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Time to Pool Our Efforts- Universal MU Listing

Skedar70

Noob
Gorilla Grodd

Aquaman: 4-6
Atrocitus: 4-6* (Dex-Starr Dependant)
Bane: 4-6
Batman: 4-6
Black Adam: 4-6
Black Canary: 4-6
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 4-6
Catwoman: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: TF
Deadshot: 4-6
Dr. Fate: 5-5
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 4-6
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 4-6
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 4-6
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 4-6
Supergirl: 3-7
Superman: 4-6
Swamp Thing: 6-4
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Red Hood: 4-6
Sub-Zero: 4-6
Starfire: 4-6
Black Manta: 4-6
Raiden: 4-6
Hellboy: no idea

These are my numbers. Flame as you wish boys and girls. *Holds up shield*

EDIT 1: I put 10-0 on Gorilla Grodd as a previous joke. Disregard.
EDIT 2: Changed Bane from a 5-5 to a 4-6. Sorry Crazy. Hope this reaches you in time...
Wow. Now that is a serious downplay.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Why do you think it could be a 5-5? I've probably never fought a scary enough Ivy, but I've always thought it to be one of Adam's better matchups.
I think it’s in Adams favor too but I’ve seen some people argue even.

It’s honestly not too bad for Ivy. His floaty jump actually makes her d2 useful and if he does Dive kick, she can MB b3 it on reaction(unless he does the iaDive). Dive kick itself is already punishable by b2. She punishes his cloud anywhere on the screen and drills aren’t too bad against him, but he wins the trade due to damage. Both have good footsies and neutral. Both have the damage.

Not a huge upbill battle for her.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
@CrazyFingers Just curious, how are you going to decide on final matchup numbers? The average of all responses?
I'm basing it on consensus. Basically if all the ivy players say 5-5 with catwoman and all the catwoman players agree, or at least the majority agree, that's the number.
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
DOCTOR FATE

Aquaman: 6-4
Atrocitus: 5-5
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 6-4
Captain Cold: 6-4
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Dr. Fate: 5-5
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Gorilla Grodd: 7-3
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 6-4
The Joker: 7-3
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Robin: 6-4
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Swamp Thing: 7-3
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5
Black Manta: 5-5 (not enought MU exp)
Raiden: 5-5 (not enought MU exp)
 
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Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
GREEN ARROW

Aquaman: 4-6
Atrocitus: 5-5
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 6-4
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 4-6
Dr. Fate: 4-6
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 6-4
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 4-6
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 6-4
Swamp Thing: 6-4
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5
Black Manta: 5-5 (not enough MU exp)
Raiden: 5-5 (not enough MU exp)
 

That Legion

PSN: "XO_Mellow"
Thanks man I appreciate the respect. I recognize your name so we definitely played ranked together. You main Crow too if I remember correctly.

As for the ratings.
Bane: I find that Crow abuses Bane so badly it makes me feel sad. Bane NEEDS to get in close and all Bane's have slow and predictable movements. So utilizing the full range of the hook from mid-screen allows you to swat Bane across the screen like a ragdoll. Using 2,2 will always catch Bane f dashing or jumping (if you catch him jumping you can F2 command grab after into like 200) Alternatively, if you can hard read Bane (which isn't very hard) you can catch him with a B3.

His only other way of getting in would be by using his charge with venom. But I found that if you time it perfectly, you can back jump over Bane AND land a jumping 3 for 150 without breaking his armor. After that, Crow has just enough reach with his F1, 3 string to strike Bane when he's recovering for a full combo.

As long as you're mindful of wakeups, Bane basically has no way of touching Crow.

Catwoman: It's definitely more defensive, but for this matchup I always felt that as long as Crow stays grounded it's much less likely that Catwoman will throw out the MB B3. Even if she does, simply doing nothing in a situation where Crow might land a F2 or something usually baits it out.

Other than that, her Jump 2 is still an issue, but it didn't feel like it was enough to warrant a 4-6.

Batman: I actually have no idea why I put that as 4-6. It should definitely be 3-7. (fixed it)
 

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
Wow. Now that is a serious downplay.
Provide an explanation relating to my MU numbers. I’ll wait. This is my current opinion. Grodd doesn’t have a lot of winning matchups. Just copping out and saying, “lol srs downply,” is not a very constructive argument for me to work with.
 
