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Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
GTFO of here you downplayer! She's top 2, no doubt, in the game (and that's me being generous to the downplayers out there :p). Why, you ask? Well, let's run it down:


  • Top 3 damaging combos (probably higher, but I know baraka and geras have some big boy damage too)
  • Arguably best zoner (top 3 for sure) and can outzone even characters built to stop zoning with a kb attached to it that does 240 damage (as much as some characters bnbs lmao)
and just to add a cherry on top
- Near 500 damage fatal blow combo meaning, she's literally never out of a round/match

Basically a hyper rushdown character with ridiculous damage can ALSO force you to come to her which should be a big no no for a character that's so good when they're in your face. That's called not having any weaknesses. As much as I hate jacqui, that's how you need to do a rushdown character. They should have to work to get in, not, you work to get in and then be outclassed there as well. That's just herp levels of derp.

And that's without even mentioning the 50/50, but I omitted that due to what I'm about to say:

HOWEVER,
It's absolutely not all on the character and her tools. The absolute biggest reason why I, myself (not sure about anyone else), struggle with the matchup isn't really any of that. It's I don't know what her strings actually look like, so I never know when she's going overhead or low. All I know is what B1 looks like and I know the overhead can come after that. Then there's a bunch of kicking strings that I don't know the properties of so don't know where they will hit. Basically I just try to fuzzy and hope for the best. Aka, I need to lab like @sub_on_dubs was saying. I just hate labbing lmao



Think their name is @EMPRESS_SunFire . Could be wrong tho.

Either way, their Jade/Skarlet are so good. They get me hot.
That was beat ass 'n nuts!

Labbing her is essential, I need to do it more for sure, but now that Rakeem plays her it'll help. Her damage is still too much, regardless of MU knowledge or not. Onion rings need to be slower, 100%. It's so damn annoying to fight her as Kano, but the moment I have her in my arms, I think to myself "y'know Kano, that was worth it," as I amplify lumbar check and stick knives in her back, as she deserves.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
GTFO of here you downplayer! She's top 2, no doubt, in the game (and that's me being generous to the downplayers out there :p). Why, you ask? Well, let's run it down:


  • Top 3 damaging combos (probably higher, but I know baraka and geras have some big boy damage too)
  • Arguably best zoner (top 3 for sure) and can outzone even characters built to stop zoning with a kb attached to it that does 240 damage (as much as some characters bnbs lmao)
and just to add a cherry on top
- Near 500 damage fatal blow combo meaning, she's literally never out of a round/match

Basically a hyper rushdown character with ridiculous damage can ALSO force you to come to her which should be a big no no for a character that's so good when they're in your face. That's called not having any weaknesses. As much as I hate jacqui, that's how you need to do a rushdown character. They should have to work to get in, not, you work to get in and then be outclassed there as well. That's just herp levels of derp.

And that's without even mentioning the 50/50, but I omitted that due to what I'm about to say:

HOWEVER,
It's absolutely not all on the character and her tools. The absolute biggest reason why I, myself (not sure about anyone else), struggle with the matchup isn't really any of that. It's I don't know what her strings actually look like, so I never know when she's going overhead or low. All I know is what B1 looks like and I know the overhead can come after that. Then there's a bunch of kicking strings that I don't know the properties of so don't know where they will hit. Basically I just try to fuzzy and hope for the best. Aka, I need to lab like @sub_on_dubs was saying. I just hate labbing lmao



Think their name is @EMPRESS_SunFire . Could be wrong tho.

Either way, their Jade/Skarlet are so good. They get me hot.
Well, to counter this, she has garbage mids. F3 is plus 1 on block, which since she has bad mids, only gives a poke. On hit she gets a knockdown and it does less than 17%. F41+3 is a restand that is nice, but again on block is negative 3. Can be cancelled into a slew of unsafe specials that are lows and/or full combo punishable, or her rings that start high, meterburned the second hit can be flawless blocked for a punish. B2 is 11 frames and every extension of that string has a gap big enough to get a combo in between. To even call her a rushdown character is generous. Her damage comes from high starting strings. 90% of the time, her damage comes from capitalizing on the opponents mistakes, not the mixup people complain about. 134, has no mixup, it is high low mid. There is no reason to be hit by the low aside from someone trying to stagger a standing jab, or the opponent not knowing it’s a low. B123 starts high and is full combo punishable. Sure, it’s a mixup, but everywhere but the corner the low version leads to very minimal damage, and rings don’t combo. Her Zoning being top 3 is a bill. Shang Cetrion Skarlet all have better zoning, and DoW Sub Zero shits her zoning down with amp Ice ball. Cassie low profiles rings and wins as well. Orbital drop helps in these Mus, but it’s reactable, wont come out if hit before her walkie talkie animation is finished, and doesn’t reach full screen.

