Th3 Art of Poking!

[IIAvirus]

Just wondering If anyone have found any good poke strings or when to poke and how to poke because I dont think its used enough considering how good it is also what is d4 useful for? all ideas are open.

 

[Lord Beef]

Just wondering If anyone have found any good poke strings or when to poke and how to poke because I dont think its used enough considering how good it is also what is d4 useful for? all ideas are open.

Lol, cages game is all about pokes and normals. Mainly revolving around frame advantage. Hit up playpal. His cage is pretty beast man.

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[Dat Al]

The use of d4, and I am sure the frame wizards will correct me if im wrong, is that on hit you are at plus 12 frames, which leaves you able to get in either f3 or 21 pressure. Pretty integral part of JC's game. d1, d3, f3 and standing 1 are all great ways to get in on an opponent as well.

 

[Playpal]

Lol, cages game is all about pokes and normals. Mainly revolving around frame advantage. Hit up playpal. His cage is pretty beast man.

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Dude did you change your psn?


The use of D1 usually comes from interrupting pressure and anti-airing. D1 is like, -12 on block. Only reason why we don't see too many people actually punish D1 on block is because the hit stun is virtually nil and it's very hard to react to. To really punish a D1 you'd need to anticipate it. Either way, a person can escape pressure on a blocked D1. I love JC's D1. His crouching hit box is small, so it's easy to anti-air people with it. I also feel like it has more range than the average D1 but that's probably wrong. It's also 6 frames, which will beat out anything that's not armored or also 6 frames.

D3 and D4 are also good pokes. D3 is one way to interrupt pressure. It's 7 frames but gives more advantage than the D1 (check frame data for numbers). It's also disadvantage on block so an opponent can jump out or poke back, but not nearly so as D1. D4 is +12 on a standing opponent, great to use at longer ranges. You can follow up with a guaranteed F3 or 21 to recondition them into high block.

I don't use D3 too often though, I feel like D1 serves the same purpose as the D3 without conditioning them to block low. A low blocking opponent can really nullify JC's pressure game because you can't ex forceball or do standing 1. You can pretty much do the same damage in chip anyways when a D4 hits. D4 is definitely useful though because of it's range and frame advantage. If D3 lands on a crouching opponent though, you're +7, so it's not all bad. Not to mention D1 is -1 on crouch hit. All depends on preference I suppose.

 

[Lord Beef]

Dude did you change your psn?

I just made a new one cause I got tired of the X's in my name, but I got all sentimental and could leave my old one. ^_^ Guess I should change it back on my profile.


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[Faded Dreams V]

*Poke*

 

[IIAvirus]

On A side note any mk players on xblive add me I need more comp later just send a request ile accept.

 

[Dat Al]

Just sort of throwing a question out there, but how many of you guys make throws a regular part of your pressure game? I feel like I've kinda plateaued with my JC game, getting poked out of my pressure and what not. I'm curious if you guys feel that ending pressure is worth the 12 percent damage. I guess it would condition opponents to know what if they just hold block and try and poke, they're gonna eat a grab, but on the other hand that's potential chip and meter gone.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I only throw if I'm near the corner or if its gonna leave me in a position to chip em out with a forceball/shadow kick etc. The main use for it is to give them the wakeup option, some players might actually do a wakeup just because they never usually get the option.

You shouldnt be getting poked out of what you're doing if you're not patterned. Gotta make use of everything to keep up the Cagin, back dashes, F4 setups 1/11/11F1 on occasion, cross overs etc. You can punish pokes with a properly spaced B3 (except kitana). You just gotta get into their head, abuse the openings you give them.

I dont agree with [MENTION=7704]Playpal[/MENTION] that a ducking opponent gives JC trouble, that means that they're respecting the forceball trap, which means you know theyre trying to fuzzy guard, if theyre trying to fuzzy guard that means you get to do soooo much more with F3 and F4 (which gives 3 launcher set ups/block string setups/X-Ray set ups/baits a special)

 

[Dat Al]

I've been playing way too much sub lately, my cage has gotten super rusty.

