Used Games Block (official?)

[Euphoric]

Prices have ALWAYS been the same. Or nearly identical. OMG.

 

[Killphil]

Prices have ALWAYS been the same. Or nearly identical. OMG.

The cost of making a game was less as well. There were 4 guys that worked on mk1. Now look at NRS. I'm sure they employ hundreds of people to work on their games now and not to mention it takes longer. I wouldn't be shocked if either a) This patent comes to a head with the ps4 and/or b) the price of games goes up.

 

[Critical-Limit]

IF games cut out the middle man of Wal-mart/Gamestop/delivery drivers going 100% digital where you'll need to buy more hardrive space rather than games. hardrive acting as your bookshelf if it were.

They can afford to go cheaper on games.

But will that going cheaper be counter-acted by cost of production? and end up being nuetral cost to us?

I don't know the numbers but it's something to thinka bout.



and if they got it as low as 30bucks per NEW game.

would you be fine with them locking it to your account only? aka no used games? the price drop only coming after time.

 

[STRYKIE]

Same rumor was floating around with the Nextbox, so yeah, pure shit-stirring, rumor-monging, baesless propaganda from gaming websites trying to induce some on their sahara desert forums..

Maybe if games weren't 60 fucking dollars people wouldn't have to buy used games.

Yeah because inferior ports of Street Fighter 2 on SNES totally didn't push $80 on day 1.. oh wait..

Anyone who has an issue with the current RRP on software in the gaming industry is in need of a reality check, or just suck at life, release dates are published months in advance for consumers to have the money ready, don't like it? Wait for a price drop. And even then that never happened via retailers themselves until Nintendo and Sony started introducing their budget-lines. (Then again that's how the Xbox 360 got it's breakthrough and was all of a sudden settled on by the very same people who were brown-nosing the PS2 and talking shit about the original Xbox)

 

[Euphoric]

IF games cut out the middle man of Wal-mart/Gamestop/delivery drivers going 100% digital where you'll need to buy more hardrive space rather than games. hardrive acting as your bookshelf if it were.

They can afford to go cheaper on games.

But will that going cheaper be counter-acted by cost of production? and end up being nuetral cost to us?

I don't know the numbers but it's something to thinka bout.



and if they got it as low as 30bucks per NEW game.

would you be fine with them locking it to your account only? aka no used games? the price drop only coming after time.

Steam.

 

[Critical-Limit]

Steam.

good example but what I'm asking is,

if all games become like steam permanently. No more hard copies.

 

[Euphoric]

good example but what I'm asking is,

if all games become like steam permanently. No more hard copies.

I've read you can request a box, just for collectors, but, I'd do away for better deals.

I don't know if you read this, but here it is again.


http://testyourmight.com/threads/used-games-block-official.26708/#post-642225

 

[Justice]

Be grateful you're not paying that much for a SNES or Sega Genesis game. Game prices have hardly changed, but their quality sure has.

I remember paying $100 for Parasite Eve and Final Fantasy 7 on psx when they dropped back in the day. That's the bitch of supply and demand: games are more expensive to develop now but the price point has remained the same or even lowered.

Karried: I wouldn't be so harsh on Gamestop. They have a smart business model and they abuse everyone equally. Let's not forget that it's only been recently with the economy that companies have really complained and acted against the used markets. For decades the gaming industry along with the music and movie industry got along with the used markets because people had to buy new for there to be a used market. Now that people are buying less due to the economy and digital delivery services like Netflix, iTunes, etc., the balance that was there isn't anymore.

Now don't get me wrong, I totally support our games makers getting paid and paid better than they already are. But the used game market is better for the gamer in cheaper prices and better selection. I don't see many companies wasting server space for classic or obscure games for download.

Another thing that hasn't been discussed is the reliance on storage systems. Maybe it's my age, but I like having a hard copy of my games, music or whatever that I know will work when I go to use them. I don't like the idea of having my games on my hd and then my system crashes. If that happens now, I just lose my hardware and game saves. With this system, not only do I lose all of that but also the money I have invested in the games as well.

Anywho, all that to say that I totally agree with ya dood and as the music/movie industry has shown, digital is the way of the near future whether I like it or not.

One quick thing: Not everyone wins. In a digital world, the grunts get screwed. The people that press the disks, make the disks, ship them, artists to do boxcovers, etc. all find themselves out of work. Not to mention another lost opportunity for that little high school nerd that's dreaming of his/her first job at a gamestore. Just sayin'.

