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What Happened, NRS?!

Juxtapose

Master
To each their own, of course, but I'm not seeing it. The gameplay is good, don't get me wrong, and the pacing is much faster than the previous game, but I still don't see how it's not more restrictive:

  • Limited starters
  • Still doing basically the one same kombo per character over and over.
  • Kameos are not adding in anywhere near the variety I anticipated
  • The whole game has a very been-there-done-that feel to it.
If you are finding the experience quite different, that's fantastic.
 

chud_munson

Apprentice
To each their own, of course, but I'm not seeing it. The gameplay is good, don't get me wrong, and the pacing is much faster than the previous game, but I still don't see how it's not more restrictive:

  • Limited starters
  • Still doing basically the one same kombo per character over and over.
  • Kameos are not adding in anywhere near the variety I anticipated
  • The whole game has a very been-there-done-that feel to it.
If you are finding the experience quite different, that's fantastic.
Isn't all of what you said true of MK11 though (or not relevant to MK11 ie, kameos)? If you mean it's nearly as restrictive, or more restrictive than you thought it would be, that's one thing, but I don't think there's anything that makes it more restrictive than MK11.

I do agree about kameos though, and feel that all but the most broken kameo moves should be ambushes to spice this game up.
 

Juxtapose

Master
Isn't all of what you said true of MK11 though (or not relevant to MK11 ie, kameos)? If you mean it's nearly as restrictive, or more restrictive than you thought it would be, that's one thing, but I don't think there's anything that makes it more restrictive than MK11.

I do agree about kameos though, and feel that all but the most broken kameo moves should be ambushes to spice this game up.
The limited starters/more useless strings is worse in this game, at least to me. Not only am I doing the same kombo over and over, but now I'm also always using 1, maybe 2 starters only. Feels very limited just to get going.
 

chud_munson

Apprentice
The limited starters/more useless strings is worse in this game, at least to me. Not only am I doing the same kombo over and over, but now I'm also always using 1, maybe 2 starters only. Feels very limited just to get going.
Hm, maybe I'm misremembering MK11, but I remember that game being pretty much the same. I certainly don't feel like I was awash with viable strings in MK11. I also feel like more strings become viable with kameos in this game.
 

Juxtapose

Master
Hm, maybe I'm misremembering MK11, but I remember that game being pretty much the same. I certainly don't feel like I was awash with viable strings in MK11. I also feel like more strings become viable with kameos in this game.
For my mains at least, Mileena and Kitana, they had several viable starters, and different strings with different utility. In this game, it's 1,2 for Mileena, and mostly 2,4,1,2 or B2,4 with Kitana. That's it.
 

chud_munson

Apprentice
For my mains at least, Mileena and Kitana, they had several viable starters, and different strings with different utility. In this game, it's 1,2 for Mileena, and mostly 2,4,1,2 or B2,4 with Kitana. That's it.
I'm not familiar with either character in either game, but it might be worth looking at your kameo options to see if it can change that. My first main in MK1 was Reptile who's really limited in terms of his good starters, but I use him with Stryker so that I can safely use his B31 not just as a whiff punisher, and be able to just kinda throw out his F23 and cover with Stryker grenades.
 

ShaolinGunFu

Warrior
Outside of doing non optimal combos for aesthetic novelty, i think creativity should mean different combos have diff purposes. One ender has a hard knockdown yet less damage, one string is good meterless but not good for ex extensions, one option is unbreakable but costs tons of meter, one is swaggy way to end a flawless victory etc
 

