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Question Tier List discussion for non-elite players?

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
I thought someone should post a Tier List for "casual" level players, lol. That would be funny to see. We all know who the best High-caliber Tournament level characters are when in the right hands BUT what about intermediate to advanced level casuals who would have a completely different tier list due to lack of in-depth knowledge (or skill level) to take advantage of frame rates, hit boxes, resets, or other misc. super intricacies that make non-elite players look at tier lists and see characters like Skarlet, Kabal, Kung Lao, Cyrax, Sonya, Freddy, Smoke, etc. being among the highest and they scratch their heads in disbelief until they watch videos of tournament-level players in action and are just blown away (I have witnessed this first hand). Most "normal" players don't have the skills to make Kabal, Kung Lao, or Skarlet (for a few examples) the true powerhouses they are. They just attempt to spam or fail, lol.

On the other hand characters like my main Scorpion in the hands of someone who is like me (MAYBE a 3.5 out of 5 level player TOPS I dunno I don't get to play enough good competition to see how I realistically stack up) vs anyone around or lower than my skill level and I DESTROY them with my excellent reading ability using Scorpion. They know they can block and they sometimes get lucky and knock him out of his incredibly unsafe teleport punch but while he's still really really unsafe it counts for less when they can't do resets or 50+% damage combos while Scorpion has EASY combos that can do 30-40% without any real effort, everything but his most advanced stuff (mainly "the void" as landing a F4,3~Spear juggle off a combo is something I rarely see a casual be capable of) is at a skill level most advanced but not quite expert players can manage, can be done anywhere on screen and with multiple starters. Oh and vortex owns newbs, lol. SO that is the example of a character who sucks pretty bad at high level play but might be A tier or better IN GENERAL when looking at how they are in the Mediocre to Advanced level player circles.

I suppose my point is that if we strip away the super advanced stuff and the putting them in the right hands, etc. HOW good are the characters IN GENERAL rather than just when played by the best of the best? Just wondered if anyone else had any ideas on this??
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
LOL Axel_Redd I know it sounds funny to say but casuals without the benefit of in-depth knowledge have more problems with some characters like Scorp, Sub, Sheeva, and even Kano (I've stomped people with him before with relentless and well used variance in his rolls, knives, etc.). While characters like Kabal, Skarlet, and Cyrax suddenly become complete and easy to read/exploit rubbish. Sad but True.

I wouldn't go Top Tier for Kano OR Sheeva, lol, but perhaps higher than Fail tier.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
S+ Scorpion, quan chi, Mileena, Noob
S Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Kano, Reptile
A+ Sindel, Cage, Raiden, Smoke, Kenshi
A Cyrax, Sektor, Kitana, Sub Zero, Stryker, Jax
B Kabal, Sheeva, Sonya, Cyber Sub, Baraka, Ermac
C Freddy, Rain, Skarlet, Nightwolf, jade
F- Kratos, Shang
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
@DJL Those your honest thoughts for an overall/in general Tier? I think it is a good start if it is, thank you for joining. I would place Kitana a little higher as her ability to Fan-Spam f's up less experienced players BAD, lol. I'm curious to hear your genuine thoughts on certain placements you've chosen and what makes the difference so big between "Elite" and "In general" whenever you have the time and or interest.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
are u kidding? lol kratos is like S tier with that parry among casual players lol.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
man i had a full response typed and then my computer died.
this list is basically a day one list. the characters on top are cheap, the ones on bottom are slow and bad
 
S+ Scorpion, quan chi, Mileena, Noob
S Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Kano, Reptile
A+ Sindel, Cage, Raiden, Smoke, Kenshi
A Cyrax, Sektor, Kitana, Sub Zero, Stryker, Jax
B Kabal, Sheeva, Sonya, Cyber Sub, Baraka, Ermac
C Freddy, Rain, Skarlet, Nightwolf, jade
F- Kratos, Shang
I think Kabal needs to be lower on this Tier-List, his execution is kind of difficult.

Stick him somewhere around F-.

Everything else looks good.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
"I have recently finished mastering Shang Tsung, Stryker, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Jax, Skarlet, and Johnny Cage."

Who tha fuck is this guy?
I play skarlet since last february, i know her from inside out but i definitely didn't finished mastering her, how the fuck did he mastered all these in less than 3 years?
Lol he's some troll. He thinks he's like the best player or whatever, and according to him, if we don't play how he wants or fall for his gimmicks, we suck. I have a video where I beat him 3-0 using just roll, and uppercut mainly, with Stryker.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Vlad's list was indeed pretty bad... seemed pretty much just based off of who he was personally good/bad with. Very random placements. I mean I wreck with Scorpion and I still wouldn't place him as overall S+ tier he's just WAY too unsafe. He's just got a pretty decent shot at winning against anybody on the roster (his worst MUs are like 3-7 last I heard) and I just know him inside and out AND I make really really good reads that help me beat the MU or I'm just simply better than the player I'm fighting against to the point where MU doesn't even matter, lol.

For the most part I believe it's the Player that is important not the "Tier" of the character although certainly some characters/playstyles lead to a change up in strategy and how you approach the fight. Some matchups require more aggression, some more caution, stay close vs this char but do your best to zone vs this char, etc. So I always find it interesting to read Tier Lists and Matchup charts to see what other players' opinions are on the various character vs character strategies but in the end its all about the Player and what character(s)/playstyle(s) they are most comfortable with. I also main Cage and Kitana who are (as far as Tier List is concerned) much much safer/better characters than Scorpion but he's still my best character because I've mained him ever since the first MK came out in arcades 20 years ago and he's one of the chars who's playstyle options have changed the least!!. For ME he is S+ for my own PERSONAL USE only Tier but my friends pick him up and are like "yeah he's definitely really fun but I have no idea how you manage to wreck me with him so bad. He has like "Street Fighter 2: Blanka-BAD" priority on all his moves (i.e. terrible and able to be out-prioritized by literally ANYTHING you do, lol). How do you manage to compensate for that so well." And I'm like "2o years of getting my ass handed to me for playing High Risk/High Reward characters?"

So in closing with some seriousness but even more amusement: Feel free to discuss opinions/ideas on a Tier List for non-elite badasses.
 
Noob Saibot is the Eddy Gordo of Mortal Kombat 9 within casual/non-serious players. Back in Tekken 3 where I would gather around with the other kids and we'd agree that no one picks Eddy, I know for a fact casuals would gather and mutually agree that no one picks Noob Saibot.

The XOXOXOXO mashing with Eddy Gordo is parallel with Noob Saibot's teleport and shadow spam. Therefore he's S+++++X2 tier.