EDIT: Also, what kinds of setups are we talking about for f4? I'm curious, rarely use it outside of after a jump in or nutpunch. Does it still grant advantage on block?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I dont think its advantage on block (or maybe it is? or neutral but not negative), but it gives enough pushback to whiff punish an opponents D1 with your B3, if they block you can F3, some players (especially reptiles/kung laos) like to do a special move after it despite it being safe, if they jump back you can punish the back jump, if they jump forward you can punish. Basically it gives you more options than them, unless they are Sub/Noob like usual.

If you know the opponent is fuzzy guarding you'll be suprised at the amount of times when you land an Exforceball on block that the F4 hits afterwards

 

[Crathen]

Iirc f4 is +1 on block , so the most obvious setup is d1 wich will interrupt any move your opponent is gonna do ( unless armor ) and if they jump they're gonna eat a combo , now d1 on hit is -1 on crouch block and 0 on hit ( playpal can you confirm? ) so it doesn't stop your opponent from poking again , d3 should be something like +2/+3 on hit so it gives an almost guaranteed f3 ( on block it's at disadvantage around -5 ) but it can be jumped out of , now that's where b3 comes in , after every string / poke if the opponent feels like poking with a fast normal to interrupt cages' rushdown he can just backdash making your poke whiff and catch you with b3 wich will also cover crossjumps thanks to the huge vertical ( and horizontal ) hitbox.

B3 is 11 frames and somewhat punishable on block but it has pushback so not everyone is going to punish it especially if done max range and even if you get in with a string ( always character depending ) Cage can just use the disadvantage and Ex Nutpunch into more pressure.

There are plenty of b3 setups and i don't see them used a lot , my sparring partner Sandman uses b3 in his game from lotta time and we both agree that it's one of his most powerful tools against anyone and especially vs some of his "bad MU" like Mileena to counter their keepaway ( mostly d4 )

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Iirc f4 is +1 on block , so the most obvious setup is d1 wich will interrupt any move your opponent is gonna do ( unless armor ) and if they jump they're gonna eat a combo , now d1 on hit is -1 on crouch block and 0 on hit ( playpal can you confirm? ) so it doesn't stop your opponent from poking again , d3 should be something like +2/+3 on hit so it gives an almost guaranteed f3 ( on block it's at disadvantage around -5 ) but it can be jumped out of , now that's where b3 comes in , after every string / poke if the opponent feels like poking with a fast normal to interrupt cages' rushdown he can just backdash making your poke whiff and catch you with b3 wich will also cover crossjumps thanks to the huge vertical ( and horizontal ) hitbox.

B3 is 11 frames and somewhat punishable on block but it has pushback so not everyone is going to punish it especially if done max range and even if you get in with a string ( always character depending ) Cage can just use the disadvantage and Ex Nutpunch into more pressure.

There are plenty of b3 setups and i don't see them used a lot , my sparring partner Sandman uses b3 in his game from lotta time and we both agree that it's one of his most powerful tools against anyone and especially vs some of his "bad MU" like Mileena to counter their keepaway ( mostly d4 )

The B3 totally outplays the D1 though, if theyre gonna retaliate you may aswell take 30% off than just poke them, thats what the back dash is for. I think only Reptile can punish the B3. B3 > Mileenas D4 anyway, she isnt a bad matchup for him at all IMO. I'm not gonna accept that she could possibly be a bad match up until she actually can prevent Cage from moving forward or escape easily.

 

[Crathen]

The B3 totally outplays the D1 though, if theyre gonna retaliate you may aswell take 30% off than just poke them, thats what the back dash is for. I think only Reptile can punish the B3. B3 > Mileenas D4 anyway, she isnt a bad matchup for him at all IMO. I'm not gonna accept that she could possibly be a bad match up until she actually can prevent Cage from moving forward or escape easily.

I agree 80% on the b3>d1 , thing is b3 can be punished from contact range by almost anyone in the cast where d1 is safer and punishes jumps , since i play a lot vs Cage i can make a read of your backdash into b3 and just dash forward into block wich will allow me to punish it where d1 will not be punishable or again if i read your backdash into b3 i can just backdash and whiff punish your b3 , in the end it's all about making reads vs Cage.

