what does NW need to be a better character thats not OP

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

In my humble opinion, NW needs two set ups for a guaranteed lightning.

My options would be:

1) make f2 an overhead move a with slightly faster start up. that way NW could play footsies from outside sweep with a little more confidence. kind of like KL overhead. but not as fast because it allows for a safe jump or lightning.

2) give his arrow slightly faster recovery and make it safe on block...not punishable by full combo. only fast advancing specials should be able to punish it. also give it slightly more hit stun so if someone does manage to hit one an eh lightning is almost free but a reg lightning is jumpable.

3) and give him a 6 frame d3 or d1 but not both.

these options are on a standing opponent. after a juggle a knockdown should be a guess, otherwise it would be an infinite. it give NW an opportunity to make opponents a little less comfortable when he is up close.

call this a "buff" thread if you want but i just want my fav character to have options.

 

[N0rdicNinja]

How do you stand on the f3 being low debate? To powerful?

 

[smokey]

I wouldnt say nightwolf needs anything, his strings are brilliant, his combos are good damaging, he can zone, counterzone, has a fast punisher, good anti airs, has great normals animations with lots of delays so hard to judge when you can and cant let go of block.

All i would give him is better pokes, but i would also consider that having your cake and eating it, nightwolf is a very good character. Hes just not put into enough light because theres too many other characters that do crazy shit and nightwolf is a bit tamer.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

not too powerful. jax f3 is 9 frames (just as fast as nw standing 1). i dont want the buffs to change how the character is played. i think the buffs i suggested enhance my play style but also i think it is the way NW should be played.

 

[Z-911-Z]

The only thing I would say to give NW is to give his shoulder the ability to hit crouching opponents.

 

[UsedForGlue]

If Nightwolfs F3 was a low, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. And it certainly wouldn't be OP, I for one would love him to get a true low from F3, I think it would be only fair.

It's like Lui Kang, his only overheads are his F3, which just stumbles you on hit, no need to panic after that, and it doesn't juggle. You can easily start blocking low as you know his only other overhead would be after 21...Kang plays will have to hit me with 25 F3's before I start blocking high.

If Nightwolf has his F3 as a Low, the same would apply. He has no starting overheads, his only overheads come at the end of his strings, 12(21), 11(2), B2(2), so I really don't see the issue in making it a true low (IF) a buff was coming.

Thoughts?

 

[UsedForGlue]

The only thing I would say to give NW is to give his shoulder the ability to hit crouching opponents.

No man, defiantly not, thats the only way to punish him for it, or else you will just get railed by shoulders all day on block and you won't be able to do jack shit about it.

If anything his shoulder should be un-punishable, and grant more advantage, as right now it's only for a full screen punish and knockdown.

Adding one more hit to his F3 string would be great. It was a 4 hit string even before you finished with an Axe in MK3/UMK3, making it a far better cancelling string than it is in this game.

And if that doesn't change, it should have better advantage on a blocked F31.

 

[Konqrr]

shoulder should hit mid-mid not high-mid.

f2 = overhead

You're good to go.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Have fun discussing, it's not going to happen.

What you should discuss should be "What tools that my character has currently, can be used,improved,etc, to make him a better character now.

 

[Z-911-Z]

I still think it looks dumb when you duck a shoulder and it misses. >_>

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I wouldnt say nightwolf needs anything, his strings are brilliant, his combos are good damaging, he can zone, counterzone, has a fast punisher, good anti airs, has great normals animations with lots of delays so hard to judge when you can and cant let go of block.

All i would give him is better pokes, but i would also consider that having your cake and eating it, nightwolf is a very good character. Hes just not put into enough light because theres too many other characters that do crazy shit and nightwolf is a bit tamer.

I think he is a great character and against most of the cast he can do very well. But looking at the other characters shows me how little NW actually has.

NW has no way to guarantee and ex lightning hits, and it is easily avoided on reaction. he was initially based on EH lightning setups on wakeup but any wakeup attack escapes that now. the only way to make it work now is if its is on a standing opponent.

