15 years ago, my friend and I had a heated debate. Upon seeing a commercial for Jack In The Box's Ultimate Cheeseburger, Jonathan said to me "That's not a cheeseburger. There's no stuff on it." My response was, "Of course it is. A cheeseburger just means meat and cheese. If you put something else on it, it becomes a cheeseburger 'with stuff'" And from that moment, the great debate was born. What does "cheeseburger" actually mean? Option 1: A cheeseburger is the combination of meat, cheese, and bun. Simple. The "plain" cheeseburger is the cheeseburger's default natural state. If you have ketchup, then it becomes "Cheeseburger with ketchup". Add tomato and pickles, and you have "a cheeseburger with tomato and pickles", aka: a cheeseburger "with stuff". Option 2. A cheeseburger is the total presentation of meat, cheese, bun, and toppings. For example, lettuce, pickles, onion, condiments. There is no default form of "cheeseburger", because people like different condiments and toppings. But the principal is that a cheeseburger must have stuff to be a cheeseburger, and without the stuff, it becomes "a cheeseburger without stuff". _______________________ Personally, I fall into category one. Let me tell you why. I'm not saying that the no-stuff cheeseburger is the best. Just that it's what a cheeseburger is at its core, and anything else is a modification. I like lettuce and mayo on my cheeseburger. But that's simply how I like to modify a cheeseburger. I'm adding what I want. I do not expect anyone to have my same tastes, so I think we can all agree on the default minimal ingredients to start. If you take away the lettuce and mayo, you still have a meal. If you take away the meat, it's not longer a cheeseburger. Jonathan's argument was always: "When you order a cheeseburger, in any place, it comes with stuff. If you don't want stuff, you have to ASK for no stuff. That means that a cheeseburger, by definition, has stuff." On it's face, this argument is compelling. But my rebuttal was: "The question is 'What IS a cheeseburger?', not, 'What do you get when you order a cheeseburger?'" Just because a place prepares a cheeseburger a certain way, does not affect the definition of what a cheeseburger is at it's core. The fact that if you don't want stuff you have to order a "plain cheeseburger", or else you can expect who-knows-what kind of toppings on it, is totally irrelevant to the argument. So what do you think? @GGA Slips @GGA 16 Bit KTP topic?