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Top 5 my A**

XxSYNDROISxX

XxSYNDROISxX

For the Shokan since Mk3
I'm sorry maybe this is just my opinion but she is not top 5
  • decent zoning but get zoned out by too many characters
  • 50/50 suck you can literally see the 50/50 coming a mile away
Someone explain to me why people are saying she's top five because I just spent almost 600 games with her and I'm not seeing it
 
crosstalk

crosstalk

Kombatant
Bottom 5 maybe, definitely not top 5. The only time people thought she was legit top 5 was almost a year and a half ago.

  • still has 950 health which is a handicap for no reason - still an overreaction in my opinion when everyone thought she was #1 when the game first came out (at the time the meta wasn't fully evolved and over time, I think Sonya would've still been good but definitely not in the top 5)
  • easily mashed on because her good options start with a high and she has no good mids or lows to check with (too slow, punishable, or no range)
  • her low starter b3 string to check opponents is full of FB gaps and is interruptible unlike Johnny's b34 for example
  • way too many counterzoning options in this game to make her zoning any decent (it does work in some MUs but you have to basically drop zoning in a lot of MUs which is one of her only real strengths) - the game is very antizoning in general
  • doesn't have good customs and didn't receive a boost like many other characters (also characters like Kano and Frost jumped ahead of her on the tier list with customs and hitbox fixes)
  • has lots of bad MUs and isn't very viable competitively in my opinion, it'll be tough going 100% Sonya (there's a reason Scar dropped her for Kung Lao a long time ago - a lot of her bad MUs are also against common tournament characters)
In my opinion she's dropped down further in the tier list with Ultimate. She was a mid tier character in Aftermath but now with customs and her not receiving any significant changes, other characters she used to be better than are now ahead of her. Most other characters in this game are autopilot and have way too many good options. I wouldn't be surprised if she'll end up being in the bottom 5 in most top player's tier lists going forward. She already was in a lot of top player's tier lists for Aftermath like Rewind, Kombat, Avirk, etc.

RoboCop said:
What characters does she struggle against?
Click to expand...
In my opinion Cetrion, Shang, Cassie, Fujin, Jacqui, Jade, Liu, Scorpion, Sindel, Mileena, Erron, Sub, Johnny, and Joker are all bad MUs. They either outzone her, eliminate her zoning options, or have 7f jabs to punish most of her options like her amp ring or b3. There might be a few others like Frost, Kitana, Lao, and Geras but I've had them at even for now. She's become pigeonholed to be a zoner in a very antizoning game.
 
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XxSYNDROISxX

XxSYNDROISxX

For the Shokan since Mk3
crosstalk said:
Bottom 5 maybe, definitely not top 5. The only time people thought she was legit top 5 was almost a year and a half ago.

  • still has 950 health which is a handicap for no reason - still an overreaction in my opinion when everyone thought she was #1 when the game first came out (at the time the meta wasn't fully evolved and over time, I think Sonya would've still been good but definitely not in the top 5)
  • easily mashed on because her good options start with a high and she has no good mids or lows to check with (too slow, punishable, or no range)
  • her low starter b3 string to check opponents is full of FB gaps and is interruptible unlike Johnny's b34 for example
  • way too many counterzoning options in this game to make her zoning any decent (it does work in some MUs but you have to basically drop zoning in a lot of MUs which is one of her only real strengths) - the game is very antizoning in general
  • doesn't have good customs and didn't receive a boost like many other characters (also characters like Kano and Frost jumped ahead of her on the tier list with customs and hitbox fixes)
  • has lots of bad MUs and isn't very viable competitively in my opinion, it'll be tough going 100% Sonya (there's a reason Scar dropped her for Kung Lao a long time ago - a lot of her bad MUs are also against common tournament characters)
In my opinion she's dropped down further in the tier list with Ultimate. She was a mid tier character in Aftermath but now with customs and her not receiving any significant changes, other characters she used to be better than are now ahead of her. Most other characters in this game are autopilot and have way too many good options. I wouldn't be surprised if she'll end up being in the bottom 5 in most top player's tier lists going forward. She already was in a lot of top player's tier lists for Aftermath like Rewind, Kombat, Avirk, etc.


In my opinion Cetrion, Shang, Cassie, Fujin, Jacqui, Jade, Liu, Scorpion, Sindel, Mileena, Erron, Sub, Johnny, and Joker are all bad MUs. They either outzone her, eliminate her zoning options, or have 7f jabs to punish most of her options like her amp ring or b3. There might be a few others like Frost, Kitana, Lao, and Geras but I've had them at even for now. She's become pigeonholed to be a zoner in a very antizoning game.
Click to expand...
Dude I literally couldn't have said it better myself
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
I don’t think anyone is claiming she’s top 5?

