bomb isn't as useless as SZ's MK9 ground freeze though.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
I think Smoke is really "Triborg the character", he can confirm his strings better while the other variations have to use their specials or unsafe strings (specifically f4, f2, f1), he can keep pressuring with EX Smoke Bomb OR go for "safe" 50/50's, has the better whiff punish potential (Sektor may be better), invincibility on the ground and in the air, doesn't rely on set-ups but has uses for them, and decent meter gain.
Most importantly, he has ALL the mindgames which can be countered by the right read (think about alternating Trident with Smoke bomb if your opponent is jumping/backdashing, think about lots of strings ending in +2 (which all have gaps, usable to bait) combined with a 10 frame mid and 7 frame d1, there are no excuses here, for this reason I'd consider Smoke the only fair variation.

The other variations have been given tools that denies the need of fundamental play (to a lesser extent) and mostly blast with offense, Smoke does not belong in that category, it all depends on the player(s).

If MKX was a more balanced game, with less offensive bs (no pseudo infinites/unblockables or +500 on a special cancel), Smoke would be more viable*. I'm 100% certain these things will stay but you know who suffers the least from these situations? Smoke.

The only thing he's missing is his Shake and so far it's the only thing I think he really needs, his anti-zoning is very lacking and it doesn't fit with the variation nor the character, as well as the fact that Mileena Ethereal may invalidate him in a lot of ways I feel Smoke deserves a little extra threat (and armored moves isn't it). Other than that MKXL Smoke is my favorite designed character play-wise in any of NRS' games, a lot more in-depth than I expected.

I rate him bottom with Sektor and CSZ/Cyrax on top.

edit: hotfix just came out, CSZ still retains his corner pressure at the cost of less damage, Sektor normalized fairly. Doesn't change my opinion but I'm happy with the changes.
 
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