PLAYING TO WIN
Noob
TYM and readers,
I will start off by saying I am a very big fan of Injustice. The game has been very well received by the community. I will also say, a storm is coming. Now you may be wondering, "Who is this guy playing to win? Isn't that the guy Fanatiq went off on?" Just to give the readers a very small 'Who am I". My name is Matt. I am a Father, Husband, Dr. of Ortho and Physical Therapy, wrestled for 18 years and a habitual fighting game player. I have by no means set the world on fire but have had some small success and fun doing it. I co-started Console Combat and have an offline scene that includes M2Dave, MasterD, Ribbz, THTB, Forever King and more. Personally, I travel to a lot of events though not as many as I would like to. I have been able to take several top 8/16s in a few majors at the beginning of mk9, have won multiple pools at majors over the last 4 years in SSF4 AE with Dhalsim, and I have a lot of top 16s/32s at majors like winter brawl, seasons beatings, UFGT and others. More importantly, I was able to pull the resources together to start Console Combat and provide local/regional players a competitive/social outlet for fighting games that attracted players from Ohio, MI, PA and NY.
Injustice has now been out ~2.5 months and it has emerged as a top game in the competitive scene and with the casual gamer. Who doesn't want to take control of their most beloved comic characters and beat people up? For the gamer who uses video games as a chance to compete, it is a new beginning. A chance to take your knowledge from other games and apply it to Injustice in an endless race to prove your are better than your opponent. There are a few topics that have been attracting a flurry of conversation and debate. A few things I would like to provide an opinion on are: balance and considerations, scorpion/ban, The NRS Perspective,
NeatherRealm Studios (NRS) has recently given us two huge games in MK9 and Injustice. Unlike any other game development team, they have provided the community with the thought that everyone's opinions matter. They have a consistent presence at major tournaments, are frequently in streams and also post on this very site. The team consistently patches unintentional aspects of game-play and re-balances for perceived over/under powered aspects of play. Although other games have communities that request nerfs or upgrades, I have never seen it as prevalent as it is in the NRS community. There is one reason for this... NRS occasionally listens. It gives all levels of players the idea that their opinion, does indeed, matter. In addition, the team has also sought out the opinions of Tournament Proven players. This has ranged from one week limited access, to ~1 month with partial rosters to full access to the game several months before it was released. Testers had different levels of involvement including working on the Prima Guide, iOS app and balancing/glitch finding.
Concerning Balance, we need to understand that the Team at NRS has final say what will get including/excluding/patched/nerfed/buffed... We, the community, have no way of truly knowing what this process has entailed relative to Injustice. NRS may have ignored some suggestions or even made changes against the advice of those they sought opinions of. In the end, it is NRS's game. When you consider changes or the build of a character, it MUST be considered how these changes will effect all matchups across the board. Remember, this is a for profit business. There may be ulterior motives to make one character better than another. It can be speculated that the Man of Steel movie has had some play into superman's balance or Ed Boon's desire to keep an MK character in the lime light. Could it be possible that everyone has made fun of Aqua Man so the NRS team decided to stick it to the naysayers and make him strong. It is like the government, only a few people really know whats going on or the motives for a characters balance.
When you consider a move/special move you take into considerations so many things. It is hard to verbalize without giving specific examples. Lets look at Batgirl's smoke bomb. It is full screen and extremely fast. This has incredible viability and lead to meterless reset situations. However, bc the move is so strong it is punishable on block. Consider the risk reward here. It is a balanced move. Killer Frost's Slide trip guards, juggles for 40% damage to true 50/50 reset situations and is safe on block. This is not a balanced move when considering risk reward. Staying consistent with Batgirl's Smoke Bomb, I would expect it to be -9 or 10 and require a mid hitting attack to punish. Green lantern's Might is punishable on block appropriately. Considering the risk reward here. If lanterns might was safe the range on the move would need to be considerable decreased. I will provide some move in depth analysis later. I just hope to give you, the readers, some building blocks to my points about Scorpion's Meter Burn Teleport.
