The Practicality of Throw Escapes

[GamerBlake90]

Something I've been thinking about for a while that I just needed to jot down. The topic concerns a general concept that sort of varies through every fighter...namely, a player's consistency in escaping throws as soon as they are grabbed by the opponent.

I know there are some players who have developed an impressive ability to tech quite a lot of throws, many of which come from Street Fighter, if I'm not mistaken. But the question is, how does one achieve such a consistency?

Before you go and say, "Just practice, bro," obviously that's the thing to do, but at least consider these two factors:

1. From my experience playing NRS fighters, throws tend to be at ten frames, though I'm sure that's different with the non-NRS fighters (correct me if I'm wrong). If I read enough frame data topics, you will not be fuzzy-guarding any move that is less than twenty frames, at the very least. That therefore stands to reason that you can't react to throws since I have yet to see one that is more than twenty frames. Do note that there are things about frame data I'm still trying to figure out, such as cancel advantage, so don't consider me an expert on the subject.

2. Smart players tend to sneak throws into their offense once they have conditioned you to respect their pressure game, meaning you will be blocking a lot, and throws will discourage you from blocking. So if you're busy trying to maintain a strong defense, you likely won't be ready to react to a throw when the opponent goes for it. If you start trying to anticipate a throw, you have to risk letting go of block, which can cause your defense to slip and put you in danger of eating a combo, particularly if the opponent is good with hit-confirming their shit. Welcome to a world of guessing games.

Now, I could be misinformed on some parts of my post, but then, that's why I come to those who are experts on the subject...to get these facts straight. I know it may be possible to tech throws consistently, I just wonder about what those who practice this ability look for in order to find this consistency. Throws tend to be a growing pain in fighting games as they are a punishment inflicted to those who hesitate for too long in the midst of a match.

Your thoughts, TYM? Discuss with civility and productivity.

 

[RYX]

injustice throws have the camera angle switch that makes it kind of easy to tech them, besides from the generous window of opportunity

in games with faster throws people are teching it on read

 

[xInfra Deadx]

injustice throws have the camera angle switch that makes it kind of easy to tech them, besides from the generous window of opportunity

in games with faster throws people are teching it on read

Does not apply to MMH.

 

[rev0lver]

A throw being 10f doesn't mean you have to tech it on the 11th frame. I don't know exactly how many frames it is but there's a good window to tech it. It just takes time getting used to reacting to those animations. Even with Cyrax's command grab which was probably harder to tech than throws in IGAU you could do on reaction.

Raven's throw might be a problem though haha. Idk how you're supposed to see that

 

[ABACABB]

I think the most important thing is to know characters throw setups , for example doomsday can do d1 throw , mb venom throw.... so you need to be ready when u see it .

 

[xInfra Deadx]

People are still not expecting grabs after they get hit w/Ares' D1.

 

[ryublaze]

Kind of off topic but can we get a thread about fuzzy guarding? I would like to know the amount of frames it takes to be able to react to something or not and how much of a frame difference it takes to fuzzy guard something, and also if reacting to stuff is harder in Injustice because of the smaller characters on screen.

 

[godlessmode]

Kind of off topic but can we get a thread about fuzzy guarding? I would like to know the amount of frames it takes to be able to react to something or not and how much of a frame difference it takes to fuzzy guard something, and also if reacting to stuff is harder in Injustice because of the smaller characters on screen.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

Average human reaction is 215ms according to the data gathered by this test.

215ms = ~12 frames

What that means is that most people will be able to react to a given visual stimuli within 12 frames. Because of the way reactions work the size should be irrelevant as long as the visual stimuli is beyond the change perception threshold (people only notice change beyond a certain point).

Fuzzyguarding on reaction thus would require a ~12 frame window.

Fuzzyguarding on muscle memory (like Doomsdays earthshaker fuzzy guard) could be as tight as a 1 frame link and still be viable given enough time/practice blocking it.

Also much like boxing and other combat sports, many players will have very very small tells which will hint at what they are about to do, this allows top level players to "react" to things that are otherwise arguably not possible to react to in that they are actually reacting to an event that happens milliseconds before the throw, low, overhead, whatever. This is usually what is happening when players say X is reactable when X is far too fast to be reacted to in a live environment (KF 50/50s for example).


Also, as I think was mentioned elsewhere in the thread - just because a throw has a startup of 10 frames doesn't mean the break window is 10 frames. Most games allow throw breaks during some portion of the active frames.

 

[Lord Hollow]

Discuss with civility and productivity.

You're not the boss of me...

 

[GamerBlake90]

You're not the boss of me...

