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The Noob Saibot Revised Meter Game Theory

Altaire

Warrior
NOTE: This entire topic will be presented in Trebuchet MS font because the default font on this forum looks fucking hideous.
THE NOOB SAIBOT REVISED METER GAME THEORY: A STUDY INTO METER USE WITH NOOB SAIBOT
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Chapter 0 of 1
WHO THE FUCK IS ALTAIRE?
Alright, so as many of you probably know, I am a prolific Noob Saibot player.

...Actually, come to think, pretty much no one knows that. In fact, if I pick Noob, I always get some dumbfounded reaction like "WHY U NO PICK CYBER SUB BRO" or "WAIT, I THOUGHT ONLY BLACK DUDES PLAYED NOOB SAIBOT". Nevertheless, I have played Noob for a very, very long time. He's been a reliable secondary character for most of my time spent playing this game, and I've put a great deal of time into developing him. He was actually one of the first characters I picked up; I think the order of play was something like Ermac -> Cyber Sub -> Sub -> Cyrax -> Sektor (who I immediately hated, and didn't take a liking to until a couple months later) -> Noob. I initially picked him up because I saw some potential to play him as a rushdown character, and as I love the challenge of going against the grain, I decided to try and play an offensive Noob Saibot. At that point in time, my approach to fighting games was also "RUSHDOWN RUSHDOWN RUSHDOWN BAW BAW BJAWWWW", so naturally, I had no interest in his zoning ability.

Of course, as the game evolved, Noob's offense became less and less viable; the fundamental style of play improved, and Noob's offense just didn't hold up as well anymore. I do think it's better than most Noob players seem to think and it's still an essential element of Noob's playstyle, because there are plenty of situations where zoning just isn't an option, but he just can't be played as a proprietary rushdown character in high level play. I'd come to take a liking to his zoning anyhow, so I stuck with him nonetheless, and I'm really glad I did. I went on to play him in tournament at Canada Cup; I decided to main Cyber Sub, sub Noob for his bad matchups, and keep Sektor in the pocket. I beat Neo Russell's Kitana 2-0 with Noob in my first match, and eventually used him against Shujinkydink's Quan Chi in losers just before top 8 (despite what everyone will tell you about Cyber Sub vs. Quan Chi, I just wasn't comfortable in that matchup from my very limited experience). Of course, my Noob got bodied because I was such a nervous fucking wreck I wasn't even fuzzy guarding his strings, so I went to Sektor. I won the second set in a close game, then lost the third set due to a dropped combo: I did EX telepunch, missed my jumpkick, panicked and tried crossing him up on wakeup. He uppercutted me, and I felt really stupid for the rest of the day. Again, nervous fucking wreck, considering it was losers' finals and I had almost no experience playing Quan. Regardless, that about covers my experience playing Quan in tournament, outside of a money match with Russell again the next day (I won 3-1). I will continue to use him in tournament at Powerup or Flawless Victory; I have that week booked off work for certain, but I haven't decided which one I'm going to yet.

/walloftext, but hey, I figured those of you who had no fucking clue that I play Noob might like to know what I'm about and why I'm making this topic.


Chapter 1 of 1
THE ACTUAL TOPIC


Alright, so that's out of the way. Basically, the purpose of this topic is to explore new ways to utilize Noob's Saibot meter, with the goal being an increase in overall damage while maintaining efficiency. Please keep in mind that most of these concepts are still theoretical: I cannot guarantee that they will prove to be effective at the highest level of play; I'm merely using this topic to communicate my ideas. It is up to you, as the players, to test them.