As test your might plays host to all levels of players from Evo Champions to consistent top 8 major finishers to online warriors to casual gamers who may have stumbled across the site when they Google'ed something. To balance a game that caters to ALL levels is a task I would never want to take on. When you have characters on the extreme of Rush Down/Zoning they will always be considered an issue and be complained about in your mid level/casual gamer. So when a thread pops up about how brain dead Death Stroke is... it only applied to mid level/casual gamers. In high level play the character is not an issues and was extremely punishable/manageable pre-patch. The point is, a players skill level is important to consider when reading their opinions.
When discussing tiers and "who beats who" the previous paragraph could not be more important to explain this point. A tier is something to provides guidance to a characters overall balance and viability. A TIER ONLY MATTERS AT THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST LEVEL OF PLAY. All other discussions outside of this level are purely speculative and use for excuses. When talking about Batman you have to talk about Reo/Forever King's batman. When talking about Green Arrow you have to talk about Chris G's Green arrow. When talking about Akuma you have to consider Infiltration's. Jax = Tyrant/CD Jr. Kensi = Pig of the Hut. Kung Lao = Perfect Legend's. Get my point here guys? Injustice is still considered in its infancy. Pardon the continued SF4 references but did you guys know that C.Viper was considered absolute trash for the first year or so of the game? As the game evolved she emerged as a top 5 character. Look at MK9... look at how many people said Jax was not good. how many tournaments did Jr and Tyrant succeed in?
Although I am a big proponent of letting things play out and letting games evolve before jumping to conclusions, Injustice has an exception in Scorpion. I have an opinion of the character but I care about proven Major tournament winner's opinions even more. There is an overwhelming outcry for the tools this character possesses from some of the best players to pick up a stick/controller. I am going to offer an unbiased view and hopefully summarize what is going on right now. Since Super Turbo's Akuma, I have never seen a character with tools that allow him to completely control a match. The meterburn Teleport. NRS attempted to give us a knee jerk hotfix that actually buffed the character in some ways. The non-meterburn teleport whiffing is less than 12 frames when considering a players average reaction time in match situations. It is rarely punished in flurry situations by very good players. Let us take a look at the tools this character possesses and let you, the reader, compare him to other characters in the game:
Scorpion:
-- the ability to NEVER be cornered
-- the ability to punish interactables from mid/full screen on reaction to full combo's ending in reset situations
-- unblockable mid hitting hellfire that starts up in 26 frames! Punishing/Whiff Punishing more than half of the zoning tools in the game.
-- MB teleport works as a parry in some situations were you can mash it through untrue block strings for full punish
-- The best Jump 3 in the entire game that leads to huge adv on block and full combo's on hit no matter where in the jump arc it hits
-- non mb tele that often trades with jump 1/2's that allows to combo into another tele
-- MB tele trip guards (If you are jumping back 1/2 fishing for a tele Scorpion can react with MB tele and hit u in the recovery frames when you land after hitting 1/2 for full combos to resets)
-- you can NEVER jump forward vs scorp bc MB tele will always hit you.
-- the character can never be safe jumped using MB tele as a wake up bc it will hit or put him +9 on block (can you imagine in SF4 if ryu's fadc srk was +5?)
-- the best mobility in the game
-- ALL AIR BASED CHARACTERS ARE ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED on reaction by jump tele
-- it is argued that you can just jump back on Scorp's wake up fot whiff punish tele. What if he delays in half a sec then tele? it will hit your jump.
-- in ALL KNOCKDOWN SITUATIONS THAT PLACE SCORP AT SWEEP RANGE OR FURTHER (like corps charge with lex or b213 with sinestro) you CANNOT SAFE JUMP IT bc the MB tele with activate d/t invincibility and trip guard your jump in whatever
-- A WAY TO FINISH COMBO'S WITH THE STANDING RESET LIKE FROST AND CONTINUE SAFE PRESSURE!
-- completely immune to zoning. (if you play a character like sinestro or DS, you earn your space. if I thoughtfully zone you and create space... its bc it was earned. this characters are highly punishable at sweep range/midscreen by 90% of the cast. ) scorpion completely ignores this has out zones everyone... completely.... and stays +9
-- the ability to do a wake up move and be plus 9 every single time without consequence
-- There is no character in the game that can dictate the pace of a match like scorp.