The only thing I would say to give NW is to give his shoulder the ability to hit crouching opponents.

If f2 hits mid why make should hit crouching opponents? shoulder is good enough already. and i want the lightning set up dont you?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Have fun discussing, it's not going to happen.

What you should discuss should be "What tools that my character has currently, can be used,improved,etc, to make him a better character now.

dont crush my dreams...this is my first ever buff thread. I have given NW all my heart from the beginning and have taken him to the extreme. I have "make shift" lightning traps, I have "make shift" corner resets, but i dont have anything go counter kitanas d1 besides jump kick.

these buffs may only be in my dreams but sometimes dreams come true. I would even sacrifice armor on my eh shoulder for these buffs.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

dont crush my dreams...this is my first ever buff thread. I have given NW all my heart from the beginning and have taken him to the extreme. I have "make shift" lightning traps, I have "make shift" corner resets, but i dont have anything go counter kitanas d1 besides jump kick.

these buffs may only be in my dreams but sometimes dreams come true. I would even sacrifice armor on my eh shoulder for these buffs.

Same for Sindel Jade, etc
but it won't happen

Either go tier whore (like i just did
or put up with it.

imo nightwolf is very solid, just counter pick bad Mu's

 

[DanCock]

Best way to buff nw is by the other characters getting those resets/glitches removed.

Hmm buff?? Maybe what konqrr said. Idk nw is one of those characters that seems if he gets any buff he'll end up op. but a minor one like f2 being over head is enough.


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[smokey]

I think he is a great character and against most of the cast he can do very well. But looking at the other characters shows me how little NW actually has.

NW has no way to guarantee and ex lightning hits, and it is easily avoided on reaction. he was initially based on EH lightning setups on wakeup but any wakeup attack escapes that now. the only way to make it work now is if its is on a standing opponent.


If f2 hits mid why make should hit crouching opponents? shoulder is good enough already. and i want the lightning set up dont you?

Why should EH lightning be guaranteed, thats like saying scorpions EX spear should guaranteed or noobs EX portals guaranteed.
If you used the right setups then you can place the EX Lightning traps well and know that your opponents not going to just wake up attack right through it, and if they consistantly do then you can bait and punish them, theres always a mindgame and mixup behind everything, and i can bet that if it was a guaranteed trap then it wouldnt be intentional.
I dont understand why you think that his EX Lightning needs to be guaranteed anyway, theres nothing wrong with him at the moment, hes solid all round, perhaps you should be looking for better ways to use the tools that you already have instead of speculating on what could have been but never was...

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Why should EH lightning be guaranteed, thats like saying scorpions EX spear should guaranteed or noobs EX portals guaranteed.
If you used the right setups then you can place the EX Lightning traps well and know that your opponents not going to just wake up attack right through it, and if they consistantly do then you can bait and punish them, theres always a mindgame and mixup behind everything, and i can bet that if it was a guaranteed trap then it wouldnt be intentional.
I dont understand why you think that his EX Lightning needs to be guaranteed anyway, theres nothing wrong with him at the moment, hes solid all round, perhaps you should be looking for better ways to use the tools that you already have instead of speculating on what could have been but never was...

I hink your taking this too personally. I'm allowed a little creative thought here. My intention is to make eh lightning easier to hit. To set up eh lightning off a knock down certain conditions need to be met.

I have to wait for the invincibility frames on a normal get up to go away, this allows them 8 frame to start their wakeup attack. If I do it early if wiffs anyway...if I wait to see if they are going to wakeup attack they get out for free just the same. My point is that on startup if I do the eh lightning perfect, they can watch the animation and punish with any wakeup, therefore extending the invincibility allowing characters such as kitana, and kenshi to do wakeups that don't move them but let's them go through the eh litning anyway.

After a f2, eh lightning is guaranteed...that's what I want. I want f2 to be more useable as a poke/footsie tool. And I would prefer if you not tell me to "look" for better ways to utilize his tools. There is no other NW player on my level that has accomplished as much I have with the character. I'm astounded you thnk there are still better ways to use his tools than what I have already done.