The basis for this project actually came from a common practice used by Sektor players: As soon as they build three bars, they'll burn one on a homing missile. The idea is that if Sektor is zoning effectively, he'll be steadily gaining meter. By holding on to a full three bars, Sektor is "wasting" any meter gain, in a sense. As long as he has two bars, he still has access to a breaker (as well as meter for his BnB combos), so many Sektor players consider it acceptable to spend one bar once his meter is full. As a Sektor player myself, this crossed my mind recently, and I thought "wait, why can't Noob do the same?" Most Noob players could tell you that you won't go a single round without quite a few projectles being blocked, and the meter gain for these is phenomenal. It takes seven blocked tackles or slides to build one meter, and eight blocked upshadows (I wouldn't count on too many naked upshadows being blocked, but this is still good to know). Even when the projectiles aren't blocked, it takes 17 tackles to build one bar, as well as 17 slides. Unfortunately, it takes a whopping 27 upshadows to build one bar, but a good Noob player isn't going to be throwing out too many of these against an opponent who knows what he's doing.

Noob also has great meter gain with all of his principle blockstrings. 2 1 2 upshadow builds roughly 1/3 of a bar. B1 2 1 4 upshadow builds just shy of half a bar (two in a row builds just a sliver short of one bar) and B2 1 4 builds just over 3/8, though these are only possible in the corner. B1 2 1 4 tackle builds 1/2 of a bar, and B2 1 4 tackle builds just over 3/8 as well. The pushback on both strings makes the tackle relatively safe, but even if you want to be thoroughly cautious, you can use B1 2 1 upshadow or B2 1 upshadow instead. These are also great choices if you just don't want to be at disadvantage after ending in a tackle, and it's also an option if you want to go into the upshadow/grab mixup (or if you just want the block advantage for its own sake).

With all of this in mind, it's not hard to tell that Noob can build meter fairly well when he's in his element, so like Sektor, his meter gain is going to waste as soon as he decides to sit on three bars. Unfortunately, the solution isn't as simple for Noob as it is for Sektor: Whereas Sektor can use a homing missile in almost any situation for a free attack/grab mixup (among other possible uses), Noob doesn't have access to a reliable, general-purpose EX special. Of course, if we could find a good reason to spend one meter as soon as we get a full bar, we'd easily be able to capitalize on this concept, just as Sektor does.

So... How the hell are we supposed to do that, exactly?

Well, here are some ideas I've come up with, to start:


EX Upshadow Anti-Air


So far, I consider this to be the most viable option proposed by this project. In any situation where you could anti-air on reaction with upshadow, you could do EX upshadow into teleslam for 18% unbreakable damage. I'm sure some people will say "ONE BAR FOR AN 18% COMBO?! THAT'S DUMB! YOU'RE DUMB! I'M GONNA GO PLAY KENSHI HE MAKES ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT MYSELF!" Cut that shit out for a minute, and use your head. Have you ever been hit by Jax's EX dash punch, and thought "Jesus fucking christ, that did 17%?" Substitute "Jax's EX dash punch" for "Reptile's EX elbow dash", or "Cyber Sub's EX divekick" (which is actually 18%).

With that in mind, consider this: EX upshadow into teleslam is effectively just an 18% special. As soon as the EX upshadow hits, teleslam is absolutely guaranteed. Not only is it hit confirmable in the event that you make a mistake somehow and the EX upshadow is blocked, it's COMPLETELY unbreakable on hit. On top of all this, ending in a teleslam means you have access to a safe 50/50 mixup with tackle/slide, which can only be beaten by invincible wakeups (and you're only at risk to the ones that can reach you before you recover). How pissed off would you be if Jax, Reptile or Cyber Sub-Zero got a free 50-50 mixup off EVERY one of their respective 17+% EX specials?

Of course, as some of you will point out, it's entirely possible to land a teleslam, tackle or even 1 2 off an anti-air upshadow. This is, however, WILDLY INCONSISTENT. You are NEVER going to get any of these options consistently unless you're the sort of person who can perfectly time every single reaction upshadow. Until someone steps up to the plate and proves to me that they have the sort of robotic reaction time, reflexes and execution necessary to foot the bill, I'm going to say this isn't possible; feel free to challenge me on that. If you'd rather admit to being human, the EX upshadow into guaranteed teleslam setup for 18% is a much more worthwhile investment than gambling on the possibility that you - might - land a followup to an AA upshadow, and as long as you have two bars left for breaker, why not?