Also i never thinked Mileena as a bad MU for Cage ( that's why i said "bad matchup" ) , that's just silly , 80% of her tools are useless against him and she has no armor other than her Xray and her d4 can be whiff punished hard by b3.

 

[Dat Al]

Good points on b3. Gonna need to incorporate it into my game more. Only really use it right now for punishing jump ins.

 

[Playpal]

[MENTION=5755]Crathen[/MENTION] if you check the frame data, I made a post that says D1 is +1 on stand hit.

 

[Dizzy]

I agree 80% on the b3>d1 , thing is b3 can be punished from contact range by almost anyone in the cast where d1 is safer and punishes jumps , since i play a lot vs Cage i can make a read of your backdash into b3 and just dash forward into block wich will allow me to punish it where d1 will not be punishable or again if i read your backdash into b3 i can just backdash and whiff punish your b3 , in the end it's all about making reads vs Cage.

Also i never thinked Mileena as a bad MU for Cage ( that's why i said "bad matchup" ) , that's just silly , 80% of her tools are useless against him and she has no armor other than her Xray and her d4 can be whiff punished hard by b3.

I think saying B3 is easily punished is a great overstatement. Atleast half the cast if not more cant punish it on block. Reptile, KL, Raiden, JC, NW and Jax are the only ones I can think of but there is probably a few more.

Cages backdash isn't that great, pressing and holding back is better in most situations as he is one of the characters who takes a giant first step when backpedaling

Also, you love using 80%

 

[Crathen]

I think saying B3 is easily punished is a great overstatement. Atleast half the cast if not more cant punish it on block. Reptile, KL, Raiden, JC, NW and Jax are the only ones I can think of but there is probably a few more.

Cages backdash isn't that great, pressing and holding back is better in most situations as he is one of the characters who takes a giant first step when backpedaling

Also, you love using 80%

Love them 80% lol ( was in a rush when writing that tbh )

Anyways b3 is punishable , not like a blocked teleport but still possible , Kabal can Ex Nomad Dash , Mileena can roll or d4 , Sektor can f2 Ft or dash 1 Ft and i'm sure there are others that can punish it that way ( can't test much since i got a laggy tv now ) , also i wouldn't advice dashing forward if i read a b3 , i'll most likely backdash/walk and whiff punish it since b3 has bad recovery.

I'm not saying b3 is bad , it's a great tool but still can be countered.

Also yeah i didn't mean backdash , i know from a while Cages backdash isn't good , gonna be more specific next time

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I agree 80% on the b3>d1 , thing is b3 can be punished from contact range by almost anyone in the cast where d1 is safer and punishes jumps , since i play a lot vs Cage i can make a read of your backdash into b3 and just dash forward into block wich will allow me to punish it where d1 will not be punishable or again if i read your backdash into b3 i can just backdash and whiff punish your b3 , in the end it's all about making reads vs Cage.

Also i never thinked Mileena as a bad MU for Cage ( that's why i said "bad matchup" ) , that's just silly , 80% of her tools are useless against him and she has no armor other than her Xray and her d4 can be whiff punished hard by b3.

The fact that you have to make a read about the B3 and therefore hold block is your disadvantage, having a certain move but not using it can be just as useful

 

[Crathen]

The fact that you have to make a read about the B3 and therefore hold block is your disadvantage, having a certain move but not using it can be just as useful

Yeah but that can be said even from the opponent , you still have to make a read and think your opponent will lowpoke in order to walk back b3 wich can be punished either on block or whiff , pretty fair if you ask me this has been used against me from lots of time and never got real problems with it , it's not like i've been fighting "d1 allday ftw" Cages.

Also take into account armor moves.

 

[Eternal]

Th3?

 

[leek]

I feel like I've kinda plateaued with my JC game, getting poked out of my pressure and what not.

I totally understand. I'm feeling the same..

ontopic: 44 works great for me when I expect them to poke.

 

[Dat Al]

I totally understand. I'm feeling the same..

ontopic: 44 works great for me when I expect them to poke.

On that note, I played a guy who's JC pressure consisted of doing 44 over and over again. I almost lost. Sometimes the stupidest shit is the hardest to get around lol.