General/Other - Takeda The Problem With Takeda.

[MrProfDrPepper]

Ok that's a good point actually but that is on read. So you can continue the string to beat that option, AND you can actually uppercut them still after they jump kunai

we figured that out as well but then it becomes a guessing game for both players. just an extra thing to be cautious about

 

[ZigZag]

I'm going to stick my neck out and defend Zyphox this once there are some things he could do with, honestly if his down 3 was a few frames quicker on startup i'd be Happy enough with even just that, just give me a little wiggle room... I know i'm not supposed to be real good up close because my long range game is so good, but it pretty much is a fact that if Takeda is cornered he is 100% screwed, his only half usable wakeup is pretty damn baitable and easy to read and he just has no wiggle room when it comes to jabs, he has the slowest jabs among the roster yet people tell us to level up and shit.

If it was Kung Jin in this position they'd cry to, but it happens to our community and people don't understand it when it happens to others, they always are out to look for ways to blame the player, it's not always the player... like people have seen Zyphox does play extremely well and get's top results, but the characters holds you back a little, now you take two evenly skilled people, one using a character with great priority and good wakeups with decent range (cough Kung jin) against another player once again at the same level of play, and the other is using Takeda and you tell me that character has nothing to do with it.

So when people were getting schooled by Kabal and Cyrax and shit that was just good players right? like they could have done that with Sub Zero and a blindfold right? get real! this community is all about oppressing what doesn't suit them and doesn't think yeah that character isn't mine but maybe they do need a small buff just to help out a little, because Takeda is not well rounded, he's VERY good long range, VERY bad close range, most other people who complain their character sucks... well those characters are average at both... not god awful at one or the other, they have wiggle room, Takeda does NOT.

SO in conclusion to my massive rant if you read it, I agree with Zyphox in some ways, I don't ask for a whole lot personally but I do ask for something.

TL;DR Fuck you, stop crying about crying where crying is due, now go back to the lab and leave our forum alone you frauds

 

[Zyphox]

I'm a Takeda main. You exaggerate his weaknesses. A lot of the characters you've mentioned who can armor through kunai don't get that much out of it. They don't have unlimited meter to spend. You spend too much time in theory about what can be blocked. Last time I checked good players get hit by things they could have reacted to because they were under a lot of pressure from other offensive threats. Take Glacius's shatter for example.
You're leaving out the long range footsies game you can play, and how much you can do when you're opponent has chosen to sit there and block.

You're just looking for some hidden tech that will magically make you better instead getting better with the character and using footsies and making reads to succeed.

have you seen me play the character? if not then what makes you assume what you are saying is correct?

 

[Zyphox]

I'm going to stick my neck out and defend Zyphox this once there are some things he could do with, honestly if his down 3 was a few frames quicker on startup i'd be Happy enough with even just that, just give me a little wiggle room... I know i'm not supposed to be real good up close because my long range game is so good, but it pretty much is a fact that if Takeda is cornered he is 100% screwed, his only half usable wakeup is pretty damn baitable and easy to read and he just has no wiggle room when it comes to jabs, he has the slowest jabs among the roster yet people tell us to level up and shit.

If it was Kung Jin in this position they'd cry to, but it happens to our community and people don't understand it when it happens to others, they always are out to look for ways to blame the player, it's not always the player... like people have seen Zyphox does play extremely well and get's top results, but the characters holds you back a little, now you take two evenly skilled people, one using a character with great priority and good wakeups with decent range (cough Kung jin) against another player once again at the same level of play, and the other is using Takeda and you tell me that character has nothing to do with it.

So when people were getting schooled by Kabal and Cyrax and shit that was just good players right? like they could have done that with Sub Zero and a blindfold right? get real! this community is all about oppressing what doesn't suit them and doesn't think yeah that character isn't mine but maybe they do need a small buff just to help out a little, because Takeda is not well rounded, he's VERY good long range, VERY bad close range, most other people who complain their character sucks... well those characters are average at both... not god awful at one or the other, they have wiggle room, Takeda does NOT.

SO in conclusion to my massive rant if you read it, I agree with Zyphox in some ways, I don't ask for a whole lot personally but I do ask for something.