You admit yourself you don’t know her strings, so I’m going to go ahead and let you know, she’s not top 3. Honestly, not debatable when Erron can get 60% off one combo into a throw or f4 or slide with one bar, and Sonya gets 40% for the same, but it’s a combo so people notice it easier I guess. Cassie has a 9f mid that’s 0 on block and leads to her full combo and she has a To put you back in a stagger/throw mix. But it’s not overhead/low so people don’t think of it the same I guess. She also has the best projectile, doesn’t need a kB because she can meterburn it for damage multiple times a match, unlike Sonya’s one and done 240 projectile. Geras’ gets access to several Krushing Blows that trigger on the easiest requirement possible and does comparable midscreen damage to Sonya. He also has a instant zoning tool in a low projectile that one of those KBs are attached to.

Sonya is very good, but you’re upplaying very very hard. She’ll get nerfed either way, but she’s outside of top 3. Her and Jacqui are about the same. They seem very strong to everyone but people who spend time in practice mode. But you’re entitled to your opinion. If you think she’s top 2, I can’t stop you from saying that.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Well, to counter this, she has garbage mids. F3 is plus 1 on block, which since she has bad mids, only gives a poke. On hit she gets a knockdown and it does less than 17%. F41+3 is a restand that is nice, but again on block is negative 3. Can be cancelled into a slew of unsafe specials that are lows and/or full combo punishable, or her rings that start high, meterburned the second hit can be flawless blocked for a punish. B2 is 11 frames and every extension of that string has a gap big enough to get a combo in between. To even call her a rushdown character is generous. Her damage comes from high starting strings. 90% of the time, her damage comes from capitalizing on the opponents mistakes, not the mixup people complain about. 134, has no mixup, it is high low mid. There is no reason to be hit by the low aside from someone trying to stagger a standing jab, or the opponent not knowing it’s a low. B123 starts high and is full combo punishable. Sure, it’s a mixup, but everywhere but the corner the low version leads to very minimal damage, and rings don’t combo. Her Zoning being top 3 is a bill. Shang Cetrion Skarlet all have better zoning, and DoW Sub Zero shits her zoning down with amp Ice ball. Cassie low profiles rings and wins as well. Orbital drop helps in these Mus, but it’s reactable, wont come out if hit before her walkie talkie animation is finished, and doesn’t reach full screen.

You admit yourself you don’t know her strings, so I’m going to go ahead and let you know, she’s not top 3. Honestly, not debatable when Erron can get 60% off one combo into a throw or f4 or slide with one bar, and Sonya gets 40% for the same, but it’s a combo so people notice it easier I guess. Cassie has a 9f mid that’s 0 on block and leads to her full combo and she has a To put you back in a stagger/throw mix. But it’s not overhead/low so people don’t think of it the same I guess. She also has the best projectile, doesn’t need a kB because she can meterburn it for damage multiple times a match, unlike Sonya’s one and done 240 projectile. Geras’ gets access to several Krushing Blows that trigger on the easiest requirement possible and does comparable midscreen damage to Sonya. He also has a instant zoning tool in a low projectile that one of those KBs are attached to.

Sonya is very good, but you’re upplaying very very hard. She’ll get nerfed either way, but she’s outside of top 3. Her and Jacqui are about the same. They seem very strong to everyone but people who spend time in practice mode. But you’re entitled to your opinion. If you think she’s top 2, I can’t stop you from saying that.
17% on a knockdown for Sonya isn't bad because you're encouraged not to wakeup due to potentially being punished for it for another 40%, which means you're blocking the next mixup which also can still lead to the 40% OR the same situation you were just in. That's scary af.

As for the zoning, I literally saw her outzone Erron Black (the character who can delete your projectiles from the screen) at viennality. If that's not top zoning, idk what is. Hell, multiple matches were literally just Tekken Master standing on the other side of the screen throwing rings vs the likes of Kung Lao and Erron Black. Cetrion is definitely better at zoning, but she was built for that. Sonya wasn't, that's the difference. Her projectile shouldn't be nearly as fast or damaging as it is. Maybe she should have to heat her gauntlets up in order to zone eh? :p

Erron doesn't have any 60% combos and the difference is, you're taking all 40% vs Sonya unless you breakaway which leaves you with no defense and at her mercy right next to her. With Erron, you can take the combo (and not have half your life bar deleted) and then have a choice in how to stop him next wakeup/roll/etc. Don't get me wrong Erron is dumb af what with being the leader of the one string army and safe af brigade.

It's all good though, I highly respect your knowledge of the game and your efforts in labbing. Thus, perhaps you are correct. I'll try to force myself into the lab tonight and see what's what on her strings.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
17% on a knockdown for Sonya isn't bad because you're encouraged not to wakeup due to potentially being punished for it for another 40%, which means you're blocking the next mixup which also can still lead to the 40% OR the same situation you were just in. That's scary af.

As for the zoning, I literally saw her outzone Erron Black (the character who can delete your projectiles from the screen) at viennality. If that's not top zoning, idk what is. Hell, multiple matches were literally just Tekken Master standing on the other side of the screen throwing rings vs the likes of Kung Lao and Erron Black. Cetrion is definitely better at zoning, but she was built for that. Sonya wasn't, that's the difference. Her projectile shouldn't be nearly as fast or damaging as it is. Maybe she should have to heat her gauntlets up in order to zone eh? :p

Erron doesn't have any 60% combos and the difference is, you're taking all 40% vs Sonya unless you breakaway which leaves you with no defense and at her mercy right next to her. With Erron, you can take the combo (and not have half your life bar deleted) and then have a choice in how to stop him next wakeup/roll/etc. Don't get me wrong Erron is dumb af what with being the leader of the one string army and safe af brigade.

