UMK11 Overhaul speculation

[kingjolly]

I’d like to see more options fighter have access to when their health reach fatal blow zone. Maybe access to new moves that can only be used once, buffs to existing moves, new Krushing blows. Its a bit odd that joker and Johnny are the only 2 fighters that can cancel out their fatal blows. I feel like everyone should get their on fatal blow gimmick/trait.

 

[theotherguy]

Whatever it takes so that D1, throw isn't a thing.

Force a delayed wakeup after a breakaway.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Fuck the gameplay changes, for the love of god give us alternate menu music.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Force a delayed wakeup after a breakaway.

The breakaway system is a mess, but I don't think you could do that. Breaker mechanics should return players to neutral, not leave the aggressor right on top waiting to pressure/mix as the guy is getting up. It would have to be a roll-away or something, but that'd be useless in the corner.

NRS really fucked up by getting rid of breakers.

 

[Arqwart]

There's 3 core design items I feel should be addressed a for helping normalize balance between characters just as a baseline.

1. + frames on pokes (consistency, or lack thereof, for jailing)
2. Armor breakers. NRS failed this implementation with flying colors. Just pulled out the shotgun, stuck their foot out, aimed right in the center of said foot, and blam. I can accept (though dislike) some breakers being variation specific, but jesus christ as least make them USABLE for the character. Some just were not designed with the pre-established combo routes in mind. Characters like Sonya, Sub, and Scorp (all generally considered combo-centric characters) only get to potentially use theirs after their launching KBs (generally D2) or specific interactables so they're basically never utilized. Meanwhile Jade, who barely gets launch combos EVER, gets hers as her universal dash kick and it automatically gives her the KB which is absolutely amazing (easily top 5 if not top 3 armor breakers imo). Just like KBs, the armor breakers just do not make sense.
3. Krushing Blow requirements and damage being WAY out of line between characters. Compare characters like Geras / Liu / Jax to characters like Jade / Johnny / Shao. Geras/Liu/Jax just play the game and get rewarded with KBs. Jade/Johnny/Shao either have little to nothing or have to take massive risks for small payouts. I'm down with the Geras/Liu/Jax KB consistency and power level, but I'd like that KB consistency and power level to be consistent across the cast.

Bringing pokes, armor breakers, and KBs in line would make a world of difference across the board, especially the KBs. I really do love the hype the explosive KB plays make and find it such a shame that some characters just don't ever get that.

 

[Jbog]

Missed imputs are terrible on this game the dial a system is total crap and poke grab meta needs reworked. Hurt box adjustments need to happen their awful and hit boxes behind characters is just dumb. Pokes more plus would change this game but not sold on for the good. Maybe making them punishable would actually be a better decision so double and triple poke wouldn't be a viable strategy

 

[Jbog]

Krushing blows should be like sub or Lui kangs 3rd time it hits krushing blow how hard is that just balance damage

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Overhaul?

Curb your enthusiasm. At best they'll adjust a few frames.

We cannot even be sure they'll do anything to something as obvious as Jacqui, since all they've done to her since launch was -50 hp and call it a day.

 

[Pyrosis]

One of Shao Kahn's best krushing blows is not only in his worst variation, but you have to do a 94 frame taunt. NINETY-FUCKING-FOUR. There are so many buffs and debuffs in the game that are a literal fraction of that. Kotal's damage buff totem rewards a VERY similar buff to Shao's damage taken increase taunt and it's fuckin only 41 frame. If you SOMEHOW manage to get that taunt out in the game you STILL have to by some miracle land forward 3,4 into grab. Which is not only flawless blockable and full combo punishable if you do flawless block the 4 WITHOUT. WITHOUT. WITHOUT. WITHOUT spending the meter to Up 2 Shao, but you can also just duck the grab into yet another full combo punish with down 2 krushing blow or just full combo him anyway...

The only way to even REMOTELY make it safe is to do a dedicated combo that sends them full screen and pretty much telegraphs you're about to taunt. Even then it takes so long that it's not even guaranteed to not get punished since pretty much every character in the game can at least hit you with a projectile.

All this not even mentioning how absolute dogshit his krushing blows are even in his "viable" variations. How sad is it that his best krushing blow variation requires a 94 frame taunt into a string that's fully punishable at two points and that the opponent has to be dumb enough to get hit with a projectile twice in a row. Tack on
ground shatter special move in there just ensure that it's extra bad.

Make my character in line with the level of balance in this game already for fucks sake or else fuck Ultimate MK11.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

[DeftMonk]

this looks like you can otg them if they delay wake up. Kinda hype that they are obviously changing some of the base mechanics

 

[trufenix]

this looks like you can otg them if they delay wake up. Kinda hype that they are obviously changing some of the base mechanics

There would be no point in delayed wakeup then. Another post breakaway guessing game?

