Ways around Shang's wake-up and cross-up problems

[LEGEND]

Thought i'd make a Thread were we can discuss strategies for dealing with getting crossed up and being pressured on wake-up or ground

I have been working on reverse input EX Souls Steal and NJP timing on wake-up and dashing forward with a D4 when i'm about to be crossed up, work in progress


Any other ideas or proven strategies/tools?

 

[LEGEND]

i'll be on later for more details on discussion

 

[eskuAdradit0]

for crossup jips:
d3 to lower your hitbox, next cross up jip attempt hit with d1 into aa combo.

for crossup deep jiks:
walk away or standing 1 into aa combo.

 

[LolingOctopus]

how viable is upskull for crossovers? I had "ok" success with it but never tried to use it on reaction as an anti crossover

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Too slow.

 

[Metzos]

Is his d1 any good ?

 

[LolingOctopus]

on crossover d1 is 50/50 to me, maybe its just my timing though. Either I get blown up or I successfully AA with it.

if people jump on me a standing 1 is a better AA imo

 

[LEGEND]

D1 seems to be dependent opponents Jump punch, not very reliable

i've been using NJP to counter getting crossed up while knocked down with some success, Reverse input EX souls steal is something i'm really working on right now and it looks like it might solve alot of Shang's problems

being pressured without meter is still really bad for Shang, i don't think there is anything that can be done in the corner. Midscreen D3 and spacing back works just fine

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I like to stay grounded and wait for the jump to get up/ tech roll. I'd rather take on block jip then try d1 and get fucked with full juggle.

 

[LEGEND]

D3, reverse Ex Soul steal, tech roll and D1 are all fine. i'm not really having any problems with crossups anymore unless i'm in the corner or if i'm fighting characters that can fake a crossup with an air special. Don't really see anyway around that anyway

thanks for the posts everyone

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Regarding wake ups - I dont know if you have delt with this before but Shang in the corner with Cyrax could lose entire life bar just trying to escape. Now this is real BS, i've been on this so many times and only thing that would get me away from that bomb on the ground would be jump away-forward. But Cyrax will take me with njp and continue with his BS again. Other then that, there isnt really much of problem.

 

[Qwark28]

Regarding wake ups - I dont know if you have delt with this before but Shang in the corner with Cyrax could lose entire life bar just trying to escape. Now this is real BS, i've been on this so many times and only thing that would get me away from that bomb on the ground would be jump away-forward. But Cyrax will take me with njp and continue with his BS again. Other then that, there isnt really much of problem.

would laying down and quickly doing ex ss help?

 

[Sao87]

Ex soul steal for armored wake up, D3 under cross up's or d1 to anti air.

 

[G4S KT]

d3 > d4 for anti cross ups (d3 to dodge, hit them with d4 then follow up with pressure. Close ground skull I guess). They will be unable to block the d4 even if they try to because of the "bug" where you can't block low after a deep jump punch (it's not really a bug).

I've been doing this with Smoke for forever.

 

[Qwark28]

d3 > d4 for anti cross ups (d3 to dodge, hit them with d4 then follow up with pressure. Close ground skull I guess). They will be unable to block the d4 even if they try to because of the "bug" where you can't block low after a deep jump punch (it's not really a bug).

I've been doing this with Smoke for forever.

aint those recovery frames?

 

[Theme]

This is one of the biggest problems I have with Shang Tsung. If I can successfully nullify this stupid problem, he would already be my main. He simply needs a better wakeup option. This rolling option is so iffy and inconsitent, Im still not being able to roll whenever I want. Sometimes, I just get up too fast after I hit the ground.

 

[G4S KT]

aint those recovery frames?

the short answer is yes.

the longer answer is that when you whiff an air punch (of any kind) you have vulnerable frames when you hit the ground. You can also cancel this recovery into any movement or attack. The weird part is if you cancel the recovery into a movement, the vulnerable frames FOLLOW you until you stop.

For example if you cancel the recovery of a whiffed jump punch into another back jump, or 2 or 3, the recovery period where you can't block will still be there when you stop. Like wise if you cancel this recovery into a dash you CANNOT cancel that dash with block; it has to complete or be cancelled into an attack.

Not only that, but if you cancel the recovery into a walk or crouch (holding a direction, basically) you can't block until you release the direction and return all directional inputs to neutral. You can even switch directions without releasing them and walk around mashing R2 and you will not block.

MORTAAALLL KOMBAAATTTT

 

[Qwark28]

the short answer is yes.

the longer answer is that when you whiff an air punch (of any kind) you have vulnerable frames when you hit the ground. You can also cancel this recovery into any movement or attack. The weird part is if you cancel the recovery into a movement, the vulnerable frames FOLLOW you until you stop.

For example if you cancel the recovery of a whiffed jump punch into another back jump, or 2 or 3, the recovery period where you can't block will still be there when you stop. Like wise if you cancel this recovery into a dash you CANNOT cancel that dash with block; it has to complete or be cancelled into an attack.

Not only that, but if you cancel the recovery into a walk or crouch (holding a direction, basically) you can't block until you release the direction and return all directional inputs to neutral. You can even switch directions without releasing them and walk around mashing R2 and you will not block.

MORTAAALLL KOMBAAATTTT

so its recovery frames.

 

[G4S KT]

so its recovery frames.

"yes" was my short answer. So, yes.

 

[Qwark28]

"yes" was my short answer. So, yes.

your long answer wasn't long enough.

write more,especially how many frames they're vulnerable for.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

would laying down and quickly doing ex ss help?

If you stay grounded the bomb will pop you up, if you try to do Ex SS in middle of morph animation you will get blown up by the same bomb. If opponent time correctly njp no jump will help. Either way you are taking that bomb and reset. Of course very few Cyrax's online know about this and abuse it. But the one I practice with (martin_tobias) dose those traps pretty constantly.

 

[Phosferrax]

D1 is consistent; people's timing with it is not. I find the general rule is that if you hesitate before you go for it, you will mess it up. I don't mind eating a jump kick so much, gets me out of pressure.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

If you stay grounded the bomb will pop you up, if you try to do Ex SS in middle of morph animation you will get blown up by the same bomb. If opponent time correctly njp no jump will help. Either way you are taking that bomb and reset. Of course very few Cyrax's online know about this and abuse it. But the one I practice with (martin_tobias) dose those traps pretty constantly.

I believe regular normals have wakeup invicibility too. In that case just F4, cGs

Somberness

 

[Phosferrax]

I believe regular normals have wakeup invicibility too. In that case just F4, cGs

Isn't it only 8 frames of invincibility though? In which case and wake-up would get blown up anyway.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Isn't it only 8 frames of invincibility though? In which case and wake-up would get blown up anyway.

11 since 1.05 if I can recall correctly, plus the bomb does not explode inmediately.