Match-Up Discussion - Pyromancer Vak's Pyromancer MU Chart

[Vak Phoenix]

Alien

• Acidic 4/6
• Konjurer 4/6
• Tarkatan 4/6

Bo Rai Cho

• Drunken Master 6/4
• Dragons Breath 6/4
• Bartitsu 6/4

Cassie Cage

• Brawler 4/6
• Hollywood 4/6
• Spec Ops 4/6

D'Vorah

• Brood Mother 4/6
• Swarm Queen 4/6
• Venomous 4/6

Ermac

• Mystic 3/7
• Master Of Souls 4/6
• Spectral 5/5

Erron Black

• Gunslinger 6/4
• Outlaw 6/4
• Marksman 6/4

Ferra/Torr

• Lackey 5/5
• Ruthless 4/6
• Vicious 4/6

Goro

• Dragon Fangs 5/5
• Kuatan Warrior 5/5
• Tigrar Fury 5/5

Jacqui

• Full Auto 4/6
• Shotgun 4/6
• High Tech 5/5

Jason

• Slasher 5/5
• Relentless 5/5
• Unstoppable 5/5

Jax

• Pumped Up 4/6
• Heavy Weapons 4/6
• Wrestler 4/6

Johnny Cage

• A-List 4/6
• Fisticuffs 4/6
• Stunt Double 4/6

Kano

• Cybernetic 5/5
• Cutthroat 5/5
• Commando 6/4

Kenshi

• Balanced N/A
• Possessed 4/6
• Kenjutsu 4/6

Kitana

• Mournful 5/5
• Royal Storm 4.5/5.5
• Assassin 5/5

Ko'atal Kahn

• Sun God 3/7
• Blood God 3/7
• War God 4/6

Kung Jin

• Ancestral 5/5
• Shaolin 5/5
• Bojutsu 5/5

Kung Lao

• Hat Trick 4/6
• Buzzsaw 4/6
• Tempest 3/7

Leatherface

• Pretty Lady 4/6
• Killer 5/5
• Butcher 4/6

Liu Kang

• Dualist 5/5
• Flamefist 4/6
• Dragons Fire 4/6

Mileena

• Ravenous 3/7 Possibly 2/8
• Piercing 3/7 Possibly 2/8
• Ethereal 3/7 Possibly 2/8

Predator

• Hish-Qu-Ten 4/6
• Hunter 5/5
• Warrior N/A

Quan Chi

• Summoner 4/6
• Sorcerer 4/6
• Warlock 4/6

Raiden

• Master Of Storms 5/5
• Thunder God 5/5
• Displacer 4/6

Reptile

• Deceptive 5/5
• Noxious 5/5
• Nimble 5/5

Scorpion

• Hellfire 4/6
• Ninjitsu 4/6 Possibly 3/7
• Inferno 4/6

Shinnok

• Imposter 2/8
• Bone Shaper 4/6
• Necromancer 3/7

Sonya Blade

• Special Forces 5/5
• Covert Ops 6/4
• Demolition 3/7

Sub-Zero

• Cryomancer 4/6
• Grandmaster 3/7
• Unbreakable 4/6

Takeda

• Ronin 4/6
• Shirai Ryu 3/7
• Lasher 3/7

Tanya

• Kobu Jutsu 5/5
• Pyromancer N/A
• Dragon Naginata 5/5

Tremor

• Crystalline 5/5
• Metallic 5/5
• Aftershock 5/5

Triborg

• Cyber Sub-Zero 3/7
• Cyrax 5/5
• Sektor 6/4
• Smoke 4/6

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Why is Spectral only 5-5?

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Why is Spectral only 5-5?

Tanya chases Ermac down when he has health lead and he cannot run away from her like he does against 90% of the cast. Her air fireballs and high fireball are great tools to keep Ermac at bay and bait the Soul Charge or teleport.

Tanya dictates the match up and sets the pace. While Ermac's normals are better and his 50/50's are safe against her in Spectral, Tanya has hard time punishing him, that is the reason why this matchup is not in Tanya's favor. Tanya lacks tools to punish Ermac, he outranges her with normals, except for Tanya's f2. Ermac's crouch normals are also better than hers, but these are just universal tools.

 

[Braindead]

Ko'atal Kahn

• Sun God 3/7
• Blood God 3/7
• War God 4/6

Ko'atal? What theeee

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Ko'atal? What theeee

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Lmao I forgot white Tanya was in the story

 

[RyuuJin882]

I think she's even Takeda. At least ronin. Why do you think Ninjitsu is 3/7 compared to scorprions other variations?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think she's even Takeda. At least ronin. Why do you think Ninjitsu is 3/7 compared to scorprions other variations?

I don't mean to speak for him but I'd wager it's because B2 stops any attempts at air fire balls with 36% into a restand for even attempting zoning in the air, coupling that with Scorpion's superior control of the neutral and other anti zoning tools like ex tele and what not.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

I think she's even Takeda. At least ronin. Why do you think Ninjitsu is 3/7 compared to scorprions other variations?

Takeda immobilizes her with his godlike range, just as Scorpion. She has hard time punishing them, and the whole Pyromancer hit and run does not work against them. Hence the fact that they outfootsie Tanya and she cannot begin the pressure makes it extremely hard for her.

Not just outrange her, but shut down her 'zoning' as well. Tanya lacks damage and she has to take chunks of damage with throws, where as Takeda and Scorpion flourish with damage output, pressure and range.