 

[Pyrosis]

The person being knocked down has way too many options from the ground. Something needs nerfed among the myriad of ground options. Person on the ground basically has control of the match completely, there's a huge risk every time the aggressor goes in for a meaty and very little risk for the wakeup unless they get EXACTLY read. The impetus is on the aggressor that they have to full on completely guess the exact thing that the waking up player is going to do, which is just nuts. It feels like the game caters so hard to whoever is losing the match or is in a "disadvantageous" position like being knocked down.

Even without meter its SO hard to enforce further pressure on a knocked down opponent because short or long delayed wakeup into buttons is still yet another mind game the waking up player can do completely without meter.

 

[BKV2]

The person being knocked down has way too many options from the ground. Something needs nerfed among the myriad of ground options. Person on the ground basically has control of the match completely, there's a huge risk every time the aggressor goes in for a meaty and very little risk for the wakeup unless they get EXACTLY read. The impetus is on the aggressor that they have to full on completely guess the exact thing that the waking up player is going to do, which is just nuts. It feels like the game caters so hard to whoever is losing the match or is in a "disadvantageous" position like being knocked down.

Even without meter its SO hard to enforce further pressure on a knocked down opponent because short or long delayed wakeup into buttons is still yet another mind game the waking up player can do completely without meter.

I’ve said it time and time again but this is the first fighting game I’ve played where if I get a knockdown I’m scared for my life on what to press

 

[BarakaTile]

Fuck the gameplay changes, for the love of god give us alternate menu music.

Give us a Classic Soundtrack mode like Tekken and Soul Calibur do.

I'm dying to trade this music out for the Classic Trilogy, MK4 and the 3D Era soundtracks

 

[theotherguy]

Classic Trilogy, MK4 and the 3D Era soundtracks

They've already thrown some of that in there with RetroKade. And the Soul Chamber is a reworked version of the MK2 intro. So there's lot's of little nods to the past in the music.

An option to have the Character select music randomly change between versions from the older games would be nice though.

 

[trufenix]

The person being knocked down has way too many options from the ground. Something needs nerfed among the myriad of ground options. Person on the ground basically has control of the match completely, there's a huge risk every time the aggressor goes in for a meaty and very little risk for the wakeup unless they get EXACTLY read. The impetus is on the aggressor that they have to full on completely guess the exact thing that the waking up player is going to do, which is just nuts. It feels like the game caters so hard to whoever is losing the match or is in a "disadvantageous" position like being knocked down.

Even without meter its SO hard to enforce further pressure on a knocked down opponent because short or long delayed wakeup into buttons is still yet another mind game the waking up player can do completely without meter.

Who said knockdown pressure is supposed to be guaranteed?

 

[Law Hero]

I'd really like to see some work done with this game's pretty sad attempt at variations. Obviously something massive like custom variations would be ideal, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

I feel like the game's been out long enough to identify useless variations and those that could use some help. Maybe switch some moves around in the variations, and help to fix the krushing blows and armor breakers for each character. That being said, I'm just expecting a few QoL fixes. Also, a complete menu overhaul from the music to the background would be nice. These menus look like they're straight out of Injustice to me.

 

[Pyrosis]

Who said knockdown pressure is supposed to be guaranteed?

When did I say it should be guaranteed? I just think it should at least be a viable option.
Here's the same question posited back to you... Who said wake up should be guaranteed? There's so many options atm that it virtually is.

 

[DeftMonk]

There would be no point in delayed wakeup then. Another post breakaway guessing game?

If every move could otg then ya it would be no point but maybe only a certain move could. Who knows what they will do though.

 

[trufenix]

When did I say it should be guaranteed? I just think it should at least be a viable option.

Oh, you don't believe knockdown pressure is a viable option at all in mk11. It doesn't sound like you're very good at mk11.

Here's the same question posited back to you... Who said wake up should be guaranteed? There's so many options atm that it virtually is.

In what way are wake ups guaranteed? When did "taking a bunch of damage then not doing anything for a couple seconds and then being forced to block stationary" become such a fantastic defensive option?

 

[Obly]

Armor breakers. NRS failed this implementation with flying colors. Just pulled out the shotgun, stuck their foot out, aimed right in the center of said foot, and blam. I can accept (though dislike) some breakers being variation specific, but jesus christ as least make them USABLE for the character. Some just were not designed with the pre-established combo routes in mind. Characters like Sonya, Sub, and Scorp (all generally considered combo-centric characters) only get to potentially use theirs after their launching KBs (generally D2) or specific interactables so they're basically never utilized. Meanwhile Jade, who barely gets launch combos EVER, gets hers as her universal dash kick and it automatically gives her the KB which is absolutely amazing (easily top 5 if not top 3 armor breakers imo). Just like KBs, the armor breakers just do not make sense.

