Question - Tempest Tempest vs Shirai ryu

[WiseM0nkey]

so, i've played @st9rm Shirai ryu quite a few, and i must say i feel kinda helpless against him.

he's obviously a better player then me, and i recon that i get outplayed for the most, but i dont think i've struggled that much in neutral against any other character.

here's the things i know:

- i can punish the whips on whiff
- i can punish the tele and air spear (?)
- his only blockstring that jails on kunai is f12 2+4, others are armorable

here's where i struggle:

- his space control neglates me every other options besides run in string on read or tele on read.
- his oki options with the whips prevents him to get hit by the ex-spin on wake up as well as prevent me from jumping.
- kunai set ups, i dont even.. just no...
- poke game feels wierd. im always not in range of my fastest normals or i get blown up by his f12 tho it should've been my turn (could be bad timing from my part, but still).

I really think im not playing the MU well, it seems like i have no options, tho i have them.

if someone has any tips it would be very helpful. thanks

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Lao doesn't have to worry about Takeda unless he's knocked down and put into an ex kunai set up.

All that F12 game Takeda has should pretty much only ever start up because you let him get away with it.

It's pretty much your turn all the time.

 

[aieches]

so, i've played @st9rm Shirai ryu quite a few, and i must say i feel kinda helpless against him.

he's obviously a better player then me, and i recon that i get outplayed for the most, but i dont think i've struggled that much in neutral against any other character.

here's the things i know:

- i can punish the whips on whiff
- i can punish the tele and air spear (?)
- his only blockstring that jails on kunai is f12 2+4, others are armorable

here's where i struggle:

- his space control neglates me every other options besides run in string on read or tele on read.
- his oki options with the whips prevents him to get hit by the ex-spin on wake up as well as prevent me from jumping.
- kunai set ups, i dont even.. just no...
- poke game feels wierd. im always not in range of my fastest normals or i get blown up by his f12 tho it should've been my turn (could be bad timing from my part, but still).

I really think im not playing the MU well, it seems like i have no options, tho i have them.

if someone has any tips it would be very helpful. thanks

i would say pressure - this is one match up where i think Takeda can def have the upper hand most of the match if we play my game..( edit- i just read foxys first sentence- disregard what i said- listen to him ) . most Tempests that i lose to are just killer with pressure and not letting up.. they really dont give me time to create the space i need. and bring the match dont to my pace.

im gonna try to bait your spin pretty much every single wake up as long as you keep failing for it. if you have bar and you see me run up on wake up 99% of the time im just baiting the spin. -


im going to inch or walk forward a lot. trying to get you to teleport or yolo dive kick . BUT instant dive kicks do have potential

ji2 and jb2 are a bitch for me to deal with..

um lets see.. random air teleports to get it can work when they catch me off gaurd..- if you teleport a lot then im looking for it, but if you rarely teleport then , use this to catch me slipping and youre in .

for kunai set ups honestly, i say this can be hard - not everyone uses the same methods or timing. its something that you pretty much have to adapt to on spot vs who you are playing similar to Quan chis mess- like not all quans are gonna go low bat ~ overhead.. it might be the ones that the ones that go low bat ~ low that always catch you.

as for the poke game - i think KL f2 and f11 outpokes me a lot also. but this could be the same reasoning as yours with maybe its my excecution and poking when i prob shouldn't.

but then again you play st9rm so -- good luck. haha.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Lao doesn't have to worry about Takeda unless he's knocked down and put into an ex kunai set up.

All that F12 game Takeda has should pretty much only ever start up because you let him get away with it.

