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what are your personal thoughts in mk11 that holding back to be very good game?

Xelz

Go over there!
Thank you for making this post Dave.

If anyone has been here since the beginning of MK9's release they can tell you how vacillating and contradictory the scene can be.

The community are the people ruining the game in my opinion.

Let's start with MK

I definitely agree with a lot of this.

You'll know better than most people as I know you've been since MK9.

NRS actually do address or implement changes better and more often than pretty much any other developer.

However, the community is vacillating in pretty much every regard.

-MK9-
"I hate that they keep patching the game"

During this time NRS was one pretty much the only developer reading and commenting in forums and having conversations with players and tournament organisers to get the game to where it ended up.

Most of the fuckery that ended up in the game was actually because NRS was pandering too much in regards to community feedback.

-IGUA-

I didn't play this game so much but I know it went from 1.01 to 1.06 and at the end of its life span it came together quite nicely.

This when the NRS Community started becoming known for having their games constantly patched.

-MKX-

"This game is a broken, armored, 50/50 Rushdown fest"

This game came out in 2015 with a wave of new players (which is always nice, tbh) and so much attention was put on the game (Fatal 8, NRS Prize Pooling, etc).

What happened during this time is we all learned that NRS was in fact listening.

So what did that become:

"This move really needs to be an overhead"

"This move really needs to be a low"

"Why doesn't mine launch?"

etc, etc

-i2-

"This game is boring, zoning fest with annoying 50/50s."

This is when NRS started to tone down how often they patched their games because so many people complained about it in previous titles.

All that happened is players complained that the game wasn't getting patched soon enough.

Admittedly, the game had characters and mechanics which were harming the game (just like the previous game) but my point is I feel like they attempted make Injustice 2 the more 'traditional' FG and ramped up the full screen game because players whined so much about running in MKX.

-MK11-

"This game is uncreative and boring"

I can break down so much hypocrisy and contradiction when it comes to this game.

Well, I categorically tell you that when Kustom variations were potentially on the cards for all of us to enjoy the feedback was so negative it never had a chance to come to light.

It's by no means perfect but I want to illustrate part of the mentality that NRS players hold.

"Kustom variations make it impossible for us to know the match and it's going to be broken."

Bro, Marvel Vs Capcom (or any team/assist based game) and so many other FG's have literally thousands (sometimes millions) or permutations within their gameplay and mechanics have been fine.

Now people are begging for Kustoms to return to the game. When it's so clear that it should have be implemented from the beginning.

"This character is so dumb. Why do I have to guess"

Strike/Throw is one the underpinnings of any fighting game and most other games have WAY move mixup than this game does.

Nobody wants to guess at all.

Even though, in the last game we could run up to someone and make them guess a Plus on Block, High/Low (and Left/Right in Injustice), Advancing Mid, Launching combo starter that could be combo'd into a MB Throw Restand (in MKX) for like 50%.

Yet, the idea or having to guess between a teachable throw and a strike is somehow so broken that characters need to be 'deleted'.

"NRS aren't patching the game and responding to feedback"

The game has JUST become one year old.

Even the best developers with the highest budgets don't patch games (especially FGs which mature and develop over time) as much as this community exprcts them to.

"All I see is the same characters in Top 8"

Well, firstly the same few players keep winning (which is fair enough) but we also keep asking for characters to be 'nerfed to the ground' or 'deleted' which in turn negatively affects variety as the top players (and most of the fan boy/bandwagoners) will migrate to a more capable character.

---

I've typed this on my phone so please excuse any grammar and I know that some this opinions could be better articulated but it's been on my mind for a while.

Personally, I feel that making the tournament standard 3/5 rounds like Tekken and allowing the players to create a quick Kustom Loadout would help the game the most.

This game has issues but it's only a year old and most other games take at least 2-3 seasons become decent.

I'm not shilling or riding this game as I do appreciate the community's grievances but a lot of the gameplay we have is because players asked for it.

"Remember when MKX was supposedly too much about 'Long juggle combos' and "Dumb Oki".

Now it's "The combos are boring" and "Wake-ups are too strong"
Great post. It reminded me that, before MK11 launched, those against custom variations complained about how much tech they'd have to learn to deal with all the permutations. Now players are complaining that there isn't enough tech to learn, and the game hasn't even been out a year. Meanwhile, Justin Wong just discovered new Dhalsim tech in MvC2, a game that will be two decades old next month, which may disrupt it's meta.

The MK community can be it's own worst enemy.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Great post. It reminded me that, before MK11 launched, those against custom variations complained about how much tech they'd have to learn to deal with all the permutations. Now players are complaining that there isn't enough tech to learn, and the game hasn't even been out a year. Meanwhile, Justin Wong just discovered new Dhalsim tech in MvC2, a game that will be two decades old next month, which may disrupt it's meta.