SUMMARY: If Noob has full meter, he can opt to spend one bar on EX upshadow in any situation where an anti-air upshadow would be used; he can then hit confirm into an EX teleslam increasing the damage done from 6% to 18% and granting the teleslam mixup.


EX Teleslam in Combos


This one I'm still a little uncertain of, but it's fairly straightforward: Just end combos in EX teleslam, where you'd normally use teleslam. For instance, 2 1 2 teleslam does 20%, while 2 1 2 EX teleslam does 24%. On one hand, 4% damage hardly seems worth one meter. On the other hand, consider that we're talking about a 20% BnB combo, not 30% or 40%. While I'd normally agree that this extremely wasteful, Noob DOES need all the damage he can get, and well, it IS technically a 20% overall increase in combo damage. The only exception to this rule is that the boost is lowered to 3% if the combo is done off a jump-in punch: JIP 2 1 2 teleslam already does 24%, and JIP 2 1 2 EX teleslam only increases this to 27%. Unfortunately, B1 2 1 4 and B2 1 4 only get a 3% boost as well, both from standing and off a jump punch. Of course, you could choose to take this option only in the case of a standard 2 1 2 EX teleslam, but even that proves to be a decent way to squeeze out some extra damage. This one is left entirely up to your discretion. Use it however you will, or not at all, if you so choose.


SUMMARY: If Noob has full meter, he can opt to use EX teleslam in any combo ending in a teleslam, boosting the combo damage by 3% to 4% (depending on the combo).


EX Portal as a Zoning Tool


Again, fairly simple, if much more avant-garde. Not many Noob players seem to use the portal as a basic zoning tool; in fact, many seem to have this moronic idea that "portal resets" are a good way to end midscreen combos. That said, I've come to the conclusion that Noob's portals are an invaluable asset against many characters. In particular, I've found it to be very useful against Kitana, and this idea is 16 Bit-approved. At this point, I'm sure many people would respond with "BUT THE PORTALS DON'T WORK! NO ONE EVER JUMPS INTO THE PORTALS HEADFIRST LIKE THEY DO WITH SWIMMING POOLS AND VAGINAS! THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA! I'M GOING TO GO PLAY KENSHI TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT MYSELF!"

If you are one of these people, get the fuck out of this topic.

Here's some food for thought: Cyrax doesn't throw his bombs because he's counting on every bomb thrown to launch you sky high for a combo, he throws them to limit your space. Jax doesn't do a ground pound because he expects every single one to bounce you into the air, he does them because if you try to AVOID getting hit by it, he can cancel it and get you with something else. Both these tools are considered to be a credit to their respective characters, and it's not because they're expected to hit: It's because they're an effective deterrent. If Cyrax has a bomb in front of you, you aren't about to move forward. If Jax raises his arm for a ground pound, you run the risk of getting hit by it if you just stand there.

If you still don't understand what makes Noob's portals useful, I've lost you.

To put it simply, Noob's portals can be used much like Cyrax's bombs: They limit your opponent's space. If an opponent is closing in on you and you can throw out a close portal, they're not about to step into it. If an opponent is trying to back step to get into their ideal zoning range and you throw out a far portal, they're not going to keep moving backward. You aren't trying to make the portal hit: You're trying to use the portal to limit their space, so everything ELSE is more likely to hit. At the very least, an EX portal is more likely to trip your opponent up if it's unexpected, so I'm sure throwing one of these out occasionally can't hurt; if you have a full bar, what else are you doing with your meter?


Of course, a lot of Cyrax players could tell you that his bombs are largely used to build meter as well, and thankfully, the portal doesn't turn up short on that: It takes 17 portals to build one bar, just as it takes 17 tackles or 17 slides. If you're utilizing the portal properly, you really have nothing to lose for incorporating it into your game, so the question is... Why the hell aren't you?


SUMMARY: If Noob has full meter, he can opt to throw an EX portal to more effectively trap his opponent.


