What approach should NRS take to balancing their next game?

[WalkingTaco]

NRS has a weird history with balancing their games. MK9 and INJ1 were unbalanced as hell and pretty much meme fighters competitively. MKX was decently balanced but still had some busted stuff. I didn’t pay that much attention to INJ2 so idk about that. And whether you like the game or not, MK11 is the most balanced NRS game. But the way they balanced it wasn’t the best. Balancing the game by limiting character depth/options, and combo potential wasn’t a great idea IMO. I feel like they needlessly sacrificed the fun factor for balance in MK11. So how can they keep their next game balanced while having the fun factor of MK9/MKX?

 

[The_Tile]

I think they need to take what they've learned from both MKX and MK11 and take an approach that sits somewhere in the middle.

Either make patches with small changes like MK11, so no characters get utterly demolished or rocket to god tier overnight. However release them a bit more frequently so if there is an obvious issue the small tweaks in the right direction will balance problem characters out a bit more frequently.

Or, leave quite a while between patches like they have in MK11, but actually include some sizeable changes in said patches. The game will have had enough time to breathe between these patches so they should have enough information to make informed decisions about any characters that need to be changed.

Either option is viable imo, not a big fan of how they patched MK11. They did a complete 180 from how they patched previous games but went a bit overboard, sitting somewhere between the two would be just right.

 

[Juggs]

They should give it a few months after release. Then the first balance patch should be fixing all the bugs/glitches of course, but then slightly buffing all the characters that are perceived at the time to be bottom tier. Nothing crazy yet, just giving them slight boosts. And as long as none of the top tiers have anything game breaking, leave them alone for the time being. You can do very slight tweaks to the top 3-5 or so, but only super minor stuff.

Then a few months from that, aka 6 months from release, they do a big balance patch. This will also be fixing any of the bugs/glitches, but then super buffing the bottom tier, and minor buffs to the mid tier. Again, if the top tier at this point don’t have anything game breaking, definitely leave them alone at this point.

This allows every character to be somewhat viable, and doesn’t force people who have been maining certain top tier characters to have to abandon their characters. While simultaneously rewarding those who stuck with the lower tiered characters.

And I’d repeat this process. Where in 3 months after this, have the slight buffs to the bottom, and very very minor tweaks/nerfs to the top 3-5 or so. Then in 3 months after that, another large balance patch where you’d again super buff bottom, slightly buff mid, and probably leave the top alone aside from super game breaking stuff, just like before. So just repeating the process. Every 6 months huge balance patch where bottom gets big buffs and mid get mid buffs, and every 3 months just minor tweaks like slight buffs to bottom, slight nerfs to top. Repeat.

This would be the balancing philosophy I’d at least try and see how it worked out. Doubt we’ll ever actually see something like this, but it’d definitely be something I’d want to see.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

They need to ditch this idea of kustom variations and give us fully-designed characters.

 

[Marlow]

They need to ditch this idea of kustom variations and give us fully-designed characters.

I'm one of the few who doesn't mind custom variations, but I'd be happy to just get rid of it simply for one less complication.

 

[Juxtapose]

I'm one of the few who doesn't mind custom variations, but I'd be happy to just get rid of it simply for one less complication.

I'm in the same boat as Marlow. I don't mind Variations, but would have no issue having traditional characters either.

 

[Marlow]

I feel like the "fun factor" was less about balance and more about pace/damage/combo length.

I generally liked the approach that NRS took with MK11 in regards to balancing. They erred on the side of caution, and mostly stuck to trying to balance characters at the top and bottom of the tiers.

 

[Gooberking]

They need to ditch this idea of kustom variations and give us fully-designed characters.

Think it's pretty unlikely they will break formula. They have been building it up game by game and may adjust stuff, but seem to keep everything.

And you have people like me. Variations are probably the only reason I've played the characters I've played in X and 11. I didn't play Hollywood, piercing, or swarm queen. I wouldn't be playing Frost because everyone else is obsessed with a move I have zero interest in using.