And for the record, Steam eats the souls of innocent little gamers for breakfast.

 

[Critical-Limit]

I've read you can request a box, just for collectors, but, I'd do away for better deals.

I don't know if you read this, but here it is again.


http://testyourmight.com/threads/used-games-block-official.26708/#post-642225

yeah I read that post, I agree with it completely. I was just fishing for other people's opinions. Sometimes I see something one way, but someone else can point out the elephant in the room that I missed.

that's all.

 

[THTB]

This change will probably kill off GameStop if other consoles take up on this, but don't expect gamers to be happy this is happening. The main reason GameStop is huge is because gaming in today's economy is not cheap if you buy everything new. No, GameStop doesn't completely drop the prices on used stuff, but people take what they can get.

60 a game and 350 a console, plus extra controllers are like 50 a piece? That shit is steep. If you're on Xbox that's an extra 60 a year.

Developers are going to have to make shit that is OoT-good or better on every release, or I wouldn't be surprised if the gaming industry eventually flops out earlier than expected. Because no one is going to want to pay full price for something that's already still expensive when it's used all the time.

 

[R00KI30FTH3Y3AR]

To make this statement short and sweet, I want to illustrate my point like this: I think Sony and any potential followers in their footsteps are looking to screw you over and make an extra buck. I mean, these are the same members in the vein of charging you money for content that's already on the disk! If any industry is around long enough, you already know it's going to evolve to the point of wanting to screw someone out of money, it's just that third party douchebags like gamestop were the first ones to start the screwing and we're all going to suffer for it. I like my tangible, used games, even if they are severely overpriced at times.

 

[Killphil]

To make this statement short and sweet, I want to illustrate my point like this: I think Sony and any potential followers in their footsteps are looking to screw you over and make an extra buck. I mean, these are the same members in the vein of charging you money for content that's already on the disk! If any industry is around long enough, you already know it's going to evolve to the point of wanting to screw someone out of money, it's just that third party douchebags like gamestop were the first ones to start the screwing and we're all going to suffer for it. I like my tangible, used games, even if they are severely overpriced at times.

I don't want to argue with you, as I'm not going to change your mind. But here's some food for thought on a few of your points:

- Content on the disc is subject to the company selling it. You're not paying for the disc, you're paying for the software on the disc. Read the EULA. Just because someone finds stuff on the disc before the release of said content doesn't mean it should be free, especially if it was already announced as dlc (make your disc locked content joke now).

- You like used games. You like saving a buck. But now imagine a world where all we get are games like Duke Nukem(newest) and "generic fighting game 59" "generic racing game 21" etc. because thats where its going if no one supports the people who actually work hard to bring AAA titles to your game system.

 

[Euphoric]

Agree. It's not like they're locking it because they don't want you to play it, for purposes of streamlining delivery to the player, content is locked, because it's DLC.

 

[TotteryManx]

I never paid $59.99 for a Genesis game. Prices weren't always the same.

 

[Euphoric]

I'm going to post this here, just an insight, many of you will probably not read it anyway and continue bashing.

http://jabronireport.blogspot.com/2010/08/post-in-which-i-defend-mk-dlc.html

 

[Rokinlobster]

If you're a hardworking employee working in the gaming industry, you want to make money, because programming is a tough bitch. These people work almost every day to make games, sometimes, they stay in their offices when shipping time is near. Imagine people that have to make non AAA titles, where it's hard to profit. That's why the only companies surviving are start up companies that made AAA games now.

What essentially GameStop [shit company] and other retailers who have caught on, is doing, most people fail to understand, ignorance is bliss. Game companies rely on retailers to distribute and sell their game, (new copies of game) worth full face value. That's how they fucking keep making more games for all of you.

The software on the game CANNOT be resold, it's illegal to give software to a second party, same reason, why you can't give your OS to multiple people. When a game is sold at full face value, (the original software), game companies make $, how ever, when you buy, used games, the game company makes NO money, as that item has already been "sold" when it was originally purchased at full price. What GameStop CANNOT be accused of is selling, the physical copy of the disc, that's not illegal, but digitally, giving some one else your code with the consent of the maker is, so, GameStop is making all this bank because they can buy used game for dirt cheap and sell them for full profit, because the game has already been sold, so the company doesn't make money. And idiots keep going in and buying used games, in the end I think gamers will benefit, as they'll get better offers if GameStop and such dies down.