The MK community can be it's own worst enemy.
People were complaining that characters’ meta isn’t deep enough.. Then they released Upgraded Jacqui, who is very deep and really fun to play, and I see posts saying that “She doesn’t belong in the game because it’s not Injustice”.

Her kit is exactly what people asked for. It’s flexible, exciting, requires execution and requires you to make quick decisions about how you want to play.

Just like I’ve been seeing people clamoring for a footsies-based game here for 6 years. MK11 is strongly based around the neutral, and certain people can’t handle it because having to be patient and make reads, rather than shoving endless offense down people’s throats, registers to them as boring.

I watched people blow NRS up for being too risky with the meta early in games, leading to the competitive scene being a mess early on with lots of broken characters and tools. They intentionally played it smart with the MK11 launch, leading to the most solid and consistent tournament results we’ve had for any release so far. And the most balanced game we’ve had so far. And instead of applauding them for it, the same group of complainers just bitched for 4 months about custom variations.

The truth is that there’s a specific group of people who will bash every new game, no matter what, for not being the opposite of what it is.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
When MKX was the main game, people HATED the 50/50s, fast pace, and crazy setups. They wanted zoning and play styles other than run in 50/50 to be viable.

Then Injustice 2 came out and Dr. Fate and the launch version of Deadshot (who deserved the hate because he had an entirely busted kit) were powerful zoners. Flash had 50/50s, setups, and high damage combos. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and a few others had strong defensive footsie tools. There were many jack of all trades type characters on the spectrum as well who did better than each other in different categories. By the END of the game's life cycle there was honestly several good characters from any archetype. However, the same people who were craving the slower pace and strong defensive tools during MKX were foaming at the mouth about the zoning and how slow the pace was.

MK11 is it's own thing and they clearly tried very hard to make the game balanced. Like it or not, it's their most balanced game. Once again, people think its too bland and safe, when we have had the opposite and people hated that shit too. Now they're saying ALL of the games are shit except MK9 and how they would play nothing but MK9 on the new systems. Now I didn't play MK9, but I've looked at REO's and a few others tier lists and matchup charts..... Its veryyyyyyy hard for me to imagine the same group of people who have fucking aneurisms over Johnny Cage having a safe special move enjoying a game that is balanced like this. Long term at least, once the nostalgia boner wears off.

I don't even love MK11 all that much, but objectively it is the most impressive game NRS has developed. Not every game is for everyone, maybe this one isn't for me and thats fine. Admitting that takes nothing away from me and the people who do love the game. Lots of people do. A game can't be catered for every single person, because at that point it caters to nobody. NRS hopefully just keeps making what they want and each title wildly different from the last because people just like to bitch.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
I think the mkc knows what they want but it's rather diverse. This sounds like nearly every game.
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
When MKX was the main game, people HATED the 50/50s, fast pace, and crazy setups. They wanted zoning and play styles other than run in 50/50 to be viable.

Then Injustice 2 came out and Dr. Fate and the launch version of Deadshot (who deserved the hate because he had an entirely busted kit) were powerful zoners. Flash had 50/50s, setups, and high damage combos. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and a few others had strong defensive footsie tools. There were many jack of all trades type characters on the spectrum as well who did better than each other in different categories. By the END of the game's life cycle there was honestly several good characters from any archetype. However, the same people who were craving the slower pace and strong defensive tools during MKX were foaming at the mouth about the zoning and how slow the pace was.

MK11 is it's own thing and they clearly tried very hard to make the game balanced. Like it or not, it's their most balanced game. Once again, people think its too bland and safe, when we have had the opposite and people hated that shit too. Now they're saying ALL of the games are shit except MK9 and how they would play nothing but MK9 on the new systems. Now I didn't play MK9, but I've looked at REO's and a few others tier lists and matchup charts..... Its veryyyyyyy hard for me to imagine the same group of people who have fucking aneurisms over Johnny Cage having a safe special move enjoying a game that is balanced like this. Long term at least, once the nostalgia boner wears off.

I don't even love MK11 all that much, but objectively it is the most impressive game NRS has developed. Not every game is for everyone, maybe this one isn't for me and thats fine. Admitting that takes nothing away from me and the people who do love the game. Lots of people do. A game can't be catered for every single person, because at that point it caters to nobody. NRS hopefully just keeps making what they want and each title wildly different from the last because people just like to bitch.
I will echo a lot of what Dankster said, and also add in that I find MK11 pretty enjoyable and also quite hard. By that, I mean that I find it difficult to do well (e.g., consistently progress in Kombat League), where my patience, fundamentals, reads, decision-making, and overall skill feel like they are much more tested in this game. From that perspective, I like MK11, it's a much more difficult game for me to do well in compared to previous NRS games I've played (Inj1 and Inj2), which I appreciate.
 