-- the ability to turn ANY block string into a 50/50 mix up with tele's
Now... compare this list to your characters abilities?
It all builds on the tele/MB teleport. The move is hands down the best in the entire game and has more use than any other move. Remember when I talked about moves and how the risk/reward should be considered when balancing it? The MB teleport should be -12 on block considering all of the uses the move has. Non-MB tele should remain -42 and hit as a mid.
Lets look at a few other moves that have tremendous uses and imagine if they were all +9. I mean... why not? Why not give all these characters a move that is NOT as good as MB tele and make it +9.
-- Death Stroke Sword Flip
-- Green Lantern's Might
-- Killer Frost's Slide
-- Black Adam non MB dive kick
-- Lex's Corps Charge
-- Superman Flying Punch
-- bane's headbutt
-- catwomans full screen dash thing
-- flash headbutt
-- shazaams superman
-- batgirls smoke bomb
-- et cetera
*non of these moves (except for frosts slide) have the utility as MB teleport but not one of them are +9... so what are the motives for keeping a move with this much use at +9? colt
Finally, I am a strong proponent of this Character being banned until he is appropriately balanced. Again... who am I right? More importantly, for the mid level/casual player... there is no way they will put up with this. In ranked last night... in a 3 hr session i played scorpion literally 1 out of every 2 matches... that is not fun for anyone no matter what skill level you are at.
Here are a list of Notable players who are in agreement (though not limited to):
-- AK Pig Of The Hut
-- Rico Suave
-- Maxter
-- CD jr
-- A F0xy Grampa
-- Tom Brady
-- general m2dave
-- FOREVER KING
-- Master D.
-- Reo aka gishtezashqip7797
-- CORN alucarD
Here is a list of Notable players who think he should stay tournament allowed:
-- Fnatic| Perfect Legend
-- Slips
Thanks for your time guys and please remember this post is only an opinion. I encourage PMs if you guys have comments and questions you would like me to address.
Dr. Matt S.
PLAYING TO WIN
I will start off by saying I am a very big fan of Injustice. The game has been very well received by the community. I will also say, a storm is coming. Now you may be wondering, "Who is this guy playing to win? Isn't that the guy Fanatiq went off on?" Just to give the readers a very small 'Who am I". My name is Matt. I am a Father, Husband, Dr. of Ortho and Physical Therapy, wrestled for 18 years and a habitual fighting game player. I have by no means set the world on fire but have had some small success and fun doing it. I co-started Console Combat and have an offline scene that includes M2Dave, MasterD, Ribbz, THTB, Forever King and more. Personally, I travel to a lot of events though not as many as I would like to. I have been able to take several top 8/16s in a few majors at the beginning of mk9, have won multiple pools at majors over the last 4 years in SSF4 AE with Dhalsim, and I have a lot of top 16s/32s at majors like winter brawl, seasons beatings, UFGT and others. More importantly, I was able to pull the resources together to start Console Combat and provide local/regional players a competitive/social outlet for fighting games that attracted players from Ohio, MI, PA and NY.
Injustice has now been out ~2.5 months and it has emerged as a top game in the competitive scene and with the casual gamer. Who doesn't want to take control of their most beloved comic characters and beat people up? For the gamer who uses video games as a chance to compete, it is a new beginning. A chance to take your knowledge from other games and apply it to Injustice in an endless race to prove your are better than your opponent. There are a few topics that have been attracting a flurry of conversation and debate. A few things I would like to provide an opinion on are: balance and considerations, scorpion/ban, The NRS Perspective,
NeatherRealm Studios (NRS) has recently given us two huge games in MK9 and Injustice. Unlike any other game development team, they have provided the community with the thought that everyone's opinions matter. They have a consistent presence at major tournaments, are frequently in streams and also post on this very site. The team consistently patches unintentional aspects of game-play and re-balances for perceived over/under powered aspects of play. Although other games have communities that request nerfs or upgrades, I have never seen it as prevalent as it is in the NRS community. There is one reason for this... NRS occasionally listens. It gives all levels of players the idea that their opinion, does indeed, matter. In addition, the team has also sought out the opinions of Tournament Proven players. This has ranged from one week limited access, to ~1 month with partial rosters to full access to the game several months before it was released. Testers had different levels of involvement including working on the Prima Guide, iOS app and balancing/glitch finding.