GameStop, the scumbags they are, found a loophole, and it's making everyone think they are so awesome for selling used games, but, you're all getting scammed like chumps. And will continue to do so, unless games become fully digital, or a system is implemented.

Remember that time when you when to go trade in a game and they were offering, you like $4 for 3 copies of games that came out >1 year ago? Yeah.

I full agree with this, change.

Tl;dr Gamestop, or other places that deal in used games take a substantial chunk of a game devs profits. When you go buy a used mortal kombat komplete edition, NRS makes exactly 0 dollars, while gamestop makes 17 for simply facilitating a transaction, a transaction which is actually illegal in a few jurisdictions!


You have already seen stuff like this in plenty of games. Tekken tag 2 has an "online pass" in the box which contains a code you must enter to well, use online features. This is also the reason for pre order bonuses, force the gamers to buy a new copy to get special content.

 

[elegie]

Another thing that hasn't been discussed is the reliance on storage systems. Maybe it's my age, but I like having a hard copy of my games, music or whatever that I know will work when I go to use them. I don't like the idea of having my games on my hd and then my system crashes. If that happens now, I just lose my hardware and game saves. With this system, not only do I lose all of that but also the money I have invested in the games as well.


One quick thing: Not everyone wins. In a digital world, the grunts get screwed. The people that press the disks, make the disks, ship them, artists to do boxcovers, etc. all find themselves out of work. Not to mention another lost opportunity for that little high school nerd that's dreaming of his/her first job at a gamestore. Just sayin'.

I completely agree with these two points, people often don't consider how technology "upgrades" impact manufacturing employees but when companies do things like going digital, or automating some of their processes many people get put out of work. That makes many people that can't put money back into the economy to buy the things that these corporations are making.

I also like having a hard copy of all my games and music, there are numerous advantages for it. As of now there are quite a few titles that are not available for download that I would like to play/replay, and even if you could download everything again if the system crashes with a large collection that would be a real pain. I will not stop buying CDs until they stop making them, if I had everything on my computer or mp3 player with no CD I would have lost all my music twice now.

 

[aj1701]

If you're a hardworking employee working in the gaming industry, you want to make money, because programming is a tough bitch. These people work almost every day to make games, sometimes, they stay in their offices when shipping time is near. Imagine people that have to make non AAA titles, where it's hard to profit. That's why the only companies surviving are start up companies that made AAA games now.

What essentially GameStop [shit company] and other retailers who have caught on, is doing, most people fail to understand, ignorance is bliss. Game companies rely on retailers to distribute and sell their game, (new copies of game) worth full face value. That's how they fucking keep making more games for all of you.

The software on the game CANNOT be resold, it's illegal to give software to a second party, same reason, why you can't give your OS to multiple people. When a game is sold at full face value, (the original software), game companies make $, how ever, when you buy, used games, the game company makes NO money, as that item has already been "sold" when it was originally purchased at full price. What GameStop CANNOT be accused of is selling, the physical copy of the disc, that's not illegal, but digitally, giving some one else your code with the consent of the maker is, so, GameStop is making all this bank because they can buy used game for dirt cheap and sell them for full profit, because the game has already been sold, so the company doesn't make money. And idiots keep going in and buying used games, in the end I think gamers will benefit, as they'll get better offers if GameStop and such dies down.

GameStop, the scumbags they are, found a loophole, and it's making everyone think they are so awesome for selling used games, but, you're all getting scammed like chumps. And will continue to do so, unless games become fully digital, or a system is implemented.

Remember that time when you when to go trade in a game and they were offering, you like $4 for 3 copies of games that came out >1 year ago? Yeah.

I full agree with this, change.

You fail. Software is covered under copyright law, same as books. Courts have created the notion if the first sale doctrine, which says anything which copyright applies to can be resold. Your not copying, so your not exploiting any loop hole.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Do people understand why companies are doing this? Or are they just talking shit about it because they just want to. Only "retailer" that will be effected is GameStop in a major way, and GameStop is shit anyways. This is good for the gaming industry, lots of hard working people out there.

You do realize this means HUGE hassel if you just want to take the game to a friends house and such, right? Then again they would probably come out with an accesory or something to let that happen which would mooch more money out of peoples pockets.

