General/Other - Grandmaster Tournament Proof Point Blank Klone Shatter Needs To Be Fixed

[crosshair271]

lmfao while 16bit's been posting in this thread the whole time

Okay testers.

 

[RM Ree]

I could see why they would program a same frame hit interaction to cause a restand for a low and overhead attack hitting at the same time, but I'm not sure 2 mids shouldn't combo in a similar case. This isn't setting up an unblockable... It's taking the hit and making it punishable. The shatter is clearly turning an auto block on, same as Quan's skull used to. This doesn't feel like an "overhaul" to fix this one issue and we're not exactly asking for damage. We just don't want the hit to be unsafe. There are more elegant fixes for this than to restand the opponent. Make the combo achieve max gravity so the opponent falls out or something.

For those of you waiting for SZ nerfs, keep waiting scrubs, you're still going to lose to better players. It's not our character that's the problem, it's you.

 

[crosshair271]

I could see why they would program a same frame hit interaction to cause a restand for a low and overhead attack hitting at the same time, but I'm not sure 2 mids shouldn't combo in a similar case. This isn't setting up an unblockable... It's taking the hit and making it punishable. The shatter is clearly turning an auto block on, same as Quan's skull used to. This doesn't feel like an "overhaul" to fix this one issue and we're not exactly asking for damage. We just don't want the hit to be unsafe. There are more elegant fixes for this than to restand the opponent. Make the combo achieve max gravity so the opponent falls out or something.

For those of you waiting for SZ nerfs, keep waiting scrubs, you're still going to lose to better players. It's not our character that's the problem, it's you.

That was my response that it wasn't an unblockable but it was stated that it was to counter some resets in the beta (even double hits while airborne). For this scenario the 2 hits shouldn't be a problem. Or as I suggested make Burst out prioritize Shatter. This way we can get the combo and knockdown but lose out on Shatter hit and damage. If the enemy stumbled like when hit with raw Shards it wouldn't be so bad.

Just tested a little more and strangely Quan can combo from Low Bat and JI1,141. I hit the Low Bat and JI1 at the same time and it dropped the Bat hit but let me continue the 141. @G4S J360 I had the dummy on auto block and it didn't get forced into a standing block like what happened with Sub.

 

[Goat-City-II]

Every change grandmaster should ideally get is - b33 connecting with iceball meterlessly midscreen on all characters, EX frost bomb launching slightly higher to make combos more consistent, f12 should be nerfed to do 9% instead of 12%, b2 should do 7% instead of 9%, EX clone should be 100% consistent after b12, and corner combos should work on females just as consistently as they do males without having to use meter. It'd also be nice if knocking the opponent into an ice clone after a freeze would do 8% damage instead of 4% just so his 1 bar combos midscreen would be flashier and do a bit more damage at the sacrifice of corner carry, but this isn't a big deal by any means.

Giving the shatter priority over the burst isn't necessary and might overpower him since he already has amazing corner game and damage for no meter.

 

[crosshair271]

Tested Quans low Bat with his crouching normals. If timed perfectly together it drops the Bat hit and damage but counts the normal attack. Here is the strange part, the dummy still did it's hurt animation then blocked. Not block but take damage like the Shatter. I wonder which characters moves cause reactions like Quan+Bat and which cause Sub+Burst+Shatter.

 

[God Confirm]

You aren't suppose to shatter that close anyway. You can't even convert off it.

That's just something you have to keep in mind as a Sub Zero player.

Plenty of things can't be converted off, 12 isn't hitconfirmable, the Shatter should knockdown here, instead it leaves you at a disadvantage where it shouldn't which I imagine could mess up Subs corner game at times it shouldn't right ?

lmao, sub zero players.


"my space-dependent combo isn't working at the improper spacing!!! Fix it!!"

lmao

Actually, it's not working at the PROPER spacing.

 

[JDM]

yes it most definitely does. That's not the proper spacing in the video, that's way too close.

 

[RagingRicans]

yes it most definitely does. That's not the proper spacing in the video, that's way too close.

As a sub player you should recognize 12 shatter isn't going to work in this distance/situation and avoid it.

Maybe I'm just different, but when I first encountered that problem my only thoughts were "Okay, that doesn't work let me stop doing it" he has better safer options in the corner when clone is that close anyway.

I just don't see this as an issue..

