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What would you want from moveset expansions in a major patch?

I see a lot of prominent voices talking about how MK11 has become stale. If NRS went the route of DragonBall FighterZ and made major changes, IMO they should address breakaway, fatal blows, and the wakeup system (and IMO make flawless block U3 cost just one off/def bar), but focus mainly on expanding movesets, at least for the variations that aren't viable. Tekken 7 does it for every character every season so it seems devs could manage this. I don't know anything about some of the variations so let me know your ideas, and I'll copy them in:

Fujin: v1 Downburst- receives air burst (or whatever his kustom move is called that's like Guile's sonic boom)
v3 Cyclone- gets jet stream and a new string off of f2 and b2b that encourages opponent to backdash. Sets up the KB he already has in that variation for catching a back dash.

Jade : deadly assassin strings in her base kit, with no gaps for 322 and not a dial in string. Put Delia dance instead of deadly assassin in her v3. And make db2 of v3 a real launcher linked to combos.
One or all variations get an MK9 style Jade combo with: Staff slam(launcher), staff grab, and mid ex boomerang that returns on block or hit. Combos and block pressure.

Kitana : Make parry of Fan Fare a real parry, like in MKX, and/or add upward fan toss.

Kollector: v3 gets faster startup, recovery and more block safety on chakram. Also gets a new special move chakram toss that moves in an arc similar to his v2 bomb toss. b3 can be cancelled into to a different string that moves him forward.

Kung Lao: v3 can act faster out of spirit guide cancels ? Maybe a new spirit-powered buff or string.

Raiden: v3 Normal Lightening Rod stays out much much longer (like 10-15 secs), and have the electric bubble on amp last 1-2 secs longer. Raiden loses any staff moves while it's out, and he already has a command to recall it. That way he could actually use Lightening Rod for some real setups, potential zoning, or even a way to end some combos if he's comboing the opponent near where the staff is out. As it is now, the staff disappears so quickly Raiden has to commit instantly to a projectile the second the staff is out to try and get any benefit.
Also, either re-work the inputs and let him have Super Bolt, or let him have his lightening storm (the move where he goes into a float stance and has follow up options).

D'Vorah: v3 NRS could give her more options out of Fly.

NightWolf:
v2 buff recovery on teleport. Like ffs you spend a bar and get basically nothing for it. That and maybe speed up the command grab by a frame or two, would make the armour break more enticing to use. Maybe add bleed dmg to the amp’d cmd grab. v1- add another one of his kustom spirit animal buffs.

Shang Tsung: v2 SpellCaster - can teleport like MKX possessed Kenshi out of his charge move. But he can only do jump kick or empty jump, no free jp into block string bs. Maybe he could also 'wow out' like MKX ermac to feint a teleport but return in place. All options require meter.

Scorpion: v3 Misery Blade overheads are -12 on block, down from -17. Fix hitbox on MB3 to be more consistent. New string off of his f4 with fast start up on a mid-hitting second hit (MB cancels will be more effective if opponent is afraid to mash poke).

Sheeva: all variations receive a faster S3 that quickly continues into one or two mid-hitting attacks. -7 to -5 on block with just enough pushback to be out of grab range. Only S3 is special-cancellable. 13% dmg. She just needs something with fast start up and decent range to compensate a little for her bad neutral and footsie game.

Shao Kahn: d1 can now easily jail into s1. F3 has a couple frames less recovery and less minus on block. Magic Might variation has taunts sped up to actually be useful. All variations receive a few EX versions of existing special moves (Eg. up wrath hammer amp’d gets more block and hitstun). Add some utility to the EX versions of the restand and annihilation.

Sub Zero: rising ice should be part of his base kit. It would make his 212 useful since that’s the only string that connects to rising ice. It also opens up additional combos in the corner.

Sonya: gets leg cmd grab, cartwheel and bicycle kicks. Classic moves return.

That's all I've got for the moment.

Let me know your ideas!
 
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@Kiss the Missile Yeah more combo paths would be great, but what would create the need for them? Maybe if there were small meterless pop-ups for every character... maybe short hops launch for a small combo? Idk.
Edit: I’m actually liking this idea the more I think about it. To balance it NRS could choose the less safe short hop to make into a launcher.
 
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Benlo

Noob
Jade : deadly assassin strings in her base kit, with no gaps for 322 and not a dial in string. Put Delia dance instead of deadly assassin in her v3. And make db2 of v3 a real launcher linked to combos.

Kitana : remove the parry of Fan Fare (or make it a real parry, like in MKX) and add upward fan toss instead.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
Raiden: v3 ?