Concerning Balance, we need to understand that the Team at NRS has final say what will get including/excluding/patched/nerfed/buffed... We, the community, have no way of truly knowing what this process has entailed relative to Injustice. NRS may have ignored some suggestions or even made changes against the advice of those they sought opinions of. In the end, it is NRS's game. When you consider changes or the build of a character, it MUST be considered how these changes will effect all matchups across the board. Remember, this is a for profit business. There may be ulterior motives to make one character better than another. It can be speculated that the Man of Steel movie has had some play into superman's balance or Ed Boon's desire to keep an MK character in the lime light. Could it be possible that everyone has made fun of Aqua Man so the NRS team decided to stick it to the naysayers and make him strong. It is like the government, only a few people really know whats going on or the motives for a characters balance.
When you consider a move/special move you take into considerations so many things. It is hard to verbalize without giving specific examples. Lets look at Batgirl's smoke bomb. It is full screen and extremely fast. This has incredible viability and lead to meterless reset situations. However, bc the move is so strong it is punishable on block. Consider the risk reward here. It is a balanced move. Killer Frost's Slide trip guards, juggles for 40% damage to true 50/50 reset situations and is safe on block. This is not a balanced move when considering risk reward. Staying consistent with Batgirl's Smoke Bomb, I would expect it to be -9 or 10 and require a mid hitting attack to punish. Green lantern's Might is punishable on block appropriately. Considering the risk reward here. If lanterns might was safe the range on the move would need to be considerable decreased. I will provide some move in depth analysis later. I just hope to give you, the readers, some building blocks to my points about Scorpion's Meter Burn Teleport.
As test your might plays host to all levels of players from Evo Champions to consistent top 8 major finishers to online warriors to casual gamers who may have stumbled across the site when they Google'ed something. To balance a game that caters to ALL levels is a task I would never want to take on. When you have characters on the extreme of Rush Down/Zoning they will always be considered an issue and be complained about in your mid level/casual gamer. So when a thread pops up about how brain dead Death Stroke is... it only applied to mid level/casual gamers. In high level play the character is not an issues and was extremely punishable/manageable pre-patch. The point is, a players skill level is important to consider when reading their opinions.
When discussing tiers and "who beats who" the previous paragraph could not be more important to explain this point. A tier is something to provides guidance to a characters overall balance and viability. A TIER ONLY MATTERS AT THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST LEVEL OF PLAY. All other discussions outside of this level are purely speculative and use for excuses. When talking about Batman you have to talk about Reo/Forever King's batman. When talking about Green Arrow you have to talk about Chris G's Green arrow. When talking about Akuma you have to consider Infiltration's. Jax = Tyrant/CD Jr. Kensi = Pig of the Hut. Kung Lao = Perfect Legend's. Get my point here guys? Injustice is still considered in its infancy. Pardon the continued SF4 references but did you guys know that C.Viper was considered absolute trash for the first year or so of the game? As the game evolved she emerged as a top 5 character. Look at MK9... look at how many people said Jax was not good. how many tournaments did Jr and Tyrant succeed in?
Although I am a big proponent of letting things play out and letting games evolve before jumping to conclusions, Injustice has an exception in Scorpion. I have an opinion of the character but I care about proven Major tournament winner's opinions even more. There is an overwhelming outcry for the tools this character possesses from some of the best players to pick up a stick/controller. I am going to offer an unbiased view and hopefully summarize what is going on right now. Since Super Turbo's Akuma, I have never seen a character with tools that allow him to completely control a match. The meterburn Teleport. NRS attempted to give us a knee jerk hotfix that actually buffed the character in some ways. The non-meterburn teleport whiffing is less than 12 frames when considering a players average reaction time in match situations. It is rarely punished in flurry situations by very good players. Let us take a look at the tools this character possesses and let you, the reader, compare him to other characters in the game:
Scorpion:
-- the ability to NEVER be cornered
-- the ability to punish interactables from mid/full screen on reaction to full combo's ending in reset situations
-- unblockable mid hitting hellfire that starts up in 26 frames! Punishing/Whiff Punishing more than half of the zoning tools in the game.
