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The Martial Arts Thread

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
That's one guy, and he combined Taekwondo with Muay Thai and kickboxing, and in many of the videos they showed, he was up against opponents who were also using Taekwondo. If you're already an athletic powerhouse then you can make almost any style work in the ring. Just look at Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do, which no one else has really been able to use successfully, to my knowledge.

But when I say "in a fight", I don't mean "in the ring", where there are rules. I mean in a legit fight with another person in the real world. I'm sure that dude would devastate most people in a real fight, but that's despite using Taekwondo, not because of it. Most real fights end up on the ground. There's a statistic somewhere, and it's insanely high, like 90% or higher. And when you start trying to kick above the knee, your chances of getting dropped go even higher. The high kicks and spin kicks of Taekwondo aren't meant for real-world self defense, and once you're on the ground, I can't think of a single Taekwondo technique that will help you.

All that is to say, if you're not already an Australian powerhouse and your goal is to learn self defense, Taekwondo is not the right martial art for you.
Imo the best martial arts for self defence is BJJ.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Imo the best martial arts for self defence is BJJ.
It's good and I hear Krav Maga is good. Really, general self-defense classes are going to be better for most people than taking a martial art. The most effective self-defense is the simplest, like just kicking someone in the nuts and running away. If you can reliably hit someone in the throat, poke an eye, kick out a knee, or smash their nuts, you're going to have more success than the purple belt trying to remember the proper technique for a takedown. I don't care how big or athletic you are, your nose, nuts, and eyes are just as vulnerable as anyone else's, so I don't need 10 years of training and athleticism to win a fight against you.

There's a funny Bruce Lee story where he was at some martial arts expo, and this martial arts master had developed a technique to resist being taken down. No matter how hard anyone came at him, he could absorb the blow and remain standing. So, he challenged Bruce to try to knock him off his feet. Bruce looked at him a second, smiled, and kicked him right in the nuts. Dude dropped like a sack of potatoes. Martial arts are about rules and proper technique, but self-defense is just about surviving the fight.
 

Icefyre

Shadows
Imo the best martial arts for self defence is BJJ.
My vote goes to KM for best, BJJ a close second. BJJ and KM go extremely well together imo, but it’s hard to directly compare the two.

The issue with BJJ is its emphasis on 1v1. Despite the truth that about 90% of fights go to the ground, it’s not as efficient as either getting away from most attackers (first topic of discussion in my KM classes - avoid any and all fights), or potentially more crucially, it doesn’t help when being attacked by more than one person or weapons. KM does it all with the mindset of “no rules, you fight to survive”, which is why I prefer it for self defense. To me though, simply because of how well they complement each other, it’s likely best to cross train the two.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
My vote goes to KM for best, BJJ a close second. BJJ and KM go extremely well together imo, but it’s hard to directly compare the two.

The issue with BJJ is its emphasis on 1v1. Despite the truth that about 90% of fights go to the ground, it’s not as efficient as either getting away from most attackers (first topic of discussion in my KM classes - avoid any and all fights), or potentially more crucially, it doesn’t help when being attacked by more than one person or weapons. KM does it all with the mindset of “no rules, you fight to survive”, which is why I prefer it for self defense. To me though, simply because of how well they complement each other, it’s likely best to cross train the two.
If you put a blackbelt KM vs a black belt BJJ my money is always on the BJJ black belt.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
If you put a blackbelt KM vs a black belt BJJ my money is always on the BJJ black belt.
That's probably true tho, because BJJ you train to be an athlete, in KM you don't have that kind of training. You don't even have competitions. Maybe in a street fight, it would be different, but in an octagon, BJJ would probably win since the athlete will have the cardio to complete the rounds and fight well.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
That's probably true tho, because BJJ you train to be an athlete, in KM you don't have that kind of training. You don't even have competitions. Maybe in a street fight, it would be different, but in an octagon, BJJ would probably win since the athlete will have the cardio to complete the rounds and fight well.
BJJ is all about submissions and defending against submissions. If a BJJ guy gets you to the ground and u dont know how to defend he litterally kills you.
Cardio hasnt really much to do with BJJ, ofcourse you will get better cardio practising BJJ, but how good your cardio will be is totally up to yourself and how much time you spent doing cardio. But thats a seperate thing.
Honestly i dont know much about KM so i cant really say much about that but in ufc most fighters who dont have any basic BJJ will get mopped.
 