TL;DR Fuck you, stop crying about crying where crying is due, now go back to the lab and leave our forum alone you frauds

i appreciate it man, and on top of all that you said his range is punishable and easy to get around, block one move and your in?? lol wut?

 

[snort]

Way to early to be crying about chars.

 

[ZigZag]

i appreciate it man, and on top of all that you said his range is punishable and easy to get around, block one move and your in?? lol wut?

Well yeah there's that plus alot of advancing armour, anyone with a brain could argue that Takeda struggles.

 

[SaJa]

@Zyphox : what buffs would you like ? I'm scared to see him OP if he's buff because his tools look great, so if there is no more weaknesses (his main weakness will cost 1 meter for the opponent, just like SZ clones, Brady video*) it may be a bad deal.

Many characters are worse than Takeda, they would be the priority to me. Also, some variation need to be more usefull in this game. Maybe buffing the Takeda's worse variation would be a good deal ?

 

[haketh]

i appreciate it man, and on top of all that you said his range is punishable and easy to get around, block one move and your in?? lol wut?

Curious, why not use Lasher & Ronin more? Apologies if you already are but I've felt like Shirai Ryu has to many holes & inconsistencies compared to the other two. Curious about why it's superior to those two, especially with Lasher having a much better armor move on defense than Shirai Ryu.

 

[FiercePhil56]

i appreciate it man, and on top of all that you said his range is punishable and easy to get around, block one move and your in?? lol wut?

If I can block reptiles reversal ex slide after all those whip strings into tp cancel, how exactly are you just in after a blocked move?

 

[Shark Tank]

So are half the casts

✓

 

[LucaTheRipper]

The game hasn't even been out long enough for the term "main" to mean anything.

Please stop filling this community with your bile. Every post of yours in this thread Is detrimental to the intelligence of anyone who reads them

Are you dictating what everyone can or not post? No one can discuss or talk about something now?

 

[Amelificent]

Way to early to be crying about chars.

Yea no. Objective analysis is crying. Please tell me who you main so i can drive by post saying absolutely nothing of value.

 

[snort]

Yea no. Objective analysis is crying. Please tell me who you main so i can drive by post saying absolutely nothing of value.

Sinestro.

 

[Amelificent]

Sinestro.

Nightwing.

 

[exflyingbooty]

I have a question for the op because i kind of glanced over takeda's moves in lasher and just read the first page cause i'm lazy to go through ten pages. If you know they're going to armor through why don't you do the special whip low? It's double hitting and does knockdown. Yes, you're hella negative after but if you got a read on your opponent who mashes armor wouldn't that be pretty good?

 

[Duck Nation]

@Zyphox Just going to throw this out here: Nobody is listening to you because everything you've been saying about this character comes off so insanely kneejerk and reactionary. You're a good player, but you've come at this repeatedly from such a ridiculous angle that nobody is interested in listening.

 

[Zyphox]

@Zyphox : what buffs would you like ? I'm scared to see him OP if he's buff because his tools look great, so if there is no more weaknesses (his main weakness will cost 1 meter for the opponent, just like SZ clones, Brady video*) it may be a bad deal.

Many characters are worse than Takeda, they would be the priority to me. Also, some variation need to be more usefull in this game. Maybe buffing the Takeda's worse variation would be a good deal ?

for buffs either make kunai faster or make it so b21 kunai jails, 7 frame d1 and better backwalk backdash, i honestly dont know if those changes would make him OP, but my guess is it wont really change too much. he will still suffer up close but atleast he has a faster d1 to interrupt pressure and he doesn't have a glaring hole you can just armor through. also his special moves are hella unsafe and are super risky but i think they are okay if he is given faster normals and jailing on b21 kunai.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Firstly I'm not disagreeing with you. I just have a straight-up question: [Hypothetically] If Tak is easy to get in on AND has little/no wakeup options then does that prove a heavy burden in a set play heavy game such as this?

Extremely..

 

[GuerillaTactix]

I love the fact that no takeda main is arguing with what I said, it's all the people who don't know the struggle that want to say stupid shit. My intention for this thread was to expose a weakness in his fundamental design, hoping that it may be fix and make the character viable. Instead I got a bunch of people who have never used takeda telling me he is fine when they know less then John snow on the situation. One more time people, why is my character so shit up close when it's so easy to get in on him? Because we have to have a low tier character right? Every fighting game just has to have characters with fundamental flaws so badly that it makes the user of the character go insane.