Juxtapose

Master
Outside of doing non optimal combos for aesthetic novelty, i think creativity should mean different combos have diff purposes. One ender has a hard knockdown yet less damage, one string is good meterless but not good for ex extensions, one option is unbreakable but costs tons of meter, one is swaggy way to end a flawless victory etc
If you haven't, you should try Killer Instinct.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Outside of doing non optimal combos for aesthetic novelty, i think creativity should mean different combos have diff purposes. One ender has a hard knockdown yet less damage, one string is good meterless but not good for ex extensions, one option is unbreakable but costs tons of meter, one is swaggy way to end a flawless victory etc
This is basically how all NRS games work. Which combo route you choose depends on resources, what side you’d like to place the opponent on, whether they have breaker, and whether you want to cash out for maximum damage or set up oki. With the addition of brutalities for swag.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Outside of doing non optimal combos for aesthetic novelty, i think creativity should mean different combos have diff purposes. One ender has a hard knockdown yet less damage, one string is good meterless but not good for ex extensions, one option is unbreakable but costs tons of meter, one is swaggy way to end a flawless victory etc
Oh like “dare I say“…. INJUSTICE 2?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
  • Limited starters
  • Still doing basically the one same kombo per character over and over.
  • Kameos are not adding in anywhere near the variety I anticipated
  • The whole game has a very been-there-done-that feel to it.
  • The starters are the same as in any other NRS fighting game. There is a usually a jab string used for punishing, a mid string used as a strike / throw mix up, and a long range string used for whiff punishing.
  • Combos routes are character dependent, but with most of the roster, you have to decide whether to use bar or not and kameo meter or not. No such decisions have to be made in Mortal Kombat 11 because of how the meter system functions in that game.
  • This criticism is valid, but this game was designed and influenced with the casual gamer in mind. Offensive options (i.e., mix ups, pressure, set play, and chip damage) are strong while defensive options (i.e., zoning, turtling, and armor for 90% of the characters) are weak. Before Crimson Shadow quotes this post and cherry picks more videos, I encourage you to analyze the current meta critically. Almost invariably, tournament players consider Cage and Kenshi to be the two best characters in this game. They are the best exclusively because of their offensive options. If you genuinely want variety for the characters and kameos, the opposite of what Cage and Kenshi do ought to be a significant factor of the meta, which, I assure you, will never happen for very apparent reasons. Could you imagine a top tier zoning character locking you down full screen away while using a zoning kameo? There would be a riot on Twitter and demands for nerfs instantaneously, even by a fraction of high level players.
  • I have been playing Mortal Kombat for a very long time and I have to admit that the kameos add a certain type of flavor to the game. The system may be flawed by nature, which is another discussion, but the point is that this game plays like no other Mortal Kombat game. So, there is absolutely no "been there, done that" feel to Mortal Kombat 1.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I would argue that kameos actually make certain strings more useful, because they can give properties that the string doesn’t carry on its own.

I think that’s a synergy that should be leaned into as the game develops.

As far as turtling, I’ve seen plenty of it this week alone, includIng the Kolosseum finale between Dragon and Hourglass, which consisted of getting a life lead, backdashing repeatedly, and baiting the other player into making a mistake as they were coming in. Not everything that’s dominant casually works competitively, and the current competitive gameplay is pretty evenly balanced between different styles of playing.

Also Dragon did a really great job of armoring through the lao hat, and that was something that had a big effect on the set. This is something I’ve been talking about for a few weeks now.
 

Juxtapose

Master
The starters are the same as in any other NRS fighting game. There is a usually a jab string used for punishing, a mid string used as a strike / throw mix up, and a long range string used for whiff punishing.
Sure, but again, look at Mileena. It's 1,2. That's pretty much it. Her jab.

Combos routes are character dependent, but with most of the roster, you have to decide whether to use bar or not and kameo meter or not. No such decisions have to be made in Mortal Kombat 11 because of how the meter system functions in that game.
True, but you had to decide whether to cash out a Krushing Blow or not, or whether to Break and use all your Defensive Gauge or not, etc.. They were different systems, but there were still choices to be made.

I encourage you to analyze the current meta critically. Almost invariably, tournament players consider Cage and Kenshi to be the two best characters in this game. They are the best exclusively because of their offensive options.
Agreed here. I was actually explaining to my finace the other day the difference in the game's pacing make, and why Johnny is considered one of the best in the game (his pressure and offence).

The system may be flawed by nature, which is another discussion, but the point is that this game plays like no other Mortal Kombat game.
Interestingly that sums of Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate very well. A lot of good ideas that were not executed in the best fashion, but it was a game that played like no other in the franchise.

So, there is absolutely no "been there, done that" feel to Mortal Kombat 1.
I still need to disagree with this, but it sounds like we're having very different experiences. And that's great; I'm glad you're quite enjoying the game for what it is!
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Sure, but again, look at Mileena. It's 1,2. That's pretty much it. Her jab.
That's not at all how Hourglass plays, and he's definitely the most successful Mileena right now by a long shot. I think it's always good to check out better players before forming hard opinions about how characters should play.