-- MB teleport works as a parry in some situations were you can mash it through untrue block strings for full punish
-- The best Jump 3 in the entire game that leads to huge adv on block and full combo's on hit no matter where in the jump arc it hits
-- non mb tele that often trades with jump 1/2's that allows to combo into another tele
-- MB tele trip guards (If you are jumping back 1/2 fishing for a tele Scorpion can react with MB tele and hit u in the recovery frames when you land after hitting 1/2 for full combos to resets)
-- you can NEVER jump forward vs scorp bc MB tele will always hit you.
-- the character can never be safe jumped using MB tele as a wake up bc it will hit or put him +9 on block (can you imagine in SF4 if ryu's fadc srk was +5?)
-- the best mobility in the game
-- ALL AIR BASED CHARACTERS ARE ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED on reaction by jump tele
-- it is argued that you can just jump back on Scorp's wake up fot whiff punish tele. What if he delays in half a sec then tele? it will hit your jump.
-- in ALL KNOCKDOWN SITUATIONS THAT PLACE SCORP AT SWEEP RANGE OR FURTHER (like corps charge with lex or b213 with sinestro) you CANNOT SAFE JUMP IT bc the MB tele with activate d/t invincibility and trip guard your jump in whatever
-- A WAY TO FINISH COMBO'S WITH THE STANDING RESET LIKE FROST AND CONTINUE SAFE PRESSURE!
-- completely immune to zoning. (if you play a character like sinestro or DS, you earn your space. if I thoughtfully zone you and create space... its bc it was earned. this characters are highly punishable at sweep range/midscreen by 90% of the cast. ) scorpion completely ignores this has out zones everyone... completely.... and stays +9
-- the ability to do a wake up move and be plus 9 every single time without consequence
-- There is no character in the game that can dictate the pace of a match like scorp.
-- the ability to turn ANY block string into a 50/50 mix up with tele's
Now... compare this list to your characters abilities?
It all builds on the tele/MB teleport. The move is hands down the best in the entire game and has more use than any other move. Remember when I talked about moves and how the risk/reward should be considered when balancing it? The MB teleport should be -12 on block considering all of the uses the move has. Non-MB tele should remain -42 and hit as a mid.
Lets look at a few other moves that have tremendous uses and imagine if they were all +9. I mean... why not? Why not give all these characters a move that is NOT as good as MB tele and make it +9.
-- Death Stroke Sword Flip
-- Green Lantern's Might
-- Killer Frost's Slide
-- Black Adam non MB dive kick
-- Lex's Corps Charge
-- Superman Flying Punch
-- bane's headbutt
-- catwomans full screen dash thing
-- flash headbutt
-- shazaams superman
-- batgirls smoke bomb
-- et cetera
*non of these moves (except for frosts slide) have the utility as MB teleport but not one of them are +9... so what are the motives for keeping a move with this much use at +9? colt
Finally, I am a strong proponent of this Character being banned until he is appropriately balanced. Again... who am I right? More importantly, for the mid level/casual player... there is no way they will put up with this. In ranked last night... in a 3 hr session i played scorpion literally 1 out of every 2 matches... that is not fun for anyone no matter what skill level you are at.
Here are a list of Notable players who are in agreement (though not limited to):
-- AK Pig Of The Hut
-- Rico Suave
-- Maxter
-- CD jr
-- A F0xy Grampa
-- Tom Brady
-- general m2dave
-- FOREVER KING
-- Master D.
-- Reo aka gishtezashqip7797
-- CORN alucarD
Here is a list of Notable players who think he should stay tournament allowed:
-- Fnatic| Perfect Legend
-- Slips
Thanks for your time guys and please remember this post is only an opinion. I encourage PMs if you guys have comments and questions you would like me to address.
Dr. Matt S.
PLAYING TO WIN