Icefyre

Shadows
If you put a blackbelt KM vs a black belt BJJ my money is always on the BJJ black belt.
Well, KM doesn't really go by belts, but I get your point. However, this is a scenario where we're comparing apples to oranges, because the goal of BJJ and KM are two different things.

If you put them into a ring 1v1 and told them to fight until somebody wins, then yeah I'd probably go with the BJJ too because KM doesn't focus a lot on what to do once you're on the ground, just how to efficiently get back up. Problem is, KM teaches you to survive, not win fights. There's two different mindsets there. In a ring between the two, all the KM practiioner has to do to "win" is keep the BJJ guy away from you. If you're not losing the fight, you're winning. BJJ wants that submission to force a "win".

With your ufc comparison, here's the thing: yes, knowing BJJ has become an absolute staple in that it's an art you must know to survive in a ring. KM, other the other hand, spends most of it's time teaching you how to defend yourself in ways that are not legal in a ring. You'll never see it in UFC or MMA because it's entire philosophy is exactly the stuff they want to prevent in the ring. KM, when used as trained, has a high probability of doing mild to severe lasting damage to a person.

There's nothing fun or cool about slamming a hammer fist down onto the back of somebody's neck or punching their throat in. If I'm in a situation where survival, not winning a fight, is the key - KM is preferred easily. There are too many variables BJJ doesn't prepare for in a street fight, a key example being how to defend against multiple attackers from different angles. If a street fight goes to the ground and you know BJJ, that's good - a blue belt in BJJ can submit 99% of the population, but it won't help you if that guy's friend comes up behind you to kick you in the head while you have him submitted.

All this is why I personally think the two should be cross trained, not compared side by side since the tool sets they give you are designed for different scenarios.

That's probably true tho, because BJJ you train to be an athlete, in KM you don't have that kind of training. You don't even have competitions. Maybe in a street fight, it would be different, but in an octagon, BJJ would probably win since the athlete will have the cardio to complete the rounds and fight well.
Interesting. My KM gym starts off by making you run laps until you're breathing super heavy before getting into the techniques for the day, the idea being to train when you're at your worst physical condition, not your best. Does yours do it differently?
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
There's this mixed martial arts place not too far from me within a few miles. The one GOOD law that got passed in NYS the past couple of years literally the one and only good one is that they passed a bill to allow MMA to be taught here, for years they deemed it "too violent" yet they still had karate, judo, tai kwan do. Yeah I know stupid...think I'll definitely take some courses again especially since NYS is one of the states that is anti protect yourself with no weapons or anything, so when the bad guy attacks better to not feel entirely helpless.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
I've had a bit of a mixed bag. Started if with karate and tkd as a youngster. Got a bit older and went into boxing. When I stopped that I didn't do much for a while and in my mid 20s started training at our local mma gym. My trainer was James Tahuna who went on to fight in the UFC. Never had any fights myself in mma and ended up with busted cartilage in my left knee and gave it all up.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I've had a bit of a mixed bag. Started if with karate and tkd as a youngster. Got a bit older and went into boxing. When I stopped that I didn't do much for a while and in my mid 20s started training at our local mma gym. My trainer was James Tahuna who went on to fight in the UFC. Never had any fights myself in mma and ended up with busted cartilage in my left knee and gave it all up.
Nice. The few fights inched were in elementary school vs kids always bigger than me so I played dirty, I kicked them in the balls and knees then once they went down attacked their face lol. This other time got into a grapple fight with a fat kid who had 100 pounds on me so I kept kneeling him in the gut.

This other time I hit this kid same kid twice as big as me, so I hat easy access to his kneecaps. I hit him in the balls then once he crouched slammed him in the face with my lunchbox lol. Yeah I fought dirty, especially if they were bigger than me. Lol