EX dust makes Hellfire somewhat more reasonable to deal with comparing to Ninjitsu, same goes for Inferno. Tanya can go fullscreen and bait Scorpion into calling his minions and punish him from fullscreen via run f2, forward teleport ji2 and run ji2.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Ko'atal? What theeee

You're right. Sun and blood God are at least 2-8 in Kotal's favor.

 

[Braindead]

You're right. Sun and blood God are at least 2-8 in Kotal's favor.

How's the Harley vs Pyromancer MU? Who needs more buffs?

 

[Awkward Sloth]

How's the Harley vs Pyromancer MU? Who needs more buffs?

Tanya is dead in this game. Harley is the only hope for injustice 2.

 

[ismael4790]

Fisticuffs shouldn't have the same matchup numbers than the other two variations. This could only possibly happen vs a character with slow ass wakeups or no wakeup game, which is not Tanya's case.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Vak now you KNOW you have to explain Kitana to me lol

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Fisticuffs shouldn't have the same matchup numbers than the other two variations. This could only possibly happen vs a character with slow ass wakeups or no wakeup game, which is not Tanya's case.

Its not fisticuffs specific that beats Tanya its Johnnys universal normals and specials that beats Tanya. Does that make sense?

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Vak now you KNOW you have to explain Kitana to me lol

It is a very fun match, Tanya's ex fireball works wonders and shuts down Kitana. Yes Kitana does outdamage her but Tanya does not need to get in the air to condition Kitana. Strategy is make Kitana frustrated. Tanya builds meter faster and baits Kitana in this match up to charge and reflect and punishes easily. Tanya will take hit with fan to ensure that Kitana gets hit with fireball. Tanyas fireballs are +22 on hit and they also shut down Kitanas air game due to their arc. Tanya has decent pressure against Kitana with b312 because it leaves Tanya at plus 4-5 if they opponent is dusted. Tanya frustrates Kitana more.

 

[ismael4790]

Its not fisticuffs specific that beats Tanya its Johnnys universal normals and specials that beats Tanya. Does that make sense?

Depends on what normals you have in mind.
If you are thinking about f3, best Cage normal, his only fast advancing attack with range, then it doesn't make sense, because this move is wasted in Fisticuffs, whereas in the other two variations the move is an actual threat.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Depends on what normals you have in mind.
If you are thinking about f3, best Cage normal, his only fast advancing attack with range, then it doesn't make sense, because this move is wasted in Fisticuffs, whereas the other two variations the move is an actual threat.

Every usedul universal normal

 

[ismael4790]

Every usedul universal normal

I don't see which of the normals in this variation can give him an advantage in this matchup to the point of giving the same numbers as A-List or Stunt double, it sounds quite absurd.
Specially considering Tanya can also deal very well with Fisticuffs specific string, on wakeup and standing (she can armor through the gap, and has the thread of 50/50 armor situation if Cage staggers it).

 

[Vak Phoenix]

I don't see which of the normals in this variation can give him an advantage in this matchup to the point of giving the same numbers than A-List or Stunt double, it sounds quite absurd.
Specially considering Tanya can also deal very well with Fisticuffs specific string, on wakeup and standing (she can armor through the gap, and has the thread of 50/50 armor situation if Cage staggers it).

How do i explain this in the most primitive way, Johnny Cage as a base character deals with Tanya very well. His fireballs are better, his wakeups are better, his normals are better, his pressure is better.

 

[D7X]

Respect for playing Tanya.
I really don't know Tanya at all, so can you explain how you came up with 5/5 for Reptile? Thanks

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Respect for playing Tanya.
I really don't know Tanya at all, so can you explain how you came up with 5/5 for Reptile? Thanks

Tanyas mobility frustrates reptiles space control with acid balls. Reptile cannot play lame against her, she has safe armor into a safe armor against his pressure unlike him. Reptile outdamages Tanya but she shuts down his space control. Matchup is even for both characters.

 

[ismael4790]

How do i explain this in the most primitive way, Johnny Cage as a base character deals with Tanya very well. His fireballs are better, his wakeups are better, his normals are better, his pressure is better.

I perfectly understand what you are saying, I'm just saying I think you are totally wrong giving the same number to Fisticuffs than the other variations, at least A-List.

First of all, Fisticuffs has no real pressure, even less vs Tanya for the reasons I mentioned above. You also have to put f3 out of the equation. A-list has the same projectiles, wakeups, and better use of every normal, including F3.

For the sake of coherence, you should either put Fisticuffs as a 5-5, or A-List as a 3-7. But with the same number it simply does not make sense. Or put a N/A if you don't have experience in the matchup, I think you did that with Balanced.

It can be somehow reasonable to put Stunt Double on the same level in this matchup because his projectile sucks in comparison. But Fisticuffs definitely should NOT have the same number as A-List xD

 

[D7X]

Tanyas mobility frustrates reptiles space control with acid balls. Reptile cannot play lame against her, she has safe armor into a safe armor against his pressure unlike him. Reptile outdamages Tanya but she shuts down his space control. Matchup is even for both characters.

Oh, I see. You really do know your stuff. Wasn't sure, thanks for the explanation!

 

[D7X]

I perfectly understand what you are saying, I'm just saying I think you are totally wrong giving the same number to Fisticuffs than the other variations, at least A-List.

First of all, Fisticuffs has no real pressure, even less vs Tanya for the reasons I mentioned avobe. You also have to put f3 out of the equation. A-list has the same projectiles, and better use of every normal, including F3.

For the sake of coherence, you should either put Fisticuffs as a 5-5, or A-List as a 3-7. But with the same number it simply does not make sense. Or put a N/A if you don't have experience in the matchup, I think you did that with Balanced.

Balanced Kenshi main... Didn't they die out years ago?