X-Ray in Combos


This one is obviously nothing new or interesting, by any means, but it's still a subject I want to discuss. Personally, I feel that Noob's X-ray combos are all the more vital to him, as it greatly increases his comeback potential. It increases his combo damage considerably, and he gets more for it than any other character in the game: His overall damage potential is raised by about 20% damage on average, whereas most practical X-ray combos offer an increase of around 10% on average. As I mentioned earlier, I feel that Noob's lack of comeback potential is his absolute most glaring flaw. He has an extremely difficult time getting a life lead once he's lost it, and he has very few options for dealing big damage. As a corollary, his X-ray is one of his only readily accessible methods of making a convincing comeback from midscreen. You can take this with a grain of salt if you so please, but in my opinion, you should be ready to use his X-ray in combos any time you connect with a string and have full meter, so long as you're confident that it'll make the difference between winning and losing the round. Obviously, this conflicts with the idea of using EX teleslam in combos, but X-ray combos are also a considerably bigger risk; if you opt for the EX teleslam, you still have breaker. If you opt for the X-ray combo, you're left with nothing, and you are absolutely vulnerable if your opponent connects with a combo. Like the majority of these ideas, this one is a discretionary call. Use one, use both; use neither, if it suits you.

Ironically, this entry also goes against the very nature of the project by telling you to hold on to your meter, but that's not what I'm suggesting: The idea is to use all of the above entries to make more efficient use of your meter and meter gains, but only when the opportunities present themselves. If you're waiting for a chance to AA EX upshadow and you land a combo before the opportunity presents itself, you have this option. If you haven't thrown an EX portal yet because you just didn't see an instance where it'd be worthwhile, you have this option. Most importantly, if it'll ever seal you the first or third round of a set, you'd be a fool not to use this.


SUMMARY: If Noob has full meter, he can opt to use an X-ray combo as an offset to his low comeback potential.
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Alright, so that's that. Try it out, give me your thoughts, and feel free to include any suggestions.

TIL NEXT TIME.
 

Altaire

Warrior
And lastly, for one very special address I'd like to give to one Sage Leviathan:

If I hear one little quip about "Occam's Razor", your overwhelming pretentiousness is going to make me throw up all over your face, and I'd be fucking shocked if you didn't make a contrived effort to say something overly artistic about the vomit. Get the fuck over yourself.

P.S. Ockham's Razor is the more traditional spelling, just FYI. Surely, you know where the term originated... Right?
 

CJKRattlehead

Two men enter, one man leaves!
You double posted the guide. Seems like basically common knowledge to me, but the recovery off a portal is just too slow to set up anything unless you get a hard untechable knock-down.

EDIT: My bad, was going off memory, the recovery isn't that bad.
 

Altaire

Warrior
You double posted the guide. Seems like basically common knowledge to me, but the recovery off a portal is just too slow to set up anything unless you get a hard untechable knock-down.
I edited that out immediately. This forum's editor is not exactly the most ergonomic way to write a full paper.

How is the recovery "too slow"? If your opponent is dash blocking to get in and you throw a close portal, they have to stop for a second, which negates the recovery time. If they jump on reaction, you recover quickly enough to anti-air with a tackle or upshadow, depending on the distance. Your opponent either has to jump forward at the same time, by sheer dumb luck, or they have to be a fucking Jedi. The portal recovery time is absolutely fine. People really don't take into account that no one is going to be bolting across the screen against Noob Saibot any time soon when there are shadows to deal with.

...Except for Reptile, and there's a reason he's one of Noob's worst matchups.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
Dude, I loved the post but the thing against Sage is unwarranted. If you don't like him keep it to yourself. If he makes a snip, I'm perfectly sure a moderator can handle. No need to pick fights over the internet because he is artistic or what the dick ever your problem is.

The stuff about EX portal was great. I know it would've won me a few matches if I opted to throw an EX portal. It was pretty funny too, especially the EX upknee teleslam for 18%.
 

Altaire

Warrior
YOU'RE FUCKING HIDEOUS!


Good shit, though. Portals are indeed underused.
I laughed way too fucking hard at this, I'm sure.

I agree wholeheartedly, though. I'm hoping portal use will become more mainstream as the character is developed further. It's also - wait for it - Something Kenshi DOESN'T have over Noob in the zoning department!
 