I think it says something when a community doesn't have a single up-player among them. Theres always that one guy that says the others suck and he doesn't have those problems yada-yada. Where's he at so we can dick stomp him to the curb? lol!

The game hasn't even been out long enough for the term "main" to mean anything.

Please stop filling this community with your bile. Every post of yours in this thread Is detrimental to the intelligence of anyone who reads them

Look! Another "The game hasn't been out long enough guy." If you're not going to share more than the games official release date with us we'd like to get back to using video tutorials and group discussion to check months of practice against Takeda off your list of to dos. From here on out people are going to form their own strategies using what @Zyphox has shown them to beat us.. Is that going to take six months? A year? I was facing people who figured out how to armor through "safe" kunai pressure week one..

Can we collectively get past this whole, games only been out three weeks crap? Can we not all agree the practice mode in this game lets us level up and discuss strengths and weaknesses, explore MUs and strategies, faster than ever before? Some of us need to shake this "1989 back in the day I had to spend quarters to level up attitude" and accept that we know the game hasn't been out long.. At the end of the day if a move can be armored through that's supposed to make our pressure safe, we've got no wake ups, and the slowest normals in the game, no amount of time is going to change the fact that the character is flawed. If anything, more time is going to help you guys kick Takeda's dick in the dirt to the point most of us quit this character and let him rot as a low tier piece of crap.

We love this character and don't want to see it happen. Absorb this knowledge, use it to your advantage and you'll agree. This character needs buffs. /rant

 

[Zyphox]

I think it says something when a community doesn't have a single up-player among them. Theres always that one guy that says the others suck and he doesn't have those problems yada-yada. Where's he at so we can dick stomp him to the curb? lol!


Look! Another "The game hasn't been out long enough guy." If you're not going to share more than the games official release date with us we'd like to get back to using video tutorials and group discussion to check months of practice against Takeda off your list of to dos. From here on out people are going to form their own strategies using what @Zyphox has shown them to beat us.. Is that going to take six months? A year? I was facing people who figured out how to armor through "safe" kunai pressure week one..

Can we collectively get past this whole, games only been out three weeks crap? Can we not all agree the practice mode in this game lets us level up and discuss strengths and weaknesses, explore MUs and strategies, faster than ever before? Some of us need to shake this "1989 back in the day I had to spend quarters to level up attitude" and accept that we know the game hasn't been out long.. At the end of the day if a move can be armored through that's supposed to make our pressure safe, we've got no wake ups, and the slowest normals in the game, no amount of time is going to change the fact that the character is flawed. If anything, more time is going to help you guys kick Takeda's dick in the dirt to the point most of us quit this character and let him rot as a low tier piece of crap.

We love this character and don't want to see it happen. Absorb this knowledge, use it to your advantage and you'll agree. This character needs buffs. /rant

well fucking said!! thats what i've been saying, it doesn't take months to figure out that shirai ryu variation is flawed.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Curious, why not use Lasher & Ronin more? Apologies if you already are but I've felt like Shirai Ryu has to many holes & inconsistencies compared to the other two. Curious about why it's superior to those two, especially with Lasher having a much better armor move on defense than Shirai Ryu.

This is honestly a good question. The short answer is Shirai Ryu justs feels like the better of the three the same way Grandmaster feels the same for SZ.

To go deeper into that though, Ronin has a weird glitch in it where depending on what stance you're in (L2) his blade call will let you follow up with an attack to add a little damage or the combo will be dropped. It's very inconsistent. He's got the same slow normals, less range, far less damage, a slow reflect, no teleport, and on block, blade kall sometimes hits only once instead of twice making the block stun go from -8 to -14. Someone who uses Ronin needs to fact check me and I'll edit this post if I'm wrong but this is what I gathered the last time I was in that forum.