As nowhere near the strongest of Joker players here's my opinion

Aquaman: 5-5 maybe 4-6- I've read somewhere that people think Joker wins this but I don't see it.
Atrocitus: 5-5 - I almost put 4-6 but everything Atro does in this match up he does against everyone.
Bane: 5-5
Batman: 5-5- This is probably a controversial one. I don't think Batman wins this one.
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 4-6-Get mixed, no wake up really hurts in this match up because she can just keep the pressure on you all day. She ducks half of his mids if she's in any type of animation.
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7 For the same reasons Deadshot wins any match ups
Dr. Fate: 4-6 Like Deadshot except not as bad
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 4-6- Getting knocked down in this match up can feel like a death sentence. Trying to punish lightning kick can earn you a d2 for your trouble unless you're frame perfect.
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6 Another zoning match up. Hard 4-6
Green Lantern: 5-5 -
Harley Quinn: 5-5
The Joker: Mirror
Poison Ivy: 5-5
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 4-6 - Ouch, she can do whatever she wants. She's better at every part of the screen.
Superman: 4-6- Same here, better in the neutral, better zoning, better mobility.
Swamp Thing: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 4-6 Few lows is the saving grace of the match up, keeps it from being further in WW's favor.
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 4-6- He's gotta do all the work in the match up. She's got to play keep away. Would be 3-7 like Deadshot but her upclose game isn't nearly as good as his.
Black Manta: 5-5
Raiden: ?
Hellboy: ?
 
Fuck it, everyone already hates me for my opinions so here you go buddy.

Character vs. Supergirl

??? = Need more experience to say for sure.

Aquaman: 5-5
Atrocitus: 5-5
Bane: 5-5
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 4-6
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 4-6
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 5-5
Dr. Fate: 5-5
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5
The Joker: 4-6
Poison Ivy: 4-6
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 5-5
Swamp Thing: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 6-4
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5
Black Manta: 5-5
Raiden: ???
Hellboy: ???

Winning: 5
Even: 26
Losing: 2
???: 2
This hurts...
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Just a casual nobody with most of my matches coming from Ranked and a handful of sets with a few TYM guys. Going to be a lot of 5-5's because I think GL is arguably the most balanced in the game but here goes...

Green Lantern:

Aquaman: 5-5
Atrocitus: 6-4
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 4-6 (uughh)
Dr. Fate: 4-6 (uughh)
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 4-6
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 5-5
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Swamp Thing: 5-5 (maybe 6-4)
Wonder Woman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4)
Red Hood: 4-6
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5
Black Manta: 5-5
Raiden: 5-5
I think GL loses to batman and Superman 4-6, I think GL beats Swampthing 6-4, I also think GL beats Robin 6-4.

What's your thinking on Grodd being 5-5? I haven't played many Grodds and almost zero good grodds, so I'm not experienced enough to say, but on paper I'd think we win that matchup.

I also agree with you that Fate and Deadshot are our worst matchups for sure.
 

Skedar70

Noob
Provide an explanation relating to my MU numbers. I’ll wait. This is my current opinion. Grodd doesn’t have a lot of winning matchups. Just copping out and saying, “lol srs downply,” is not a very constructive argument for me to work with.
Aquaman: 4-6
Atrocitus: 4-6* (Dex-Starr Dependant)
Black Adam: 4-6
Black Canary: 4-6
Captain Cold: 4-6
Catwoman: 4-6
Deadshot: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Lantern: 4-6
Scarecrow: 4-6
Supergirl: 3-7
Superman: 4-6
Red Hood: 4-6
Sub-Zero: 4-6
Starfire: 4-6
Black Manta: 4-6
Raiden: 4-6

I disagree with all of these losing MU that you mention especially the Atrocitus and Supergirl. I think Grodd beats atrocitus because his trait with projectile immunity and MB stampede, cancel out Dex-Starr. Supergirl is even. The rest I think are also even. I believe Grodd loses to Bane, Wonder Woman, Dr fate, Batman maybe a little bit to superman and Aquaman but not that much after Aquaman nerfs. I also think he probably beats Captain Cold because he doesn't allow CC to charge his gun because you can walk through the puddle with MB Stampede or you can leap over it so they always have to be looking out for this instead of charging the gun.

No wonder with these numbers people believe Grodd is low tier. He is not he is solid mid and has the tools to compete he just requires a little bit more of practice.

I also disagree with him beating Swamp thing. Thats a 5-5.
 
For Blue Beetle

Aquaman 5/5
Atrocitus 6/4
Bane 6/4
Batman 4/6
Black Adam 5/5
Black Canary 6/4
Black Manta 5/5
Blue Beetle 5/5
Brainiac 5/5
Captain Cold 6/4
Catwoman 5/5
Cheetah 5/5
Cyborg 5/5
Darkseid 5/5
Deadshot 4/6
Dr Fate 6/4
Firestorm 5/5
Flash 5/5
Gorilla Grodd 6/4
Green Arrow 4/6
Green Lantern 5/5
Harley Quinn 5/5
Joker 6/4
Ivy 6/4
Raiden 5/5
Red Hood 5/5
Robin 5/5
Scarecrow 5/5
Starfire 5/5
SubZero 6/4
Supergirl 5/5
Superman 5/5
Swampthing 6/4
Wonderwoman 5/5

10 Winning MU's
21 Even MU's
3 Loosing MU's
tfw blue beetles got a better mu chart than myri's supergirl mu chart. What has this world come to
 
Time to lose all credibility guys! This is for all you green arrow up players
GREEN ARROW MATCH UPS