Komatose

The Prettiest
Let the winner skip cutscenes please god !!
Fatal blow once per match blocked hit or whiff
Do something with the buffer windows my execution has gone to shit cause nothing is consistent but i wouldnt know how to do that
Fatal blow and krushing blow animations halved
Get rid of the weird load screen animation where you pick your char and it does this glitchy thing where its tryin to load your customs its dumb just make it instant
Wifi filter or lower the quot threshold to 100 ms
Allow customs, people worried about matchup knowledge but the chars are very one dimensional so i doubt it will be a big issue
Can we just have a one button tech or am i being too scrubby?
Those are my gripes (there may be more) but i do enjoy the game mostly
This doesn’t sound quite bad. I like it.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
These dumb ass customs that no one wanted, bland ass combo system (if you can even land a combo without your opponent breaking away), and questionable balance changes.

Why, 9 months in, does Cassie’s flip still exist in its current state? Why nerf Skarlet’s already shitty teleport even further just because of Cetrion? Why did it take 9 months for Kitana to actually get an U2 that connects 90% of the time.

Like what the actual fuck is NRS doing over there?

Then we’re blessed with a 25 minute Joker cast, no mention of the state of the game besides a few balance changes, and Tyler looking like he’s homeless. It’s all just very frustrating lol
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
These dumb ass customs that no one wanted, bland ass combo system (if you can even land a combo without your opponent breaking away), and questionable balance changes.

Why, 9 months in, does Cassie’s flip still exist in its current state? Why nerf Skarlet’s already shitty teleport even further just because of Cetrion? Why did it take 9 months for Kitana to actually get an U2 that connects 90% of the time.

Like what the actual fuck is NRS doing over there?

Then we’re blessed with a 25 minute Joker cast, no mention of the state of the game besides a few balance changes, and Tyler looking like he’s homeless. It’s all just very frustrating lol
True, not to mention we've had like what 6 major patches now and not one substantial change to Raiden....what are they doing over there indeed, I mean shit they cant even get their sound synced properly on a basic stream kast nevermind balancing their own game lol.

Oh and nice foxy doggy thing in your avatar, lol hes cute.
 
If they keep patching like they have been...then nothing. They seem to listen but have to not change too much too fast. I like the jump kick tuning and the character changes but think the middle and bottom need to come up a tad bit and the top needs to be tuned down like Geras. That said, after this patch the game is in its best state.
 

MuMuGuy

Noob
If they keep patching like they have been...then nothing. They seem to listen but have to not change too much too fast. I like the jump kick tuning and the character changes but think the middle and bottom need to come up a tad bit and the top needs to be tuned down like Geras. That said, after this patch the game is in its best state.
That doesn’t say much since the game has been godawful since launch. That’s not unlike people saying Season 4 of Street Fighter V was the best... I’d hope the hell so when Capcom finally patched out shit like 8f delay abuse, throw loops, anti-air jabs, Trigger robbery, etc.

Mortal Kombat 11 still sucks btw. At least this game will still survive as long as there are scrubs, because this is their game. This game is for the scrubs that don’t like how “anime” BlazBlue Cross Tag is.
 

Error404

Noob
The game would retain a much bigger player base if the ranked mode was actually a ranked mode .

Currently , it is impossible to not get ranks , even if you win 25-30% of matches , simply because you barely lose points .Really , it just shows how much grinding you've done.

Stop reseting the ranks constantly. Or atleast have placement matches , that determine your starting spot .You can't play against opponents of your skill most of the time ,unless you grind.

Stop with the whole "off season" BS too.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Too many fun specials hidden behind customs.
I would argue that MK11 IS a very good game, but this is easily my biggest critique of the game, as well.

The game is basically a giant tease. The game appears to have been designed with the intention of making custom variations street legal. But then they got scared. This is very unfortunate, because it will always feel like we are only allowed to play half of the game. Frankly, it is fascinating to me that they don't seem to get this. NRS has this strange habit of frustrating its fans. The decision to not let custom variations ride is a CLASSIC example of this.

I sincerely believe MK11 would already be considered the greatest NRS game of all time if they just trusted their first instinct and let customs ride.

There is no bigger mistake a company can make than teasing its fans, and unfortunately, MK11 spends too much time teasing all of us.
 
That doesn’t say much since the game has been godawful since launch. That’s not unlike people saying Season 4 of Street Fighter V was the best... I’d hope the hell so when Capcom finally patched out shit like 8f delay abuse, throw loops, anti-air jabs, Trigger robbery, etc.

Mortal Kombat 11 still sucks btw. At least this game will still survive as long as there are scrubs, because this is their game. This game is for the scrubs that don’t like how “anime” BlazBlue Cross Tag is.
Um...your post says one of us needs a nap. It's only been 9 months since release. They don't need to overhaul every aspect, that's how things that are truly broken creep in...