I hear ya... but it seems your expectations may have been a little too high. The game clearly wasn't designed around armor breakers being a core mechanic; they're just a gimmick, really, thrown in to try to help balance out the broke-ass breakaway system. So we were always in store for a kludgey retrofit at best. The devs went character by character, looking at their existing move set and figuring out where to shoehorn in an armor breaker so it was at least sorta usable and sorta balanced. It was inevitable that some characters would make out well and some get shafted (square peg + round hole). The idea that we were getting (or ever will get) a smoothly integrated, totally fair and balanced AB mechanic is pretty unrealistic.

I wish they'd skipped the whole AB idea and just fixed the actual problems with breakaway. Now it kinda is what it is. I get being mad about the inherent unfairness, but does it truly matter? I'm not sure ABs had any meaningful effect on the meta anyway. The top characters (most of whom didn't get a good AB) are still on top. A few weak variations now have more reason to be played (e.g., Squander Kollector, Fan-Fare Kitana), but for the most part, the best variations before are still the best variations now, AB or not. And predictably, players have figured out when and how to breakaway to avoid ABs anyway.

Just my own opinion, but I don't want them to spend more time trying to fix ABs. I want them to fix the broke-ass defensive options that are the real problem, and otherwise work on quality of life features people really want (like a ranked mode wifi filter and penalities for serial d/c'ers).

 

[DeftMonk]

I hear ya... but it seems your expectations may have been a little too high. The game clearly wasn't designed around armor breakers being a core mechanic; they're just a gimmick, really, thrown in to try to help balance out the broke-ass breakaway system. So we were always in store for a kludgey retrofit at best. The devs went character by character, looking at their existing move set and figuring out where to shoehorn in an armor breaker so it was at least sorta usable and sorta balanced. It was inevitable that some characters would make out well and some get shafted (square peg + round hole). The idea that we were getting (or ever will get) a smoothly integrated, totally fair and balanced AB mechanic is pretty unrealistic.

I wish they'd skipped the whole AB idea and just fixed the actual problems with breakaway. Now it kinda is what it is. I get being mad about the inherent unfairness, but does it truly matter? I'm not sure ABs had any meaningful effect on the meta anyway. The top characters (most of whom didn't get a good AB) are still on top. A few weak variations now have more reason to be played (e.g., Squander Kollector, Fan-Fare Kitana), but for the most part, the best variations before are still the best variations now, AB or not. And predictably, players have figured out when and how to breakaway to avoid ABs anyway.

Just my own opinion, but I don't want them to spend more time trying to fix ABs. I want them to fix the broke-ass defensive options that are the real problem, and otherwise work on quality of life features people really want (like a ranked mode wifi filter and penalities for serial d/c'ers).

What if they had just made throws the armor breaker mechanic? If you throw someone who is in a breakaway animation you get a restand and are like +15 so u could combo. That way it would be universal

 

[John_NX]

Basic throw: 13%
Kb throw: 30%

A ONE PERCENT DIFFERENCE AFTER 1.5 YEAR

 

[Pyrosis]

Oh, you don't believe knockdown pressure is a viable option at all in mk11. It doesn't sound like you're very good at mk11.



In what way are wake ups guaranteed? When did "taking a bunch of damage then not doing anything for a couple seconds and then being forced to block stationary" become such a fantastic defensive option?

Generally speaking, no one agrees that knockdown pressure is in any way "guaranteed". In fact. Everyone pretty much agrees that the waking up player has too many defensive options from the ground. Short delay wakeup buttons, long delay wakeup buttons, or just wake up buttons is already a THREE way guess as to when exactly you have to apply your meaty 'knockdown pressure'. Every character with a jab string can apply this easily. That's without even factoring in offensive or defensive meter.

Everyone from just people grinding Kombat League to nearly every single pro player universally agrees, and judging from the content of the Rain trailer, where delayed knockdown appears to be changing, looks like ALSO Netherrealm Studios THEMSELVES agree...

So I mean... If all you have in defense of your standing on this is "you must not be good at the game" then I guess we're done with this conversation.

 

[Obly]

Basic throw: 13%
Kb throw: 30%

A ONE PERCENT DIFFERENCE AFTER 1.5 YEAR

I saw that. It's a drop in the bucket, but at least it's a drop.

Stephanie confirmed that they eliminated one of the delayed wakeup timing options though -- that's huge. So now there's only one timing option. Combine that with (what looks like) a new visual indicator for delayed wakeup and that removes a big part of the broken wakeup mix. A whole lot of small drops can add up to a tidal wave (Rain pun intended!).