The only time I've ever felt like my character was incomplete in an NRS title was in IJ2 where the competitive stuff didn't get any of the gear content and it felt like we were stuck splashing around in the soup broth instead of whole soup. (Don't have opinions on MK9 or IJ)

I was mostly fine with the balance pacing of 11. They use analytics to help figure out what needs adjustment across all skill levels. Dont think they care much for my balancing hot takes; though I'm not sure I have many.

 

[Eddy Wang]

They need to stop redesgning animations and movesets of characters with sucessful formula

 

[Arqwart]

They need to ditch this idea of kustom variations and give us fully-designed characters.

If custom variations are a thing once again, they sure as hell better be from the get go so they can spend the game's lifetime balancing it instead of unleashing it on the playerbase in a shit state then walking away.

 

[Swindle]

They should balance the f*cking game before it releases.
Then, no earlier than a year later.
Stop babying the community with these little microfixes that do nothing but muddle the meta.
One year.

 

[Law Hero]

I've said it before, but I don't think NRS's current strategy of making each new entry completely different from the last makes it possible to have a game that's both deep and balanced. Two or so years to create a new fighting system and reinvent or rework all the characters while at the same time ensuring that it's perfectly balanced is too monumental a task. It's like getting 2+ years of data/experience, then throwing most of it away and starting from scratch.

I would rather NRS make incremental changes each entry to further expand the meta and refine the mechanics and cast instead of making each entry drastically different from the last. It's not the most exciting way of doing things, but if you've got a solid foundation, I'd prefer it be built on and expanded upon instead of almost entirely reworked every few years.

Also, most probably won't agree, but if they didn't spend so much time and money on a big cinematic story mode, they could use those resources to create more gameplay-related features and modes. I think the cinematic story mode has been old and tired for a while now, and should be shelved. I actually believe the current style of story mode is one of the worst things to happen to NRS games in recent history (alongside guest DLC), and has done more harm than good since MK9.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

They need to not make things that are extra powerful because they have difficult execution. (Instant-air fireballs, I'm looking at you.)
Probably not have moves that push back full screen on block.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I just want some context on the decisions in their patch notes.

 

[Sutter Pain]

I just don't think its possible to make the majority happy when NRS games are supported for barely 2 years. Do they wait almost half the supported lifespan to make changes or start right away with nerfs and buffs and have people say they are "Knee Jerking"?

 

[Second Saint]

Honestly, the people who want them to not touch anything for a year are idiots. These games will not ever be in a good state on day 1. To accomplish that, NRS would have to run an extended open beta for months, which they aren't going to do. No matter how hard they try, no matter how well they do, a game that has not had contact with the public at large will not be balanced. Things will be missed, misjudged, and even misguided and much of that will become apparent as a problem week 1 if not day 1.

The best you're going to get is incremental balance changes every month until a large balance patch a little later on, after which the game should be in a good enough position to let rest. During this period, they'll go too far for some and not far enough for others. Personally, I'm usually in the not far enough camp. There were characters that had easily identifiable massive issues from day 1 of MK11 that took two years to address. So yeah, more changes than they did in MK11, less than in MKX. Just don't be afraid to make characters good. I can't do the low tier character Loyalist life in another NRS game again. Not strong enough anymore

 

[Swindle]

Honestly, the people who want them to not touch anything for a year are idiots. These games will not ever be in a good state on day 1. To accomplish that, NRS would have to run an extended open beta for months, which they aren't going to do. No matter how hard they try, no matter how well they do, a game that has not had contact with the public at large will not be balanced. Things will be missed, misjudged, and even misguided and much of that will become apparent as a problem week 1 if not day 1.