Buddy, I think I am.

Thanks to everyone submitting very informative posts.

 

[ForeverKing]

I can tech throws on reaction for the most part in Injustice. Online it's hard but offline I'd say I tech about 80% of throw attempts

MK9 you could not tech throws on reaction. They give you a much smaller window, you had to KNOW that they were gonna grab you in order to tech

 

[coolwhip]

I like the tech throw system in Injustice since unlike MK9, there aren't any accidental mashing techs. I wasn't good at teching throws at all in MK9 unless it's on a read, but I find it relatively easy to do it on reaction in Injustice, especially due to the change in camera angle.

 

[miloPKL]

sf and injustice tech are very similar imo. tekken too. play sf if you wanna increase your tech skill. its not hard when you understand the meta of throwing.

 

[miloPKL]

mk throw system was fucked. like you couldnt block AND tech, one reason the attacker had a big advantage

 

[THTB]

IGAU's tech window is insanely large. Larger than MK9's for sure. I think someone said it was like 20. It helps that the camera pans, too.

It's very easy to tech, actually...I can't tech worth shit in Tekken (I often just press the wrong button lol), but IGAU, I only really get thrown by players that really sneak in their throws.

It pretty much is practice. King went from being easily thrown to being able to tech pretty consistently.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Ten frames is something you can react to with practice, but even up to a high level its not something you will react to if you are not looking for it. Knowing when someone CAN throw is probably the most important thing in teching throws. If you try to bank on being able to react to a throw inside pressure then you will get thrown man, you gotta be looking for it.

There are some things you can do to make your reaction speed quicker though. A good example that works best on pad is making your throw button the button you use to tech roll. You will build up muscle memory for that button and your finger will always be on it when you are not being offensive.

 

[Nonameformedude]

mk throw system was fucked. like you couldnt block AND tech, one reason the attacker had a big advantage

I dont think thats fucked, you cant block AND tech in skullgirls either. It adds another level of difficulty and depth that some("I")enjoy .

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I tech throws in injustice mostly on reaction. It's harder to tech tick throws, so u kinda have to guess its coming. Mk9 throw system was fricken retarded. Same with umvc3 u have like 4 frames to tech a throw and if not, dead character.

Injustice is prolly the easiest game to tech on reaction, besides 3d fighters like SCV and tekken. Although tekken throw techs are more knowledge based I believe, rather than reactionary.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I was awful at teching throws when the game came out. Probably a 10 percent clip.

Im up to 50 percent now. I improved by two simple things:

1) I constantly have my finger resting on the throw button
2) im always thinking about it when im in someones pressure.

These two things have helped a lot. I think I get better every day.

The only problem I have is raven. Her throw is so hard to see.

 

[miloPKL]

I dont think thats fucked, you cant block AND tech in skullgirls either. It adds another level of difficulty and depth that some("I")enjoy .

but its not any more difficult to tech throws. you just get punished much harder for guessing wrong.

 

[RM Truth]

I myself such at throw teching, but from my experience in other fighters, throw teching is definitely easier in this game. Trying to react to SF throws is incredibly difficult, and most of the times its done through crouching OS. Guilty Gear throws might as well be untechable as they all start up in 1 frame, and I don't believe there is an OS for them. You essentially have to tech them on a read.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Where I had a long term playing Tekken, my throw breaking in MK and Injustice became pretty consistent.

But Tekken and Injustice are the only 2 games I know enough about to talk about throw breaking. MK was similar, but there was also the factor of guessing 5050, and not blocking as well, may aswell have just mashed a launcher.

 

[RM Truth]

Where I had a long term playing Tekken, my throw breaking in MK and Injustice became pretty consistent.

If I'm not mistaken, each type of throw has a tell of which one it was so you knew how to tech if you reacted fast enough correct?

 

[Skkra]

Can't you just option select throw tech in this game the same way you do in SF4? A opponent is in your grill, and as they start an attack, you press 1+3. Since you're in blockstun, nothing happens. However, if they performed a throw, you'll tech. I don't play IGAU much (hour/week max) but I'm pretty sure I've managed to do this a bunch when I do play.

 

[Skkra]

If I'm not mistaken, each type of throw has a tell of which one it was so you knew how to tech if you reacted fast enough correct?

Correct. In Tekken, the animations of their limbs show you which throw break to use; 1, 2, or 1+2. You still need good reactions but it's very, very doable. Tekken was my first love in fighting games, starting way back in Tekken 3, and you definitely develop a reactionary instinct for throw breaks where you don't even have to think anymore, it just happens.

Watch someone like Anakin play... he's basically unthrowable.