This is purely hypothetical and based on what would make him a more well rounded character. No body knows his weak points better than I do and there is no one more qualified to discuss potential buffs (that make sense) than me. Instead of being a kill joy, join in the fun and discuss what you think would make him more well rounded

 

[UsedForGlue]

Have fun discussing, it's not going to happen.

What you should discuss should be "What tools that my character has currently, can be used,improved,etc, to make him a better character now.

That's exactly what we are doing, Having fun discussing the hypathetical ''what if'' scenario, there is no harm in that dude.

And don't worry, me and Fly are the exact sort of guys that constantly search for ways to better our characters.

Are you maining Mileena or Sindel now? Or are you still sticking with Kitana?

 

[UsedForGlue]

I hink your taking this too personally. I'm allowed a little creative thought here. My intention is to make eh lightning easier to hit. To set up eh lightning off a knock down certain conditions need to be met.

I have to wait for the invincibility frames on a normal get up to go away, this allows them 8 frame to start their wakeup attack. If I do it early if wiffs anyway...if I wait to see if they are going to wakeup attack they get out for free just the same. My point is that on startup if I do the eh lightning perfect, they can watch the animation and punish with any wakeup, therefore extending the invincibility allowing characters such as kitana, and kenshi to do wakeups that don't move them but let's them go through the eh litning anyway.

After a f2, eh lightning is guaranteed...that's what I want. I want f2 to be more useable as a poke/footsie tool. And I would prefer if you not tell me to "look" for better ways to utilize his tools. There is no other NW player on my level that has accomplished as much I have with the character. I'm astounded you thnk there are still better ways to use his tools than what I have already done.

This is purely hypothetical and based on what would make him a more well rounded character. No body knows his weak points better than I do and there is no one more qualified to discuss potential buffs (that make sense) than me. Instead of being a kill joy, join in the fun and discuss what you think would make him more well rounded

Hey Fly.

Question:

What is the frame data for NW's F312 on block? Because I know his axe is -6 on block so your rush down ends when its blocked...So I am trying to use hit confirmed on block instead of the Axe (Against certain characters) so I can keep a rush down game going.

Is that viable? I am sure your the guy to ask.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Hey Fly.

Question:

What is the frame data for NW's F312 on block? Because I know his axe is -6 on block so your rush down ends when its blocked...So I am trying to use hit confirmed on block instead of the Axe (Against certain characters) so I can keep a rush down game going.

Is that viable? I am sure your the guy to ask.

It's neutral. It works well if the opponent doesn't expect it. But if they have a 6 frame poke they will beat you of they know it's coming.

I use f312 d3 eh axe, or d3, f312 again. Also watch out for low hitbox characters or anyone with armor cause they can interupt the combo between f3 and 1 if you get predictable.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

That's exactly what we are doing, Having fun discussing the hypathetical ''what if'' scenario, there is no harm in that dude.

And don't worry, me and Fly are the exact sort of guys that constantly search for ways to better our characters.

Are you maining Mileena or Sindel now? Or are you still sticking with Kitana?

My roster is going to be Main: Kitana
SUbs: Sindel, Mileena, Smoke, Sonya

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Neutral jump punch also works well after it if they jump. If the 2 hits you can immediately shoulder to stay in. Or stay back and use eh lightning on get up if the situation calls for it. If your near the corner you can also dash in and catch the range of d1 and link to axe for a corner combo.

 

[Wemfs]

I think his f3 should be a low. I like the idea of f2 being an overhead too.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I feel your pain. I have been thinking about a Sheeva buff for about the last month. And I can't come up with one that wouldn't be to OP.

 

[Konqrr]

My roster is going to be Main: Kitana
SUbs: Sindel, Mileena, Smoke, Sonya

Why is Smoke an alt for Kitana players? Me, You, Shords, lol!

 

[salvificblood]

I would even sacrifice armor on my eh shoulder for these buffs.

Sub-Zero approves all changes.