The best you're going to get is incremental balance changes every month until a large balance patch a little later on, after which the game should be in a good enough position to let rest. During this period, they'll go too far for some and not far enough for others. Personally, I'm usually in the not far enough camp. There were characters that had easily identifiable massive issues from day 1 of MK11 that took two years to address. So yeah, more changes than they did in MK11, less than in MKX. Just don't be afraid to make characters good. I can't do the low tier character Loyalist life in another NRS game again. Not strong enough anymore

Guess what?
Six months out, the game still wasn’t balanced.
A year out…still not balanced.
Two years out, still not balanced.
Some of the communities hard on for this elusive “balance” prevents real discovery and learning of the game. They have fixed fixed fixed in increments, and have not “balanced” anything.
what you want doesn’t exist.
they need to let the game become something stable before they can accurately diagnose & correct the problems.

 

[Marlow]

Some of the communities hard on for this elusive “balance” prevents real discovery and learning of the game.

That's usually one of my chief concerns.

 

[Revy]

Their approach will be same as last time (MK11), the time before that (IJ2), the time before that (MKX), the time before that (IGAU) & the time before that (MK9): Poorly & lazily.

Honestly, look at MKX & tell me that they play-tested Alien (Tarkatan) before her release after just nerfing Tanya (Kobu Jitsu)?

 

[Juxtapose]

Their approach will be same as last time (MK11), the time before that (IJ2), the time before that (MKX), the time before that (IGAU) & the time before that (MK9): Poorly & lazily.

Honestly, look at MKX & tell me that they play-tested Alien (Tarkatan) before her release after just nerfing Tanya (Kobu Jitsu)?

On a complete aside, I absolutely respect you calling the Xeno "her." Someone knows their lore.

 

[Revy]

On a complete aside, I absolutely respect you calling the Xeno "her." Someone knows their lore.

What can I say? I know my stuff.

 

[Second Saint]

Guess what?
Six months out, the game still wasn’t balanced.
A year out…still not balanced.
Two years out, still not balanced.
Some of the communities hard on for this elusive “balance” prevents real discovery and learning of the game. They have fixed fixed fixed in increments, and have not “balanced” anything.
what you want doesn’t exist.
they need to let the game become something stable before they can accurately diagnose & correct the problems.

I agree that there's no such thing as true balance (even chess isn't totally balanced with white having a slight statistical advantage from moving first), the problem is that you for some reason believe that they can get the game to a stable state before release, which is 100% not ever going to happen. There is no real beta, so on release there will always be glaring issues that anyone with a brain can accurately say isn't going to work. As I recall, Shinnok wasn't even a finished character until the first patch of MK X. They went too hard with the buffs after that, but at least he was a real boy at that point.

And since we're pointing out arbitrary dates on a timeline, why is it so important that it be left alone immediately for the meta to develop? Why not 3 months of actually trying to fix things before a year of no balance? During that three months post release, NRS is obviously able to make more informed decisions than they are pre-release. Or need I remind you of the absolute slaughter the day 0 patch was on some characters for MK 11? This is the method I would actually like to happen, and what I recommended in my previous post, though that perhaps wasn't clear. Short periods of change followed by long periods of analysis.

 

[Revy]

Factually the only 100% balanced games are games like Karate Champ, Footies: Rollback Edition & SFI because you & your opponent are playing the exact character with the same exact moveset.

 

[Swindle]

I agree that there's no such thing as true balance (even chess isn't totally balanced with white having a slight statistical advantage from moving first), the problem is that you for some reason believe that they can get the game to a stable state before release, which is 100% not ever going to happen. There is no real beta, so on release there will always be glaring issues that anyone with a brain can accurately say isn't going to work. As I recall, Shinnok wasn't even a finished character until the first patch of MK X. They went too hard with the buffs after that, but at least he was a real boy at that point.

And since we're pointing out arbitrary dates on a timeline, why is it so important that it be left alone immediately for the meta to develop? Why not 3 months of actually trying to fix things before a year of no balance? During that three months post release, NRS is obviously able to make more informed decisions than they are pre-release. Or need I remind you of the absolute slaughter the day 0 patch was on some characters for MK 11? This is the method I would actually like to happen, and what I recommended in my previous post, though that perhaps wasn't clear. Short periods of change followed by long periods of analysis.

Nah, my way is better.

 

[Second Saint]

Nah, my way is better.

Cool, good talk.