 

[crosshair271]

As a sub player you should recognize 12 shatter isn't going to work in this distance/situation and avoid it.

Maybe I'm just different, but when I first encountered that problem my only thoughts were "Okay, that doesn't work let me stop doing it" he has better safer options in the corner when clone is that close anyway.

I just don't see this as an issue..

I recognized it too but also wanted to understand why it happened, if it was an error/fixable, if any other characters have this. At this point it is a small trade off whether you want to smother an opponent but risk no knockdown or give some space to combo and risk armors.

I'm also trying to make a small video showing the inconsistencies of this multi hit same frame scenario.

 

[crosshair271]

So I recorded some same frame multi hits using Quan Chi and the results are not consistent with what @16 Bit and @G4S J360 said. The enemy is suppose to autoblock when 2 hits happen at the same time even in the air. Quan seems to be a special case because the enemy is not autoblocking instantly. He even got a combo string off. I tried to replicate scenarios like these with Cassie, D'vorah and Sonya but I couldn't get it to work. Would anyone be willing to help me test this and see if there are inconsistencies?

 

[M.D.]

Well as long as we're at tweaking sub how about those nerfs for this patch?

 

[NYCj360]

Jacqui rocket, sonya grenade, reptile slow ball

So I recorded some same frame multi hits using Quan Chi and the results are not consistent with what @16 Bit and @G4S J360 said. The enemy is suppose to autoblock when 2 hits happen at the same time even in the air. Quan seems to be a special case because the enemy is not autoblocking instantly. He even got a combo string off. I tried to replicate scenarios like these with Cassie, D'vorah and Sonya but I couldn't get it to work. Would anyone be willing to help me test this and see if there are inconsistencies?

In this case the bat is completely disregarded, if it is not an autoblock scenario than the game will negate the bat just like it did in order to prevent an unblockable. It's working as intended. It can happen with any mixture of independent projectile and low, mid, high or overhead normal.

There are some cases however where it will not be a high and low, instead it is a high and over head example being reptiles slow ball and b2, it will restand them from any height. It's a property they gave to independent projectiles.

 

[JDM]

As a sub player you should recognize 12 shatter isn't going to work in this distance/situation and avoid it.

Maybe I'm just different, but when I first encountered that problem my only thoughts were "Okay, that doesn't work let me stop doing it" he has better safer options in the corner when clone is that close anyway.

I just don't see this as an issue..

gut em

 

[RM Ree]

It would be a different, less serious issue if the hits knocked down. And of course if it doesn't work, then Sub Zero players won't use it. But the fact remains that this set up is punishable on hit. This kind of interaction should be fixed out of principle alone. If it's not a Sub Zero specific issue, then all the better. If it's working as intended, then bad on NRS. Hopefully they'll do right by us, the consumers, and fix this fundamental flaw so players don't get blown up for successfully getting past our opponents guard.

 

[crosshair271]

Jacqui rocket, sonya grenade, reptile slow ball


In this case the bat is completely disregarded, if it is not an autoblock scenario than the game will negate the bat just like it did in order to prevent an unblockable. It's working as intended. It can happen with any mixture of independent projectile and low, mid, high or overhead normal.

There are some cases however where it will not be a high and low, instead it is a high and over head example being reptiles slow ball and b2, it will restand them from any height. It's a property they gave to independent projectiles.

I see, very hectic and chaotic to give different properties instead of keeping consistency but it must be like this for a reason.

It would be a different, less serious issue if the hits knocked down. And of course if it doesn't work, then Sub Zero players won't use it. But the fact remains that this set up is punishable on hit. This kind of interaction should be fixed out of principle alone. If it's not a Sub Zero specific issue, then all the better. If it's working as intended, then bad on NRS. Hopefully they'll do right by us, the consumers, and fix this fundamental flaw so players don't get blown up for successfully getting past our opponents guard.

If they just changed the auto-block to connecting shards it would be fine. Drop Burst like the Bat and keep the shards stumble. Can't combo off it so it creates a reset state(Nut punch etc.)

 

[Qwark28]

Clone shatter does not combo on hit.
If two moves hit on the same frame one will take priority.
So if clone shatter and burst hit at the same time the shatter is taking priority and since you cannot combo after shatter the burst is blockable.
in this scenario the game is working correctly.

please buff joker in injustice 2