It's all good though, I highly respect your knowledge of the game and your efforts in labbing. Thus, perhaps you are correct. I'll try to force myself into the lab tonight and see what's what on her strings.
Actually I lied, its a 10% knockdown on f3. Sonya can not outzone Erron, that was player mistake. F4 beats orbital drop and scudshot beats everything else. Sonya is designed for zoning in MK11. She wants you to commit to something unsafe out of frustration. Usually a jump in or an unga bunga attack, then she capitalizes on that.

I didnt say Erron gets a 60%combo, I said setup. B2 combo, amp slide ender, guess between throw, oh, mid, or low, WHILE taking DoT whether you guess right or not. Guess right? 42%,

Jax has far better Rushdown than Sonya, way better mids and staggers. A ridiculously damaging cmnd throw kb, a full screen grab/mid mixup, and top 3 fatal blow. Technically more oh/low mixups, and his projectile does require a resource, but if it didnt what would HIS weakness be?

Sonya’s weakness is characters who can outzone her, Shang Cetrion Cassie Skarlet Geras, or characters with mid or close range normals that eviscerate her shitty mids, Skarlet, Cassie, jacqui, Erron.

I respect your opinion too, bro. Thats why Im glad we can talk about it. Just for the sake of conversation, I think the top 5 is
1:Erron Black
2:Kabal
3:Cassie
4:Geras
5:Sonya
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Funny seeing Jax players upplay Sonya in hopes of deflecting from the dirt their character has lul
I'm not upplaying her in order to deflect anything from Jax. But when jax makes a correct read, he gets 18% unless he can KB (which requires either fully heated arms, a full charge b2 which is hella unsafe, or 2 bars for command grab). That's like 5 successful reads he needs to make vs 2.5 for Sonya and other characters with similar damage.

Jax is really good. Don't think he holds a candle to Sonya tho.

Also, I'm playing him a lot less these days because he seems pretty gimmicky and he gets zoned out, which I despise. Think I may make the full time switch back to my main of the olden days.

Actually I lied, its a 10% knockdown on f3. Sonya can not outzone Erron, that was player mistake. F4 beats orbital drop and scudshot beats everything else. Sonya is designed for zoning in MK11. She wants you to commit to something unsafe out of frustration. Usually a jump in or an unga bunga attack, then she capitalizes on that.

I didnt say Erron gets a 60%combo, I said setup. B2 combo, amp slide ender, guess between throw, oh, mid, or low, WHILE taking DoT whether you guess right or not. Guess right? 42%,

Jax has far better Rushdown than Sonya, way better mids and staggers. A ridiculously damaging cmnd throw kb, a full screen grab/mid mixup, and top 3 fatal blow. Technically more oh/low mixups, and his projectile does require a resource, but if it didnt what would HIS weakness be?

Sonya’s weakness is characters who can outzone her, Shang Cetrion Cassie Skarlet Geras, or characters with mid or close range normals that eviscerate her shitty mids, Skarlet, Cassie, jacqui, Erron.

I respect your opinion too, bro. Thats why Im glad we can talk about it. Just for the sake of conversation, I think the top 5 is
1:Erron Black
2:Kabal
3:Cassie
4:Geras
5:Sonya
Well, if she's designed for zoning, then I'd argue that her damage needs toning down.
Jax's weakness is exactly the same. He gets outzoned by characters like Cetrion and Skarlet.

Like I said tho, I'm gonna stop by training mode tonight and try to learn some more about Sonya. :)
Yeah, conversations are great and promote thinking about the situations. When no one gets butthurt or starts name-calling, that's when good stuff can happen.

And just to follow suit, my top 5:

  1. Sonya/Kabal
  2. Kabal/Sonya
  3. Erron Black
  4. Cassie
  5. Baraka/Jacqui/Geras
which is technically a top 7 I guess, but I'm unsure of who's better at number 5.
 

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
I'm not upplaying her in order to deflect anything from Jax. But when jax makes a correct read, he gets 18% unless he can KB (which requires either fully heated arms, a full charge b2 which is hella unsafe, or 2 bars for command grab). That's like 5 successful reads he needs to make vs 2.5 for Sonya and other characters with similar damage.

Jax is really good. Don't think he holds a candle to Sonya tho.

Also, I'm playing him a lot less these days because he seems pretty gimmicky and he gets zoned out, which I despise. Think I may make the full time switch back to my main of the olden days
Dont take anything I say seriously. I mostly just shitpost lol
 

Tanya-Fan-28

TanyaShouldBeInMK11
WUT?!

I thought she was saying "feet" ass 'n nuts? I thought she just had some fetishes lmao
Yeah I always thought she said feet ass 'n nuts to. Like as in kicking. On top of that, in her intro with Skarlet, she responds to her blood having fire in it with "So do my feet & fists". For a while I was like "Bruh this bih talks about feet too much" lol