For starters, have normal Lightening Rod stay out much much longer (like 10-15 secs), and have the electric bubble on amp last 1-2 secs longer than it currently does right. Raiden loses any staff moves while it's out, and he already has a command to recall it. That way he could actually use Lightening Rod for some real setups, potential zoning, or even a way to end some combos if he's comboing the opponent near where the staff is out. As it is now, the staff disappears so quickly Raiden has to commit instantly to a projectile the second the staff is out to try and get any benefit.

Jo Push takes two pips for the special move loadout, it should probably only take 1, and then they could give him an extra special move. Either re-work the inputs and let him have Super Bolt, or let him have his lightening storm (the move where he goes into a float stance and has follow up options).
 

Espio

Jax Whacks Hacks Across Their Backs
Lead Moderator
I'd like an MK9 style Jade variation combo with: Staff slam(launcher), staff grab, and mid ex boomerang that returns on block or hit. Combos and block pressure.

I would love a classic Sonya with: cartwheel, leg grab, and bicycle kicks.


I like Baraka perfectly fine as is at the moment.
 

SparkySanders

Unga bunga practitioner
I’d be completely content with nightwolfs v2 if they buffed the recovery of his tp. Like ffs you spend a bar and get basically nothing for it

that and maybe speed up the command grab by a frame or two, would make the armour break more enticing to use.
 

Arqwart

Flawless block reversal me, daddy
All instances of a variation "move" being additional combo strings are now baseline across the entire cast. Add some other whatever variation move to fill the now-open slot on variations that had said strings. While I'm mostly ok with the idea of the variation system, locking strings behind them just does not work in MK11 like it did in MKX. In MKX, the variations had core design differences going so far as utilizing different weapons or being different characters (Tri-borg) so having specific strings to variations made sense. In a mix-and-match variation system like MK11, variation-locked strings make 0 fucking sense.

Aside from that, I'd also be down with adding 1 variation-specific move to any character that didn't just get additional strings from the above change. Give Kitana Ground War, give Skarlet Dagger Dance parry, give Fujin Jet Stream buff, give Noob Spirit Ball projectile, give Baraka Baraka-barrage normals, etc.
 

mrapchem

Noob
I see a lot of prominent voices talking about how MK11 has become stale. If NRS went the route of DragonBall FighterZ and made major changes, IMO they should address breakaway, fatal blows, and the wakeup system (and IMO make flawless block U3 cost just one defensive bar), but focus mainly on expanding movesets, at least for the variations that aren't viable. Tekken 7 does it for every character every season so it seems devs could manage this. I don't know anything about some of the variations so let me know your ideas, and I'll copy them in:

Fujin: v1 Downburst- receives air burst (or whatever his kustom move is called that's like Guile's sonic boom)
v3 Cyclone- gets jet stream and a new string off of f2 and b2b that encourages opponent to backdash. Sets up the KB he already has in that variation for catching a back dash.

Jade : deadly assassin strings in her base kit, with no gaps for 322 and not a dial in string. Put Delia dance instead of deadly assassin in her v3. And make db2 of v3 a real launcher linked to combos.

Kitana : Make parry of Fan Fare a real parry, like in MKX, and/or add upward fan toss.

Kollector: v3 gets faster startup, recovery and more block safety on chakram. Also gets a new special move chakram toss that moves in an arc similar to his v2 bomb toss. b3 can be cancelled into to a different string that moves him forward.

Kung Lao: v3 can act faster out of spirit guide cancels ? Maybe a new spirit-powered buff or string.

Raiden: v3 ?

D'Vorah: v3 NRS could give her more options out of Fly.

NightWolf:
v2 buff recovery on teleport. Like ffs you spend a bar and get basically nothing for it. That and maybe speed up the command grab by a frame or two, would make the armour break more enticing to use. Maybe add bleed dmg to the amp’d cmd grab. v1- add another one of his kustom spirit animal buffs.

Shang Tsung: v2 SpellCaster - can teleport like MKX possessed Kenshi out of his charge move. But he can only do jump kick or empty jump, no free jp into block string bs. Maybe he could also 'wow out' like MKX ermac to feint a teleport but return in place. All options require meter.

Scorpion: v3 Misery Blade overheads are -12 on block, down from -17. Fix hitbox on MB3 to be more consistent. New string off of his f4 with fast start up on a mid-hitting second hit (MB cancels will be more effective if opponent is afraid to mash poke).

Sheeva: all variations receive a faster S3 that quickly continues into one or two mid-hitting attacks. -7 to -5 on block with just enough pushback to be out of grab range. Only S3 is special-cancellable. 13% dmg. She just needs something with fast start up and decent range to compensate a little for her bad neutral and footsie game.