She’s certainly not however as bad as you’re making her out to be. Her pressure with 333 and ring cancels is strong. Her zoning with drone drop and rings is decent, her mixups are still strong and (despite what you claim) unreactable.

You’re correct in saying that the addition of customs didn’t really do much for her. Granted now she can swap the air downward rings (which has very limited use) for something more useful such as counters or her new armour break; but in comparison to what other characters got it’s really not an awful lot.
 
XxSYNDROISxX

XxSYNDROISxX

For the Shokan since Mk3
Pan1cMode said:
I don’t think anyone is claiming she’s top 5?

She’s certainly not however as bad as you’re making her out to be. Her pressure with 333 and ring cancels is strong. Her zoning with drone drop and rings is decent, her mixups are still strong and (despite what you claim) unreactable.

You’re correct in saying that the addition of customs didn’t really do much for her. Granted now she can swap the air downward rings (which has very limited use) for something more useful such as counters or her new armour break; but in comparison to what other characters got it’s really not an awful lot.
Click to expand...
The only reason anybody should be hit with that b12 is it they have really slow reactions or do the online shenanigans anything else then they just have really slow reactions. Plain and simple
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
XxSYNDROISxX said:
The only reason anybody should be hit with that b12 is it they have really slow reactions or do the online shenanigans anything else then they just have really slow reactions. Plain and simple
Click to expand...
I’m actually not gonna take the bait here because I know you’re either trolling, or just incredibly misinformed.

d1 is +13 on hit; jails into b1
d3 is +14 on hit, jails into b1
d4 is +20 on hit, jails into b1

Are you legitimately claiming you can react or OS block the overhead and low consistently? It’s a 1 frame fuzzy off a very fast startup.

Please record yourself in training mode consistently blocking it. Set Sonya to d3 then b14 or b12 on random hidden playback.
 
XxSYNDROISxX

XxSYNDROISxX

For the Shokan since Mk3
Sigh where in my original post did I mention anything about d1 d3 d4
The 2 in b12 is slow.
If you're blocking low you will see it coming as soon as it starts
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
XxSYNDROISxX said:
The only reason anybody should be hit with that b12 is it they have really slow reactions or do the online shenanigans anything else then they just have really slow reactions. Plain and simple
Click to expand...
Do you have any proof top players can react to 18f with a 1 frame fuzzy. Let's keep in mind the next Pro-Kompetition is Online (3f delay static) and lag that will fluctuate.
I only know of SonicFox reacting to Sub Zero's F2 overhead(19f) and it has a much larger fuzzy window. Many top players claimed they couldn't react to that consistently. Even SonicFox the best NRS player of all time even said he can't React to Subs F2(19f overhead) in the neutral! He said on stream he could react if it was from a JIP2, 2 stagger into the B32/F2 mix by seeing the axe animation, but if it was in the neutral like 90% of the match he couldn't react. That's the best Mortal Kombat 11 and MKX player of all time saying he could only react to a 19f move when it was a setup without staggering or delaying the inputs.
And you are claiming anyone can react to a 18f just frame fuzzy mixup?

Set up a recording with the AI dummy doing D1 into:
  • B123
  • B14
  • Back throw
  • Forward Throw
And make sure it's on hidden playback on Random cycle. If it's as easy as you say and you have faster reactions than SonicFox then you should be able to successfully react to all those options 20+ times without fail. Keep in mind there are more options than just 4 to look out for including, staggers, number of hit mix, setups and delayed mix throwing off your timing to fuzzy.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
XxSYNDROISxX said:
Sigh where in my original post did I mention anything about d1 d3 d4
The 2 in b12 is slow.
If you're blocking low you will see it coming as soon as it starts
Click to expand...
The point about d1/d3/d4 is she can now easily find situations where you are forced to block the b1 so it’s not just a matter of throwing it out in the neutral.
I don’t know how you’re reacting to an overhead that fast. You can react to the b1 and block overhead, but then you’re susceptible to the low. Please show us all how you manage to react to the overhead.


MKX jacqui has essentially the same mixup (b2 was overhead at 18 frames, b3 low at 17 frames) and no one claimed to be able to react to those (despite the fact that the MKX Jacqui b2 was a much bigger swing and more telegraphed).
 
Temptress

Temptress

Edenian Empress
Sonya having 950 health and receiving nerfs that affected her combo pathing and damage while Kotal exists with 1100 health and his damage output is still a supreme joke.

She needs her nerfs reverted because she still wouldn’t be top tier IMO. Especially not with her pathetic neutral and lack of any good mids.
 
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