General/Other - Hellfire Were the other nerfs intended?

[Scoot Magee]

I think we all knew that Scorpion was going to lose his FBC jail string eventually. Do you think they unintentionally nerfed him in other areas just by reducing the cancel advantage on some moves? Some combos no longer work on the average and small size characters anymore, new BnB combos replaced the old ones though which is fine.

The main thing that disappoints me is that now EX Fireball is kinda useless (unless somebody found a good use for it). No string can cancel into it without leaving a huge gap. I don't think it would have been unfair for Scorpion to be able to end a string at + frames at the cost of a bar so long as FBC's were nerfed.

I still think the character is good but do you guys think the nerf was intended?

 

[NariTuba]

From the standpoint of character design, I dont think scorpion needs +frames pressure unless other parts of his game were nerfed to allow for that in that particular variation.

Was the nerf necessary? probably not.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I would have been okay for EX FBC's to Jail, this is my initial thought.

My next thought is:
What's happened has happened, everyone affected my the nerf has had it's mourning time and everyone should move on and focus on the new way to play, and finding the new optimal strategies. Whether something was or was not necessary is irrelevant, focus on what you have to work with now and adapt.

 

[Ze Dingo]

I dropped Inferno for Hellfire. After the recent patch, I dropped Hellfire for Ninjutsu.

 

[Ares_Supreme]

This character is a mess. He feels buggy in a lot of spots when doing combos the enemy like jerks lower and throws off my timing considerably. I play him only when I have to.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

What I don't get is where Minion Grab's scaling was nerfed...that variation was already struggling to stay afloat and now it's sunk.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I'm just really asking if you guys think it was intended. I know it is what it is and to move on, I'm just curious if they knew they were nerfing that part of the character as well. It's a slow start up, high fireball that is plus on block. It was totally useful before but I can't find any practical use now at all for it. Not even sure why it would be + on block if you can't do anything with it.

I'm not saying he needed it to be viable, I think the character is still good at the moment. I just don't think it needed to be taken away considering what else is in the game. Still Scorpion does have a ton of frame traps, the EX FB would have just enhanced what he has now. Honestly though with the way they went about the nerf I'm pretty positive it will never come back.

 

[Ares_Supreme]

Im pretty sure it was all intentional unfortunately. It just feels sloppy

 

[Scoot Magee]

This character is a mess. He feels buggy in a lot of spots when doing combos the enemy like jerks lower and throws off my timing considerably. I play him only when I have to.

Yeah juggles seem a little more tight after teleports but I got used to the timing. Not that big a deal but if you want the old damage 123 is kind of inconsistent.

 

[Matix218]

I would have been okay for EX FBC's to Jail, this is my initial thought.

My next thought is:
What's happened has happened, everyone affected my the nerf has had it's mourning time and everyone should move on and focus on the new way to play, and finding the new optimal strategies. Whether something was or was not necessary is irrelevant, focus on what you have to work with now and adapt.

Scoot was not saying not to adapt or that he was upset about it. He was just asking opinions on if we thought it was intentional or a byproduct of nrs trying to specifically fix hellfires fbrc pressure.

But as for my opinion, no, I dint think it was intentional except for trying to fix the hellfire fbrc pressure. Thankfully for hellfire, there is plenty more dirt that will be found with his existing fbrc and I still think he's good. Inferno basically just got a damage nerf (and a slight one at that) once you adopt the new bnbs. And ninjitsu is freaking awesome now, so the scorpion community is good too go imo. I wonder if he will be changed further in the predator patch?

 

[Magnum Magpie]

They shouldn't have taken away Tanya's armor on her teleport there were ways around it, no people are bitching about her invinsibilty. Guarantied nrs are going to make Tanya a piece of trash before Evo. Shame

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scoot was not saying not to adapt or that he was upset about it. He was just asking opinions on if we thought it was intentional or a byproduct of nrs trying to specifically fix hellfires fbrc pressure.

But as for my opinion, no, I dint think it was intentional except for trying to fix the hellfire fbrc pressure. Thankfully for hellfire, there is plenty more dirt that will be found with his existing fbrc and I still think he's good. Inferno basically just got a damage nerf (and a slight one at that) once you adopt the new bnbs. And ninjitsu is freaking awesome now, so the scorpion community is good too go imo. I wonder if he will be changed further in the predator patch?

I don't think they'll touch Scorpion anymore honestly. I've heard some complaints of flame aura lately but I'm hoping NRS isn't listening lol.

I was always a big fan of Ninjitsu but Hellfire made it not worth using. Now with the damage buff it's actually good. I think Hellfire has the edge but I think Ninjitsu can be a better pick in certain match ups.

 

[Matix218]

They shouldn't have taken away Tanya's armor on her teleport there were ways around it, no people are bitching about her invinsibilty. Guarantied nrs are going to make Tanya a piece of trash before Evo. Shame

are you posting from the future? Do you drive a delorian?

 

[Magnum Magpie]

are you posting from the future? Do you drive a delorian?