 

[aj1701]

I never paid $59.99 for a Genesis game. Prices weren't always the same.

Ugh. Go plug the price you paid into an inflation calculator.. Nes games in todays money is around $100.

 

[TotteryManx]

Ugh. Go plug the price you paid into an inflation calculator.. Nes games in todays money is around $100.

I was speaking about when the games were brand new..back in 92'-93' lol. Now they are outrageous. I see used copies of Playstation games sometimes around $80-$90 now at some shops. Mostly RPG's. I should have actually said, "My parents never spent $59.99 on a Genesis game." I was a child then lol.

 

[aj1701]

I was speaking about when the games were brand new..back in 92'-93' lol. Now they are outrageous. I see used copies of Playstation games sometimes around $80-$90 now at some shops. Mostly RPG's. I should have actually said, "My parents never spent $59.99 on a Genesis game." I was a child then lol.

Ya I'm talking about new games too. Your talking twenty years ago, you cant compare prices then to prices now without adjusting for inflation.

 

[Euphoric]

You fail. Software is covered under copyright law, same as books. Courts have created the notion if the first sale doctrine, which says anything which copyright applies to can be resold. Your not copying, so your not exploiting any loop hole.

Lol fuck off. I might not know the exact laws, but if I ask I can get you the specific reason from someone in the industry, it might not be best as I described it but somewhere along the lines that's the underlying issue that's happening.

Edit: Just looked up an old conversation with an Epic Dev, the creator of the software owns the legal rights, and they (gaming companies) license their software. Game licenses are non-transferable, and software is a digital good, which is the tricky part (loophole) but the media it is packaged on is a physical good, i.e, the actual physical disc you put in your disc tray, can be resold, that's where second hand retailers make revenue off of used game sales for 100% profit, hence, that's why game companies have exclusive DLC partnerships with XYZ video game retailers, it's because they want you to buy the game new.

When used game sales are made, game companies are owed money, they are being siphoned off of their work. Game Stop and everyone has the right to sell the physical disc the software is packaged on, but not to transfer the license, which is what is happening when used game transactions are made. Unfortunately, the gaming industry hasn't had a strong push to get this issue resolved as other industries have or are trying, but the time is coming.

Which is essentially my point.

 

[bloodsport]

I full agree with this, change.

gamestop isn't the only company that sells games fyi . and they're not the only ones who would be affected either. if used games become unplayable, then there's no more renting games, which means next gen, companies like blockbuster would only make money from movies (and outdated games but lbsh). there's no more lending out your game, you'll have to be lugging around your xbox if you plan on playing anywhere besides your house, if your copy breaks you have to buy a NEW one (this one i would actually mind a lot), etc. there's a bunch of cons to it and the response is iffy, which is why i don't think they would go for it.

i heard something before about games becoming a code you buy online (think microsoft points from XBL) then download onto your console. if the companies are that greedy they could always do that

edit- i didn't mean greedy, bad way to phrase it. if they want the money that much, they could do that and eliminate gamestop and etc companies completely!

 

[aj1701]

Lol fuck off. I might not know the exact laws, but if I ask I can get you the specific reason from someone in the industry, it might not be best as I described it but somewhere along the lines that's the underlying issue that's happening.

Edit: Just looked up an old conversation with an Epic Dev, the creator of the software owns the legal rights, and they (gaming companies) license their software. Game licenses are non-transferable, and software is a digital good, which is the tricky part (loophole) but the media it is packaged on is a physical good, i.e, the actual physical disc you put in your disc tray, can be resold, that's where second hand retailers make revenue off of used game sales for 100% profit, hence, that's why game companies have exclusive DLC partnerships with XYZ video game retailers, it's because they want you to buy the game new.

When used game sales are made, game companies are owed money, they are being siphoned off of their work. Game Stop and everyone has the right to sell the physical disc the software is packaged on, but not to transfer the license, which is what is happening when used game transactions are made. Unfortunately, the gaming industry hasn't had a strong push to get this issue resolved as other industries have or are trying, but the time is coming.

Which is essentially my point.

First doctrine overrules stupid eluas.

Just because someone tries to put something in a contract does not mean its legal or enforceable.

Seriously why would sony bother researching and patenting this if studios could just sue game stop or individualsand kill the market that way.


Buying software is exactly like buying a book, movie or music. You own the copy and may resell, you just can't make another copy.

Fyi, I write software for a living.