Shao Kahn: d1 can now easily jail into s1. F3 has a couple frames less recovery and less minus on block. Magic Might variation has taunts sped up to actually be useful.

Sub Zero: rising ice should be part of his base kit. It would make his 212 useful since that’s the only string that connects to rising ice. It also opens up additional combos in the corner.

Sonya: gets leg cmd grab

That's all I've got for the moment.

Let me know your ideas!
As a sub-zero player, I feel that rising ice should be part of his base kit. It would make his 212 useful since that’s the only string that connects to rising ice. It also opens up additional combos in the corner.

YES YES and YES!!!!!!!!!!


I've been saying for damn near the entire year that Sub-Zero's Rising Ice should become a base move. It makes him fun to play and makes for a much better character.
 

mrapchem

Noob
But to contribute to the thread, I'd like to see the following:

Sonya: Kiss of Death as a special move that combos when amplified like JC's Camera, plus reworking her unused strings to be practical

Skarlet: Blood Trail allows combos when amplified, plus more strings

Johnny Cage: His B2 gets the Shao Kahn B3 treatment where its recovery is drastically lowered, allowing for more follow-ups mid-screen, plus Pissed Off and Hook Punch made as base moves

Robocop: His Grenades allow for a combo when amplified, making him a much better character overall

Kitana: Upward Fan added to base kit, plus her launching dial-a-string allowing for Air Fan to combo'd into

Sub-Zero: His B2 gets the Shao Kahn B3 treatment where its recovery is drastically lowered, allowing for more follow-ups mid-screen, plus a new mid-mid string

Jax: His B1 gets the Shao Kahn B3 treatment where its recovery is drastically lowered, allowing for more follow-ups mid-screen

Nightwolf: His B2 gets the Shao Kahn B3 treatment where its recovery is drastically lowered, allowing for more follow-ups mid-screen

Baraka: F21 links into Gutted and KB F44 links into Chop Chop mid-screen

Jade: EX Razor-Rang allows combos when amplified
 
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Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
The problem is you could tell they meant for custom variations to be the default from the jump. That was one of Inj2's biggest complaints was you had all these sick moves that were completely useless in competitive modes, and now we have the same issue in MK11.

What makes it worse are the Kombat League exclusive items. As much as I'd rather just use kustoms in player matches, I have to use the default shit if I want any of those rewards.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Every character should have a universal launcher. IDFK why NRS went the route of treating combos as some filthy commodity, everyone should be doing combos.
This is hopeless though because many characters are designed and balanced around not having a launch.. so they'd have to make a huge sweeping balance patch, and judging by NRS' history they will do a horrendous job. cough armor break patch cough cough wheeze
 
@thlityoursloat Yeah they should just delete breakaway altogether imo. NRS created breakaway to add intricacy but it just forces u to shorten ur combo when the opponent has meter - unless u wanna get punished for hitting your opponent. It’s not real depth. Or at least not interesting depth.

Now if they want to keep armor breakers with depth - hear me out because this is going to sound really random - something I always thought was a really hype and fun mechanic was Street Fighter 4’s focus attack. Just put that in MK11. It’s not fuck neutral like MKX armor; you have to charge it so it’s reactable, not a free turn steal, and there’d be the armor breakers to counter it. It worked super well in a neutral heavy game SF4 so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be acceptable here.

NRS would have to rework which moves break armor but I don’t think anyone should have a problem with that.

My idea of how that would work is that every character gets one focus attack - dash cancellable just like SF4 - with very similar frame data if not exactly the same, that is death on block but on a fully charged hit stuns the opponent for a combo. There’s your universal launcher and new combo trees.
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Adds NJP back i the game
Skarlet: blood trail when amplified links any hit.
Skarlet: parry becomes base across all variations
Skarlet: tentacle becomes base across all variations
Skarlet: last hit of 124, string can be 2in1 canceled 2 frames much earlier.
Skarlet: second hit of f4,3 can be canceled 2 frames much earlier
Skarlet: blood splatter startup reduced to 9f startup
Skarlet: vertical launch on amplified version of blood spatter
Skarlet: b1, startup reduced to 11f

Yes she needs an overhaul, her base kit its trash.
 
I would want every 6 months to be its own season, with some big revamps (of rules like breakaways, what moves exist in what variations, how meter recharges, what you can spend meter on, make previously variation-limited moves core moves for lower tier characters, etc). But with 30+ characters, that'd be kind of design-intensive even if they hadn't already moved everyone to work on INJ3.

What we have is all we're going to ever get.