Altaire

Warrior
Dude, I loved the post but the thing against Sage is unwarranted. If you don't like him keep it to yourself. If he makes a snip, I'm perfectly sure a moderator can handle. No need to pick fights over the internet because he is artistic or what the dick ever your problem is.

The stuff about EX portal was great. I know it would've won me a few matches if I opted to throw an EX portal. It was pretty funny too, especially the EX upknee teleslam for 18%.
Sage started with me first. He drew first blood, and that's all the reason I need.
 

Altaire

Warrior
Wouldn't being the more mature one make you look superior? You could be the Foxy and he could be the Curbo, lol.

I'm already confident that I'm stronger, smarter and better looking than the majority of people that I come into conflict with. Maturity is just not something that concerns me.

...If this post is any indication.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to point out that I've spent this ENTIRE FUCKING DAY in pajama pants and a T-shirt, from the moment I woke up at 6:30. In fact, this is how I spend every day off where I don't leave the house. I guess my mentality is that between running in the morning and lifting/running again at night, I'm going to have to shower in the evening anyway, so there's no real point in getting dressed.

Of course, by that time, I'll probably just slip back into pajama pants and a T-shirt AGAIN because it's so goddamn comfortable. Shoutouts to pajama pants. Thank CHRIST I'm still a bachelor.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Wouldn't being the more mature one make you look superior? You could be the Foxy and he could be the Curbo, lol.
Nope he can do what he wants b/c the noob thread has been dead recently and needs some activity. May the flame war start!

***Edit*** Im obviously Joking. Id like for no arguments to start so Im keeping an eye on everyone! >:3
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
I have trouble against Noob Saibots that don't mindlessly zone so studying on him is one good way to make it easier... if I can try to prevent them from gaining meter in some way then that helps a bit...good stuff Altaire!


I can't help but just love that charisma Altaire has. You don't find much people like that nowadays
 

Altaire

Warrior
UPDATE: Added the base meter gain for a tackle, upshadow, portal or slide. It takes 17 uses to build one bar with a portal, tackle or slide, and it takes 27 uses for an upshadow.

I also fixed some minor spelling/formatting errors throughout the guide. Jesus christ, I didn't proofread this thing as well as I thought.
 

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
And lastly, for one very special address I'd like to give to one Sage Leviathan:

If I hear one little quip about "Occam's Razor", your overwhelming pretentiousness is going to make me throw up all over your face, and I'd be fucking shocked if you didn't make a contrived effort to say something overly artistic about the vomit. Get the fuck over yourself.

P.S. Ockham's Razor is the more traditional spelling, just FYI. Surely, you know where the term originated... Right?
I read the guide and enjoyed specifically the Portal explanation.
By 17 Shadows, Slides, Portals/ 27 Upknees, did you mean their general use or if they opponent blocks them?
Also, id rather AA with normal Upknee or NJP, but i agree with your reasoning.

*If theres a problem youd like to discuss, PM me; I dont want to crowd the forums.
 

Altaire

Warrior
That negates the entire purpose of this topic, but alright.

Again, 17 base tackles/slides/portals. The gain for blocked projectiles was already included in the guide.
 

D. R.

Kombatant
This is good shit. Your response to CJK should also be included in the guide or revised Altaire. Portals are a hell of a lot more rewarding zoning tool then shadows. You're building meter off of both obviously, but they force action much better since they are unblockable and can lead to easy 30%+ combos, especially when used for zone control from halfscreen or less against rushdown oriented characters.
 

NkdSingularity

Truth and Ugly
If you're going to use a bar in a combo you could use it for an EN Upknee; b1,2,1xxENupknee,teleport. 2,1xx and b2,1xx also combo. For 25, 24 and 23% respectively. This way you build a smidge of that bar back straighaway. You could also use ENtele for 28% off the b1 starter if it would win you the round (for two bars).
 

Altaire

Warrior
I actually tried EX upknee into teleslam, and I found it always did as much damage in those situations as just doing EX teleslam. I never really took into account that it builds slightly more meter. That's an interesting detail.