Not every string or normal will be of equal use in any game, but the better MK players have a good sense of when to go for a mid, jab, oh or low, what works best at certain ranges, and when to mix things up to keep your opponent from settling into your patterns.
 

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
I watch The Kolloseum (SP?), and enjoy watching Hourglass. I mostly see 1,2 with the occasional F1,4,4 as a starter. That's about it.
F4 and F2,4,3 are a must for any Mileena player hoping to beat the likes of Raiden, Cage and Kenshi. They are just not fast and far reaching, like 1,2, so you will see them when players are enforcing mixes and meaty games - which might seem as less frequent than 1,2, but those are crucial buttons for Mileena that I do see Hourglass throw out a lot. It's the f3,4 you'll never see.
 

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
Sure, but again, look at Mileena. It's 1,2. That's pretty much it. Her jab.

I dont know which mileena you have in your game,but thats simply not true.

she can start from 12 ,f144,(hitconfrimable mid),21,f24(decent range high,into low thats 0 on block),f34.

she essebtially starts and combos from all of here string so idk what exactly made you think her only starter is 12.

and here combo routes are pretty divers with multiple kinds of launchers without kameo as well as specifics with kameos.
 

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
F4 and F2,4,3 are a must for any Mileena player hoping to beat the likes of Raiden, Cage and Kenshi. They are just not fast and far reaching, like 1,2, so you will see them when players are enforcing mixes and meaty games - which might seem as less frequent than 1,2, but those are crucial buttons for Mileena that I do see Hourglass throw out a lot. It's the f3,4 you'll never see.
why would you not use f34,especially on high punish moves like a subzero slide and the sort,its the highest damage route
 

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
why would you not use f34,especially on high punish moves like a subzero slide and the sort,its the highest damage route
It is the meterless highest damage, yes, but doesnt combo into anything other than roll and has more startup and less range than 1,2, for example. Personally, if I wish to punish HARD, I just do 1,2 into ex up teleport and the rest of the combo... f3,4 can also work after the ex high sai, but you have to be in the corner.
 

Juxtapose

Master
F4 and F2,4,3
F4 isn't a starter; great ender though. I haven't noticed him using F2,4,3, but I'll pay more attention.

f144,(hitconfrimable mid),
Sure, but it's honestly not that great.

Overshadowed by 1,2 as a starter. 2,1 is great mid-kombo.

she essebtially starts and combos from all of here string so idk what exactly made you think her only starter is 12.
Perhaps a better rephrase is 1,2 is generally her only starter worth using most of the time.

why would you not use f34,
It works well against the AI, but against a competent human player, it's slow enough that you oft get blown up. @Felipe_Gewehr answered this better, I just saw.

I mean, here's Hourglass using 3-4 different strings/openers in about 20 seconds worth of game time.
I haven't watched this one yet. I'll be doing that later this week, and we'll see what there is to see.
 

LEGEND

YES!
F4 isn't a starter; great ender though. I haven't noticed him using F2,4,3, but I'll pay more attention.



Sure, but it's honestly not that great.



Overshadowed by 1,2 as a starter. 2,1 is great mid-kombo.



Perhaps a better rephrase is 1,2 is generally her only starter worth using most of the time.



It works well against the AI, but against a competent human player, it's slow enough that you oft get blown up. @Felipe_Gewehr answered this better, I just saw.



I haven't watched this one yet. I'll be doing that later this week, and we'll see what there is to see.
i think you are completely missing how the game works at a high level.

21 needs to be used because its her only safe, fast string. 12 is for footsies, wiff punishing and occasional stagger with Lao hat.

You need F1 to wiff punish pokes or to meaty.

Unless you are trying to beat a gap in pressure, or are reading a situation specific backdash, you should not be pressing 12 up close.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I have a lot of complicated feelings about this game, given that I've put like 366 hours in so far...

Here's the short version:

The moment to moment gameplay is a blast and has a lot of potential depending on how future balance patches/DLC goes.

Invasions mode is playable now, approaching mediocre. Which is a remarked improvement!

The monetization is ass.

The online is absolute dogshit.

Playing this game offline with PS5 us a huge pain in the ass.

I'll elaborate more when I've got more time.