Question - Tempest Temp vs Zero(grandmaster) / Kitana

[DDTECH]

What are your guys approach to players that tend to hide behind the clone alot or fan zone.

Dont say teleport, some of these guys are obviously good at it and time the uppercut with the teleport.

I'm looking for game plans, i have alot of pressure and it works when i can get it to connect, but the problem is, getting close enough while these pusses spam zone.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

What are your guys approach to players that tend to hide behind the clone alot or fan zone.

Dont say teleport, some of these guys are obviously good at it and time the uppercut with the teleport.

I'm looking for game plans, i have alot of pressure and it works when i can get it to connect, but the problem is, getting close enough while these pusses spam zone.

Pretty sure if you react to the Clone going up and teleport, he doesn't have time to uppercut you. You can definitely do it in reaction to his zoning as well, and if thr spam is what's beating you, you should be able to read that into Teleport for some of the hardest hitting meter less mid screen damage in the game.

Sorry if you don't like that answer. Your other option is get in close and pressure, don't throw out anything punishable and only attack when you have plus frames, that way he doesn't have an opportunity to zone you. His zoning isnt that great either.

If you do get in the situation but refuse to use Teleport for basically it's only use in the game, then basically make sure you abuse the gaps. When he clones, run at him. Cancel the run into low block by the time he has recovered from the Clone into Slide. You have now just completely safely closed a lot of the gap. It's fine to take some chip from him closing this gap, remember he has one of the lowest damage in the game.




The tools are there. It's up to you if you want to learn them.

 

[DDTECH]

Thank you for the response. Its what i'm looking for. I dont give a shit if its what others want to hear. I'm tired of wrecking and then coming across a medicore subzero player's GM and just hides behind the clone, does the same dumbass combo that every other sub user uses and then thinks they are just awesome because they can pin you in a corner. Oh btw, His Armor hammer will out armor our temps wake up spin.. fyi lol

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Thank you for the response. Its what i'm looking for. I dont give a shit if its what others want to hear. I'm tired of wrecking and then coming across a medicore subzero player's GM and just hides behind the clone, does the same dumbass combo that every other sub user uses and then thinks they are just awesome because they can pin you in a corner. Oh btw, His Armor hammer will out armor our temps wake up spin.. fyi lol

Yeah, the Clone creates less linear gameplay than you might be used to, so it can take a little bit of getting used to playing around it. But he's balanced around it in other ways. To be fair about the combo, theres practically only one worthwhile midscreen combo he can do, opener> into iceball, then then finish with 242, RC, 123 Slide. Not much point in doing much else, the character is built around his corner pressure. BTW, Grandmaster doesn't get the hammer, it's specific to Cryomancer.

Just try take advantage of the fact that to throw a projectile from behind a Clone, he needs to spend a bunch of time putting up the Clone, you can freely use this time to advance. If you read that he IS going to throw a projectile you can advance even further if you want to take the risk on Slide. Once you're armed with this it becomes much harder to get zoned by Sub, he might be able to chip you out with a couple of Clone tosses here and there if hes lucky, but thats about it. And just doing that IS risking a huge Teleport punish so just keep in mind, that this is pretty much THE definitive use for our Teleport, it serves no other purpose other than abusing plus frames from range really, ie getting it off before a projectile can hit, and both Subs projectiles are really slow travelling and use a lot of frames from him.

 

[DDTECH]

What about Kat? .. Any ways to approach the players of that status?..

I'm pretty good with lao my game has recently taken the next step and honestly i feel like i'm in my own zone when playing now.. I also find most players, dont respect wake ups but it always seems to be the randoms blocking the wake ups.

Whats your take on kat or kano type zoning players?

 

[DDTECH]

Just placed two kenshi players back to back, one poss the other kenjusui and spammed the long range grab crap constantly.. what is up with everyone spamming the same old stupid shit man..

 

[I GOT HANDS]

What about Kat? .. Any ways to approach the players of that status?..

I'm pretty good with lao my game has recently taken the next step and honestly i feel like i'm in my own zone when playing now.. I also find most players, dont respect wake ups but it always seems to be the randoms blocking the wake ups.

Whats your take on kat or kano type zoning players?

Good to hear man! It's all about getting comfortable, once you feel like your character is just an extension of your fingertips, you can start overcoming holes in your game much more naturally.

Just placed two kenshi players back to back, one poss the other kenjusui and spammed the long range grab crap constantly.. what is up with everyone spamming the same old stupid shit man..

Netcode makes it safer and harder to react to.
I don't have as much advice here as I was an ex-Sub player so I know how to deal with him, however armored Teleport is your friend against Kenshi. Against Kitana I'm not sure, maybe someone else can help you with that one.

 

[just_2swift]

Against kitana it's rough. Like Hands said armored Tele is your friend. If armored Tele had armor when he comes out of the ground it would help tremendously.

