This is Why Wake Up Buttons Are So Effective in MK11

[Zach_Numbers]

The player is invincible while rising from a knockdown and cannot be hit until fully standing.

Notice in the clip Kollector's F2 goes clean though Liu's body with no hit reaction while he is able to do S1.

There are already too many options available to the player who has been knocked down between up2, up3, front roll, back roll, short delay, long delay.

The talk of "you just need to time your meaties" is not reasonable.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So you want to be able to hit the player who’s been knocked down but is unable to attack yet?

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I wish this would work in my favor just once.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

All characters are completely invincible after being knocked down until a certain point in their rising. See Erron's amp slide, where he knocks you down and throws acid onto your position. You take no damage from the acid whatsoever for a few frames before you stand.

Wake up buttons exists in just about every game with a wake up system. It's a part of the guess. Delaying your wake up, rolling, or doing a wake up attack will make your opponent apprehensive about their meaty timing, or if they should meaty at all.

And to be clear, a) the invincibility doesn't last that long and wears off off by the time they attack you. Liu Kang is not invincible while pressing s1 in the clip. And b) most buttons in this game aren't active for more than 3 frames. It's really easy to mistime 3 frames.

 

[scarsunseen]

Kollector's F2 only has 2 active frames. It's quite hard to meaty with only 2 active frames. I don't play Kollector at all, but his F4 has 13 active frames and should be more ideal for meaties.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Why couldn’t they make roll a different button move? Why two buttons? I just can’t roll sometimes and continue eating pressure

 

[THTB]

Why couldn’t they make roll a different button move? Why two buttons? I just can’t roll sometimes and continue eating pressure

Why is the specific input an issue? I'd have seen the actual timing of the move, as well as the inability to hold the input to get the roll as more problematic than the actual input itself.

 

[OutworldKeith]

All characters are completely invincible after being knocked down until a certain point in their rising. See Erron's amp slide, where he knocks you down and throws acid onto your position. You take no damage from the acid whatsoever for a few frames before you stand.

Wake up buttons exists in just about every game with a wake up system. It's a part of the guess. Delaying your wake up, rolling, or doing a wake up attack will make your opponent apprehensive about their meaty timing, or if they should meaty at all.

And to be clear, a) the invincibility doesn't last that long and wears off off by the time they attack you. Liu Kang is not invincible while pressing s1 in the clip. And b) most buttons in this game aren't active for more than 3 frames. It's really easy to mistime 3 frames.

Meaty in this game is suicide lmao

 

[Dogeofthesea]

Back in Injustice 1 people mistimed wakeup stuff everywhere, including top 8 big tournaments (Doomsday's shoulder lol). It means you need to practice more and use better normals to meaty

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Why is the specific input an issue? I'd have seen the actual timing of the move, as well as the inability to hold the input to get the roll as more problematic than the actual input itself.

Yeah I agree! Why is there a timing in the first place? It costs two goddamn bars, it shouldn’t have specific window for the input. Why not make flawless block cost a bar if timing itself isn’t tricky enough?

 

[Wigy]

So you want to be able to hit the player who’s been knocked down but is unable to attack yet?

Personally I'd like about 3 frames were they cannot do anything aside from block just as they are getting to the top.

There is so many variables to how plus you will be on a knockdown then short and full delay, how are you meant to get any kind of consistent meaty with moves with like 2-3 active frames.

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

Wake up buttons is a legit tactic in mk11 unfortunately. There’s a bunch of invinciblity frames on wake up unfortunately, I forget the exact number and I don’t want to be wrong but it’s enough frames for Liu’ 12 and Noob’s F212 to be legitimate options off wake up.

 

[THTB]

Wake up buttons is a legit tactic in mk11 unfortunately. There’s a bunch of invinciblity frames on wake up unfortunately, I forget the exact number and I don’t want to be wrong but it’s enough frames for Liu’ 12 and Noob’s F212 to be legitimate options off wake up.

Wake up buttons has much less to do with the actual get up frames, and more to do with the abundance of strong wakeup mechanics and a general lack of active frames and slow strings controlling a lot about oki decisions. If you could not delay your wakeup and players had a generally consistent timing to meaty you on wakeup, pressing normals on wakeup would be far less powerful.

Most fighting games have invincibility frames as you get off the ground. That is normal. It's everything else that contributes to the power of wakeup defense.

 

[Vagrant]

Back in Injustice 1 people mistimed wakeup stuff everywhere, including top 8 big tournaments (Doomsday's shoulder lol). It means you need to practice more and use better normals to meaty

Yeah but the window was insane at release and they adjusted it a few months in.

 

[Zach_Numbers]

anyone catch this on kp tournament stream last night?

 

[MadPropz101]

Meaty in this game is suicide lmao

Unless you're Spawn

 

[OutworldKeith]

Unless you're Spawn

What does he have?

 

[Tony at Home]

There are no invincibility frames on getup where your opponent can attack and none of the "getup" frames exist outside of what's stated in the frame data's hit advantage ( the getup animation where your opponent cannot get hit only occurs during your knockdown hit advantage frames, not after)

Kitana's throw is +10 advantage. Throw your opponent into the corner and frame perfect meaty her 10 frame d4. If there were invincibility frames where the opponent could act or existed outside hit advantage then the d4 would whiff against those iframes.

 

[SHAOLIN]

There are no invincibility frames on getup where your opponent can attack and none of the "getup" frames exist outside of what's stated in the frame data's hit advantage ( the getup animation where your opponent cannot get hit only occurs during your knockdown hit advantage frames, not after)

Kitana's throw is +10 advantage. Throw your opponent into the corner and frame perfect meaty her 10 frame d4. If there were invincibility frames where the opponent could act or existed outside hit advantage then the d4 would whiff against those iframes.

Is this type of thread you was talking about yesterday?

 

[dribirut]

I actually think this is precisely one of the biggest problems with mk11. Pressing up should not essentially be a wake up. This is dumb and at the very best annoying as fuck

 

[dribirut]

The meaty window is too unforgiving

 

[Sage Leviathan]

anyone catch this on kp tournament stream last night?

Sindel's b2 is active for 2f (two frames). She mistimed her meaty.

 

[DeftMonk]

This is kinda like the issue with d1 for some characters having very low plus frames. Some moves have hella active frames and obviously much easier to meaty. These moves usually lead to jack all tho or arent hit confirmable. If you want to meaty something useful it probably has 2 active frames and is reallly really hard to time imo. 2f links in something like street fighter are hard but theres a rhythm to it so when you get used to that rhythm it becomes easier. Nailing 2f opening out of the blue isnt as easy.

 

[Tony at Home]

Is this type of thread you was talking about yesterday?

Yup

Wakeup Animation GIF by tonyathome | Gfycat

Watch and share Wakeup Animation GIFs by tonyathome on Gfycat

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getup animations that play over knockdown frames are pretty much a thing in most fighters, and yet here it becomes this oddly alien thing because the world outside NRS fighters doesn't exist to people

 

[MadPropz101]

What does he have?

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