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UMK11 Overhaul speculation

These got reviewed

  • Poke system

    Votes: 17 44.7%
  • Combo System

    Votes: 8 21.1%
  • Breakway System

    Votes: 17 44.7%
  • Meter System

    Votes: 5 13.2%
  • Comeback System

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • Everything got reviewed

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • Others(Name on comments)

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Total voters
    38

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist

We know for sure the wakeup system is getting reviewed, we don't know for sure what else is new in the game, but this puts my hopes up, as this will do a lot of good in the game (hopefully)
You can also see Sindel getting hit as she wakeups up, so there is a possibility of no more invincibility frames on wakeup if one delays it, which is good.

Just here keeping my fingers crossed for Fatal Blows overhaul
A bit more of combo liberty for every character and gravity juggle a bit relaxed.
Breakaway changed somehow.
Short hops going over d1s

and god knows who else.

31 days until we found out.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
They didn't show Rain having a pop-up string, all his combos came from meter, so I would be really surprised if they changed the combo system.

Something is definitely new with the wakeup, hopefully they made changes to armor breakers to make it less useless for some characters. And I'm also assuming lots of character changes as well, Tyler already talked about a Kitana buff. I really hope FB also got changed but time will tell.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
They didn't show Rain having a pop-up string, all his combos came from meter, so I would be really surprised if they changed the combo system.

Something is definitely new with the wakeup, hopefully they made changes to armor breakers to make it less useless for some characters. And I'm also assuming lots of character changes as well, Tyler already talked about a Kitana buff. I really hope FB also got changed but time will tell.
It wasn't a buff for kitana, mostly a fix on that move, that should have worked in the first place :confused:
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
Pokes and Breakaways would be the main thing I hope got reviewed. I also hope hitboxes were addressed, but I have less faith they'll actually do that.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
It wasn't a buff for kitana, mostly a fix on that move, that should have worked in the first place :confused:
True, but now that she'll do extra damage on both her throws, it's still a significant buff, which stemmed from a consistency mistake, but still a buff nonetheless. She's gonna be broke by the end of the game's life if they keep this up lmao.

I'm okay with it.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
True, but now that she'll do extra damage on both her throws, it's still a significant buff, which stemmed from a consistency mistake, but still a buff nonetheless. She's gonna be broke by the end of the game's life if they keep this up lmao.

I'm okay with it.
she always is lol
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
My hunch is that even calling it an "overhaul" is too strong of a word. I think what we'll get at this point are mostly quality of life adjustments.

In that spirit, I'm optimistic that in particular they'll address some of the game's defensive options that get abused to steal an unfair attack advantage. These are some of the most demoralizing, "why tf do I play this game?" things that shouldn't have stood for as long as they have.

The wakeup system. Everyone hates it, because it's so OP it literally rewards the person who made a mistake and got knocked down. The new animation that visually signals delayed wakeup is a good start, but I'm hoping they've cut some of the options (e.g., only one delayed wakeup timing) or at least made them more expensive (e.g., forward roll to cost one offensive and one defensive bar).

Breakaway. Everyone agrees it's terrible. It's not going away at this point, but NRS needs to do something to guarantee that the defender never, ever gets to combo the attacker after breaking away. Doesn't need to be a complicated change: just force the defender to stay in a knockdown state until the attacker returns to neutral.

Fatal blows. Lots of debate on this topic, but I think everyone agrees full-screen FBs are toxic and shouldn't be a thing. They're not going to change FB animations at this point, but at least make full-screen FBs (e.g., Erron, Kabal, Geras, Cetrion, Noob) a lot slower. Even better would be if FBs had a lower activation point (from 30% to 25 or even 20%) and can only be attempted once a round.

Kombat League wifi filter. Yeah, yeah, I know we won't actually get this, but I can dream, right?

Other than stuff like that, I don't think we're going to see changes that would completely disrupt the meta. I don't see them increasing plus frames on everyone's pokes, making hop attacks launch for a combo, anything like that. That would create chaos and require completely re-balancing the characters all over again, and I don't think they want to do that. I could be wrong though... we'll see.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
How's plus frames on pokes a huge overhaul?
Literally every oh the latest DLC characters is +14 to +15 on their pokes.

It's just changing a number...
Yeah but the game has been balanced around the current frame data. No one can seriously argue that characters like Jacqui or Cassie (with their 9-frame mids) are underpowered because their pokes are only +10 on hit. And most would agree that out of all the DLC, only Joker is top tier (not really having to do with his pokes) and the others are mid- to low-tier at best. Hit advantage on pokes is already balanced in overall design.

So if you suddenly gave everyone big plus frames on their pokes, you'd be giving much more advantage to characters who already have plenty of advantages. It would wreck the current balance (such as it is) instead of improving it. No way does NRS want to take on cleaning that up. Besides, they already made a change (maybe a year ago now?) to make it easier to jail a high attack off a poke.

I'm fine with it if they make small plus frame adjustments to certain characters whose viability is really harmed by low poke hit advantage, but I'm not sure there are any...?
 
Yeah but the game has been balanced around the current frame data. No one can seriously argue that characters like Jacqui or Cassie (with their 9-frame mids) are underpowered because their pokes are only +10 on hit. And most would agree that out of all the DLC, only Joker is top tier (not really having to do with his pokes) and the others are mid- to low-tier at best. Hit advantage on pokes is already balanced in overall design.