Aquaman: 5-5 (yea ik)
Atrocitus: 5-5
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5 (THATS RIGHT)
Black Adam: 4-6
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 6-4
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 6-4
Catwoman: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 4-6
Darkseid: 4-6
Deadshot: 4-6
Dr. Fate: 3-7
Firestorm: 6-4
Flash: 6-4
Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 6-4
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 7-3
Supergirl: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Swamp Thing: 7-3
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5

Winning: 11
Losing: 9
Even: 10
I would put controversial next to the controversial ones but theyre basically all controversial.
Play GA as a counter pick that most likely will be counter picked back.
Please stop the up play
 
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Yoaks

A spaceman
Time to lose all credibility guys! This is for all you green arrow up players
GREEN ARROW MATCH UPS

Aquaman: 5-5 (yea ik)
Atrocitus: 5-5
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5 (THATS RIGHT)
Black Adam: 4-6
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 6-4
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 6-4
Catwoman: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 4-6
Darkseid: 4-6
Deadshot: 4-6
Dr. Fate: 3-7
Firestorm: 6-4
Flash: 6-4
Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 6-4
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 7-3
Supergirl: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Swamp Thing: 7-3
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Red Hood: 5-5
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5

Winning: 11
Losing: 9
Even: 10
I would put controversial next to the controversial ones but theyre basically all controversial.
Play GA as a counter pick that most likely will be counter picked back.
Please stop the up play
Your thoughts on the WW mu?

I keep hearing he beats her but I have 0 mu experience against Arrow.
 

gitblame

Noob
Just a casual nobody with most of my matches coming from Ranked and a handful of sets with a few TYM guys. Going to be a lot of 5-5's because I think GL is arguably the most balanced in the game but here goes...

Green Lantern:

Aquaman: 5-5
Atrocitus: 6-4
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 5-5
Captain Cold: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 4-6 (uughh)
Dr. Fate: 4-6 (uughh)
Firestorm: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 4-6
The Joker: 6-4
Poison Ivy: 5-5
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Swamp Thing: 5-5 (maybe 6-4)
Wonder Woman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4)
Red Hood: 4-6
Sub-Zero: 5-5
Starfire: 5-5
Black Manta: 5-5
Raiden: 5-5
Definetly agree on most of them. If I would have to change some numbers you posted:
- I think GL wins with Wonder Woman 6-4. No idea about Swamp Thing and new DLC's like Manta and Raiden.
- I would make a claim that GL loses to Starfire 4-6. He might as well lose to Cyborg but I have too little experience in that MU to be really confident.
- Not so sure about Harley either. Harley has an edge due to her superior zoning and meterless damage but in overall I don't think it's that bad to call it losing matchup. But it might be close, though.

I think it's worth to add some top players opinion I heard during some streams. Both Theo and Gross agrees that GL vs Superman is 4-6. Also both Gross and F0xy claimed that GL vs Deadshot is 5-5.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
? I actually see Arrow players say she beats him lol.
For the short time that I was in the ww discord all I ever heard whenever arrow was brought up was how dumb he is and how hard of a mu it was.

And tbh I bought it and agreed that she did lose. Then I'm just like "Why I'm I even saying that? I've never even played the mu against someone decent."

Mu could be even for all we know and both sides are just full of shit.
 
I think GL loses to batman and Superman 4-6, I think GL beats Swampthing 6-4, I also think GL beats Robin 6-4.

What's your thinking on Grodd being 5-5? I haven't played many Grodds and almost zero good grodds, so I'm not experienced enough to say, but on paper I'd think we win that matchup.

I also agree with you that Fate and Deadshot are our worst matchups for sure.
Definetly agree on most of them. If I would have to change some numbers you posted:
- I think GL wins with Wonder Woman 6-4. No idea about Swamp Thing and new DLC's like Manta and Raiden.
- I would make a claim that GL loses to Starfire 4-6. He might as well lose to Cyborg but I have too little experience in that MU to be really confident.
- Not so sure about Harley either. Harley has an edge due to her superior zoning and meterless damage but in overall I don't think it's that bad to call it losing matchup. But it might be close, though.

I think it's worth to add some top players opinion I heard during some streams. Both Theo and Gross agrees that GL vs Superman is 4-6. Also both Gross and F0xy claimed that GL vs Deadshot is 5-5.
Yeah I’d like to hear what high level GL’s think. My MU chart isn’t exactly the most credible, lol. Most of the losing MU’s I have are strictly personal. Harley gives me fits. I feel like I have a descent amount of experience with the MU so I’m most likely playing it wrong. My Grodd and Swampy numbers are from two really good players I came across online. Played a small set with both and went even. Again not the most credible list but it’s good to have some GL discussion,
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
For the short time that I was in the ww discord all I ever heard whenever arrow was brought up was how dumb he is and how hard of a mu it was.

And tbh I bought it and agreed that she did lose. Then I'm just like "Why I'm I even saying that? I've never even played the mu against someone decent."

Mu could be even for all we know and both sides are just full of shit.
I think it's even, not sure how she wins but I definitely don't think he beats her at all