Lasher suffers from slow normals and a low damage threshold as well. In theory the anti air whip (DF1) is really good but it can't be comboed off of which sucks and his b21xx kunai pressure can be armored though same as Shirai Ryu. @exflyingbooty brings up a good point that the low whip trip could hit twice and catch an opponent trying to armor through the kunai but it's really neg on block. TBH I haven't tested that out much but I'm sure that it won't make up for some of the things he loses from Shirai Ryu like teleport or air spear.. I think most Takeda's would agree Shirai Ryu feels like his go to variation with a few saying Ronin feels like its got the most potential. I get the feeling the guys using Ronin have godlike execution though considering the way Takeda is facing the camera dictates whether or not a BNB ends up being 21 or 27%.. I'll defer to someone else cuz I only check the Ronin threads every so often. I think they've been making some head way though.

If I could think of one change to Lasher I'd make the whip spin similar to NWs staffspin so a true 50/50 could be established. I'd even sacrifice the range on his b21 for something like that.

 

[LEGEND]

Are you dictating what everyone can or not post? No one can discuss or talk about something now?

Your response makes absolutely no sense

 

[GuerillaTactix]

well fucking said!! thats what i've been saying, it doesn't take months to figure out that shirai ryu variation is flawed.

It doesn't take long at all to realize that his weaknesses are too fundamental for some miraculous tech to fix. We've got alot of people looking and noone's even close to providing any solutions.

 

[haketh]

This is honestly a good question. The short answer is Shirai Ryu justs feels like the better of the three the same way Grandmaster feels the same for SZ.

To go deeper into that though, Ronin has a weird glitch in it where depending on what stance you're in (L2) his blade call will let you follow up with an attack to add a little damage or the combo will be dropped. It's very inconsistent. He's got the same slow normals, less range, far less damage, a slow reflect, no teleport, and on block, blade kall sometimes hits only once instead of twice making the block stun go from -8 to -14. Someone who uses Ronin needs to fact check me and I'll edit this post if I'm wrong but this is what I gathered the last time I was in that forum.

Lasher suffers from slow normals and a low damage threshold as well. In theory the anti air whip (DF1) is really good but it can't be comboed off of which sucks and his b21xx kunai pressure can be armored though same as Shirai Ryu. @exflyingbooty brings up a good point that the low whip trip could hit twice and catch an opponent trying to armor through the kunai but it's really neg on block. TBH I haven't tested that out much but I'm sure that it won't make up for some of the things he loses from Shirai Ryu like teleport or air spear.. I think most Takeda's would agree Shirai Ryu feels like his go to variation with a few saying Ronin feels like its got the most potential. I get the feeling the guys using Ronin have godlike execution though considering the way Takeda is facing the camera dictates whether or not a BNB ends up being 21 or 27%.. I'll defer to someone else cuz I only check the Ronin threads every so often. I think they've been making some head way though.

If I could think of one change to Lasher I'd make the whip spin similar to NWs staffspin so a true 50/50 could be established. I'd even sacrifice the range on his b21 for something like that.

I dunno, I do think Takeda has probs that need to be looked at, but granting him a 50/50 from Whip Spin doesn't seem like the way to push the character & have him keep his niche. Also on the low whip thing that's a big part of making reads & making thaat read a few times will make people respect the B21 Kunai mixup and if you get the read they won't always have meter, on that same note could EX Flurry work? That way if you read the armor you get a combo off of it afterwards?

I dunno, I just think the variation system isn't being used nearly enough to explore and play out MUs. People are to hooked on what seem like the premier variations.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

I dunno, I do think Takeda has probs that need to be looked at, but granting him a 50/50 from Whip Spin doesn't seem like the way to push the character & have him keep his niche. Also on the low whip thing that's a big part of making reads & making thaat read a few times will make people respect the B21 Kunai mixup and if you get the read they won't always have meter, on that same note could EX Flurry work? That way if you read the armor you get a combo off of it afterwards?

I dunno, I just think the variation system isn't being used nearly enough to explore and play out MUs. People are to hooked on what seem like the premier variations.

I get that that a change like that to lasher would change his niche but isn't that honestly what the variation system should be for? Right now his three variations seem similar in they all have slow normals and nothing plus on block enough to set them up. Do you get what I mean? If he could establish a good amount of block advantage to make his b21 or b3 come out so that he had a true 50/50 that would honestly give him an answer to the characters that knock him down and shit in his mouth on wakeup. At the same time a change like that could easily be broken and I don't want that either.