 

[coolwhip]

Pretty sure if you react to the Clone going up and teleport, he doesn't have time to uppercut you. You can definitely do it in reaction to his zoning as well, and if thr spam is what's beating you, you should be able to read that into Teleport for some of the hardest hitting meter less mid screen damage in the game.

Sorry if you don't like that answer. Your other option is get in close and pressure, don't throw out anything punishable and only attack when you have plus frames, that way he doesn't have an opportunity to zone you. His zoning isnt that great either.

If you do get in the situation but refuse to use Teleport for basically it's only use in the game, then basically make sure you abuse the gaps. When he clones, run at him. Cancel the run into low block by the time he has recovered from the Clone into Slide. You have now just completely safely closed a lot of the gap. It's fine to take some chip from him closing this gap, remember he has one of the lowest damage in the game.




The tools are there. It's up to you if you want to learn them.

Wait, are you saying you can punish clone on reaction with a teleport? That's not true, unfortunately. Please don't accuse me of only replying with you to disagree but I'm clearing out the misinformation. From most clone cancels Sub-Zero can even punish Lao's teleport in time.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Wait, are you saying you can punish clone on reaction with a teleport? That's not true, unfortunately. Please don't accuse me of only replying with you to disagree but I'm clearing out the misinformation. From most clone cancels Sub-Zero can even punish Lao's teleport in time.

I didn't say you could punish it with Teleport, there is very few things you can punish with Lao's TP. Lao's TP is used when there is enough negative frames to make too hard (or preferably impossible) to punish on reaction, giving you a mix-up.

 

[DrFolmer]

Kitana can win with her zoning, but Sub Zero lacks damage. Sure he can throw the clone, but he will only resort to that when the cooldown has refreshed. In the meantime, you can either anticipate the iceball (which is a very very slow projectile) or throw a hat at him. Especially when the Sub players are mediocre as you say, it shouldn't be too hard. I have also heard that Kung Lao's teleport can be slow to quite fast depending on when you cast it. For instance, someone explained that, activating it before you hit the ground after a jump will make it somewhat quicker compared to the standard one. Jumping will also make Sub Zero guess if a teleport is coming or it's just a jump.

I play Johnny mostly, and I lose, not because of the clone, but because I cant jump in on him at the right times. Sub Zero wins every time because of Johnny's shitty air attacks. Kung Lao definitely has a lot of tools - it's just about using them properly. Most Kung Lao's have forgot to be patient cause they just button mash that shit lol.

Kitana is a whole other game because she's just gonna spam her fans all day because she will win every trade. Armored teleport is probably the way to go with Kitana as someone previously stated

For Kano, well - Kano doesn't win solely on projectiles. It hits mid, is a fast projectiles, but can still be jumped over. His projectiles don't lead to full combos like Kitana's or Sub Zero's. I have played a lot of cybernetic, and spamming knives don't always work. Kano's tend to get a bit reliant on the knife, throwing it mindlessly in succession, not respecting Kung Lao's dive kicks for instance. Ideally, knives are a conditioning tool, not something to be thrown around recklessly. I have won games om spamming and lost some due to me spamming recklessly. Kung Lao seems to have the tools - patience is the key to the matchups, whether you play Kung Lao, Johnny, Jax or whoever you play.

I don't know much about Lao's other variations, but maybe Buzzsaw can help where Tempest falls short?

You can always main Shinnok, it takes 5 minutes in practice

 

[Braindead]

I'm tired of wrecking and then coming across a medicore subzero player's GM and just hides behind the clone, does the same dumbass combo that every other sub user uses and then thinks they are just awesome because they can pin you in a corner. Oh btw, His Armor hammer will out armor our temps wake up spin.. fyi lol

This amount of salt is delicious but unfortunately not healthy for your blood pressure.

 

[coolwhip]

I didn't say you could punish it with Teleport, there is very few things you can punish with Lao's TP. Lao's TP is used when there is enough negative frames to make too hard (or preferably impossible) to punish on reaction, giving you a mix-up.

But there is no mix-up. Sub can still backdash or even punish in time from most of his clone cancels before Lao can do anything off of his teleport. He can armor to be safe too.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

But there is no mix-up. Sub can still backdash or even punish in time from most of his clone cancels before Lao can do anything off of his teleport. He can armor to be safe too.

He didn't say off Clone cancels. He said when getting zoned, by Sub throwing out Clones and hiding behind them with projectiles.

 

[DDTECH]

Thank you guys for replying with opinions and good ideas. I'll tweak my game as such - good help.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Vs sub you react to iceball tp react to clone tp then the sub will be like fuck I gotta come to him

 

[loogie]

play buzzsaw vs Sub

 

[llabslb]

I always thought characters with non collision based attacks were good at handling sub zero since the attacks go through the ice clone. Kung Lao's strings that involve his hat (JI2, B2 etc) can be an example. With Kitana it's just about patience.