So if you suddenly gave everyone big plus frames on their pokes, you'd be giving much more advantage to characters who already have plenty of advantages. It would wreck the current balance (such as it is) instead of improving it. No way does NRS want to take on cleaning that up. Besides, they already made a change (maybe a year ago now?) to make it easier to jail a high attack off a poke.

I'm fine with it if they make small plus frame adjustments to certain characters whose viability is really harmed by low poke hit advantage, but I'm not sure there are any...?
Scorpion, Kano and Kotal Kahn just to name a few who have either trouble jailing at all or have a 2 frame window to do so, while you can make youself a coffee and take a shit after hitting d1 and still can confirm into a jailing high as Spawn or Joker.

None of these character have massive plus frames on anything or 9-10 frame mids.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Yeah but the game has been balanced around the current frame data. No one can seriously argue that characters like Jacqui or Cassie (with their 9-frame mids) are underpowered because their pokes are only +10 on hit. And most would agree that out of all the DLC, only Joker is top tier (not really having to do with his pokes) and the others are mid- to low-tier at best. Hit advantage on pokes is already balanced in overall design.

So if you suddenly gave everyone big plus frames on their pokes, you'd be giving much more advantage to characters who already have plenty of advantages. It would wreck the current balance (such as it is) instead of improving it. No way does NRS want to take on cleaning that up. Besides, they already made a change (maybe a year ago now?) to make it easier to jail a high attack off a poke.

I'm fine with it if they make small plus frame adjustments to certain characters whose viability is really harmed by low poke hit advantage, but I'm not sure there are any...?
Kitana.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Scorpion, Kano and Kotal Kahn just to name a few who have either trouble jailing at all or have a 2 frame window to do so, while you can make youself a coffee and take a shit after hitting d1 and still can confirm into a jailing high as Spawn or Joker.

None of these character have massive plus frames on anything or 9-10 frame mids.
What you're saying here is true; I'm just not convinced it's a huge problem.

Scorpion has the best "fuck neutral" tool in the game (even after it got nerfed to a high), great buttons, great staggers, a safe overhead that breaks armor and launches in every variation... he doesn't need huge jab string pressure too.

Kotal has advancing mids that go like half-screen, a mid command grab, actually viable buff specials, can heal himself... if he got easy jab string pressure with that command grab, he'd be totally broken.

Spawn needs it. He's got no auto-shimmy and no fast mids, and the mids he has are super whiff punishable. Very fuzzyable mix. No strong zoning in any variation. If he wasn't able to pressure off his jab strings, then s3 would be the only real pressure tool he has.

Kano though... yeah, I'll give you that one. He's not bad at all, definitely not unviable, but he could use better hit confirms so he's not forced to play like a yolo wild man all the time. Good example of a character-specific adjustment that makes sense.

Ehh... Kitana's pokes are just bad, period. Either fast but super-stubby or rangey but slow. Her jabs are also slow. Buffing her poke hit advantage isn't going to fix those problems.
 
It'll probably an overhaul with the wakeup system, I don't expect them to remove any of the options, but they might make rolling more expensive (2 defensive bars or 1 offensive and 1 defensive). That's the only thing I can see them overhauling at this point.
 

CmC_HAt

Noob
i think they must buff the d1 pokes to 15f of hit adv at least, of characters without a 9 or 10f mid

change the breakway mechanic, like the breaker in mkx, so break and both players are far eachother

and the general gameplan: i would like that this game has more plus frames, mixups, more speedy, something like mk9, or mkx, or KI, some shits that you say... this is broken, but arent.

i thing that actualy the backbone of gameplan in mk11 is d1-throw , d1-9f mid, and i dont like that
 
i'm not gonna put it past nrs to do the bare minimum especially with that sorry ass armor breaker change but people are telling me big things are actually coming so fingers crossed
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Scorpion, Kano and Kotal Kahn just to name a few who have either trouble jailing at all or have a 2 frame window to do so, while you can make youself a coffee and take a shit after hitting d1 and still can confirm into a jailing high as Spawn or Joker.

None of these character have massive plus frames on anything or 9-10 frame mids.
Kotal Kahn has trouble jailing? Do what? His down 3 literally jails you to death following the poke with his 1, 2, Command Throw or 1, 2, Launcher or 1, 2, 2 for plus frames into MORE mix. Down 3 is +13, only 1 frame less than the pokes you have issue with, it's up there with the best jailing pokes in the game.
 
Honestly who knows where they are at with system overhauls
I just want a serious attempt because MK11 patch efforts have basically overall been fairly weak over the history of the game. This is basically your last big shot at doing something big, especially since this is the game is the one to finally break the 2 year cycle.

that and make shao kahn d3 at least +12 on hit come on guys :(
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Honestly who knows where they are at with system overhauls
I just want a serious attempt because MK11 patch efforts have basically overall been fairly weak over the history of the game. This is basically your last big shot at doing something big, especially since this is the game is the one to finally break the 2 year cycle.

that and make shao kahn d3 at least +12 on hit come on guys :(
Agreed, if you wanna look for a character who's pokes grant him pretty much fucking nothing look no further than Shao Kahn.