It's pretty much your turn all the time.

i tend to give respect, maybe too much... but again the f12 is wierd for me, against other chars i know when i can 11212 or d4 or f2, but not against takeda for some reason. for instance, i block a d3 and i go for d1 or whatever, and i get hit by f12.

as for the set ups and wake up, what do you usually do?

i would say pressure - this is one match up where i think Takeda can def have the upper hand most of the match if we play my game..( edit- i just read foxys first sentence- disregard what i said- listen to him ) . most Tempests that i lose to are just killer with pressure and not letting up.. they really dont give me time to create the space i need. and bring the match dont to my pace.

im gonna try to bait your spin pretty much every single wake up as long as you keep failing for it. if you have bar and you see me run up on wake up 99% of the time im just baiting the spin. -


im going to inch or walk forward a lot. trying to get you to teleport or yolo dive kick . BUT instant dive kicks do have potential

ji2 and jb2 are a bitch for me to deal with..

um lets see.. random air teleports to get it can work when they catch me off gaurd..- if you teleport a lot then im looking for it, but if you rarely teleport then , use this to catch me slipping and youre in .

for kunai set ups honestly, i say this can be hard - not everyone uses the same methods or timing. its something that you pretty much have to adapt to on spot vs who you are playing similar to Quan chis mess- like not all quans are gonna go low bat ~ overhead.. it might be the ones that the ones that go low bat ~ low that always catch you.

as for the poke game - i think KL f2 and f11 outpokes me a lot also. but this could be the same reasoning as yours with maybe its my excecution and poking when i prob shouldn't.

but then again you play st9rm so -- good luck. haha.

as i said before i tend to respect, but for the most i have issue trying to get in on mid range, and when i lay on the ground it's pretty much game over.

thanks for the tips tho

 

[aieches]

i tend to give respect, maybe too much... but again the f12 is wierd for me, against other chars i know when i can 11212 or d4 or f2, but not against takeda for some reason. for instance, i block a d3 and i go for d1 or whatever, and i get hit by f12.

as for the set ups and wake up, what do you usually do?



as i said before i tend to respect, but for the most i have issue trying to get in on mid range, and when i lay on the ground it's pretty much game over.

thanks for the tips tho

I fall victim to instant dive kicks - air to air dive kicks -and ji2 prob more than i should. i always think i have my spacing just right or i think i can bait it properly but my call is wrong and thats when it becomes a war to fend off the pressure.

& yeah when KL is on the ground im def a happy camper. once i feel more confident - thats when ill start more ex kunai set ups and harder pressure on oki even when you have bars,

now sometimes though a wake up ji2 can be more effective than you think it would be. esp when i didnt expect it and you go right over my f21/b3 or though my b21

but im no KL expert- so hopefully more people can chime in - these are the probs i face though.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I fall victim to instant dive kicks - air to air dive kicks -and ji2 prob more than i should. i always think i have my spacing just right or i think i can bait it properly but my call is wrong and thats when it becomes a war to fend off the pressure.

& yeah when KL is on the ground im def a happy camper. once i feel more confident - thats when ill start more ex kunai set ups and harder pressure on oki even when you have bars,

now sometimes though a wake up ji2 can be more effective than you think it would be. esp when i didnt expect it and you go right over my f21/b3 or though my b21

but im no KL expert- so hopefully more people can chime in - these are the probs i face though.

ok i figured out that i dealy wake up too much, giving free kunai se tups and time to pressure me

 

[Professor Oak]

I may be in the minority, and this could also be personal opinion, but I like buzzsaw for this MU.

 

[aieches]

I may be in the minority, and this could also be personal opinion, but I like buzzsaw for this MU.

Takeda has a harder time vs buzz saw than tempest. Least most of us seem to think so

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I may be in the minority, and this could also be personal opinion, but I like buzzsaw for this MU.

Takeda has a harder time vs buzz saw than tempest. Least most of us seem to think so

yeh i can see the benefits from MB straight hat preventing you from doing whips and giving me a way in. Could be an answer.

 

[aieches]

i will tell you right now that low hat pressure and set ups are a bitch to deal with for takeda, at least for me.

And esp when more are used to fighting tempest , relentless buzzsaw pressure can just shut the mind down quick cause i of the habits youve formed for dealing with tempest .

its pretty much what most go through when they have to deal with a good ronin or lasher.. its like where are all these shenanigans coming from.