Take a wild guess

 

[Scott The Scot]

Scoot was not saying not to adapt or that he was upset about it. He was just asking opinions on if we thought it was intentional or a byproduct of nrs trying to specifically fix hellfires fbrc pressure.

I know. Well, how can you have an opinion on that? How can anyone? Like, there's no way for us to know or deduce that; the best we can do is guess and then say that the guess is our opinion. So that's why I'm saying there isn't anything good (that I can see) going to come of talking about that specifically when you could be talking about the new strategies.

I see it as there's no doubt NRS knew it would change the combo's and change a lot, but they HAD to fix FBC pressure, and unfortunately the other stuff had to go with it - but that's the price for nerfing something so good, other stuff had to suffer.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I know. Well, how can you have an opinion on that? How can anyone? Like, there's no way for us to know or deduce that; the best we can do is guess and then say that the guess is our opinion. So that's why I'm saying there isn't anything good (that I can see) going to come of talking about that specifically when you could be talking about the new strategies.

I see it as there's no doubt NRS knew it would change the combo's and change a lot, but they HAD to fix FBC pressure, and unfortunately the other stuff had to go with it - but that's the price for nerfing something so good, other stuff had to suffer.

It's not like this site is short on uninformed opinions lol. Honestly though I know people that work at NRS post here so maybe we'll get some information.

 

[Matix218]

I don't think they'll touch Scorpion anymore honestly. I've heard some complaints of flame aura lately but I'm hoping NRS isn't listening lol.

I was always a big fan of Ninjitsu but Hellfire made it not worth using. Now with the damage buff it's actually good. I think Hellfire has the edge but I think Ninjitsu can be a better pick in certain match ups.

I agree. I think (barring further changes) that hellfire will still end up being the best variation once fully fleshed out and that ninjitsu will also be a great pick (possibly even better than hellfire in certain matchups). My main character focuses now are ninjitsu scorp and grandmaster sub because they are the two characters that I enjoy playing most. I think you are right though this will probably end up being the scorp that we get. Do you think that you could still potentially win a major tournament with all scorpion (only changing variations)? Do you know if any scorpion mains are going to EVO? I know slips is not

 

[Scott The Scot]

It's not like this site is short on uninformed opinions lol.

Here here! I'll drink to that haha.

 

[Slips]

I think for whatever reason, it was too hard to lessen the block stun on Scorp's 214 in the code and the easier and safer fix was to change the cancel advantage on 214 instead. This unintentionally messed up his old bnb combos and hurt the one string he could safely jail into ex fireball. I think D'Vorah's string had a similar fix.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. A character shouldn't be determined how good they are based on 1 string which is what Hellfire was.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I agree. I think (barring further changes) that hellfire will still end up being the best variation once fully fleshed out and that ninjitsu will also be a great pick (possibly even better than hellfire in certain matchups). My main character focuses now are ninjitsu scorp and grandmaster sub because they are the two characters that I enjoy playing most. I think you are right though this will probably end up being the scorp that we get. Do you think that you could still potentially win a major tournament with all scorpion (only changing variations)? Do you know if any scorpion mains are going to EVO? I know slips is not

MIT most likely is but I think he'll be playing Tanya now. As far as winning a major I really can't say, this game changes every couple of weeks so we'll never really know whats going to happen. I can say that nobody won any majors with pre nerf Scorpion and now that there's DLC and other characters being fleshed out/buffed. It's really hard to even tell whats going on when they're buffing and nerfing like crazy within the first 3 months of the games life when people really don't know anything.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think for whatever reason, it was too hard to lessen the block stun on Scorp's 214 in the code and the easier and safer fix was to change the cancel advantage on 214 instead. This unintentionally messed up his old bnb combos and hurt the one string he could safely jail into ex fireball. I think D'Vorah's string had a similar fix.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. A character shouldn't be determined how good they are based on 1 string which is what Hellfire was.

I pretty much agree with you. I don't see how else they could have nerfed the jail on FBC without changing the cancel advantage. I know that st4 jailed into FBC pressure though as well so that must have been nerfed. I'm not sure if it jailed into a FB though.

 

[Slips]

I pretty much agree with you. I don't see how else they could have nerfed the jail on FBC without changing the cancel advantage. I know that st4 jailed into FBC pressure though as well so that must have been nerfed. I'm not sure if it jailed into a FB though.

Yea I thought we could still use standing 4 for pressure but that was stealth nerfed as well. I think it's obvious Paulo had no intention of the cancel stuff to jail into eachother and he eliminated them by any means necessary. Fair enough.

I think the added scaling on low demon in Inferno is the most painful Scorpion nerf personally.

 

[OutworldKeith]

The stealth nerfs point to it being intended IMO.

Inferno is basically MK9 Noob Saibot with the low demon scaling.

 

[WakeUp DP]

And why the hell did they make it harder for it to land a 21xxspear after 214xxTP? Chars don't bounce as high anymore.

 

[IROC]

214 was what i based everything from with my starters, juggles, hit confirms. It was the meat and potatoes of his play. Ninj got damage buff, but the crippled 214 makes his bnbs less now. Hes just "awkward" now.