Question - Balanced Takeda Matchup

[ismael4790]

I'm recently struggling with the Takeda matchup (specially shirai ryu) while using balanced Kenshi.

Against good Takedas that know Kenshi's blatant weaknesses, it seems a nightmare to me. He has range, a fast teleport that can be done in the air (most of the times being practically safe), the tornado overhead move safe on block and super safe on whiff that allows him to close the distance FOR FREE, and not to mention, the disgusting htb kunai setups which seem like a lottery xD

With all this, Kenshi seems to be the one taking risks all the time. He loses up close, and he is neither comfortable at long range.

Any ideas or tips for the matchup? I mainly use Balanced, but if you use the other two variations post your suggestions also!

@Pig Of The Hut @Immortal @DarksydeDash @coconutshrimp @Shaikhuzzaman @MrProfDrPepper @Jack Burton @any-Kenshi-main

 

[ismael4790]

Well, I'm gonna give myself a tip to start...

You need to have an answer to his tornado strike, because if not, he has a total free way to close the distance and be at -6 or less. Rising karma is usually slow to antiair Takeda's tornado strike on reaction. It has to be done as a read, and this is risky. But not anymore, as we have the new parry.
If you see the tornado strike coming, parry into RK. If he jumps and does a teleport instead, you will parry that too.

 

[Nexallus]

I'm recently struggling with the Takeda matchup (specially shirai ryu) while using balanced Kenshi.

Against good Takedas that know Kenshi's blatant weaknesses, it seems a nightmare to me. He has range, a fast teleport that can be done in the air (most of the times being practically safe), the tornado overhead move safe on block and super safe on whiff that allows him to close the distance FOR FREE, and not to mention, the disgusting htb kunai setups which seem like a lottery xD

With all this, Kenshi seems to be the one taking risks all the time. He loses up close, and he is neither comfortable at long range.

Any ideas or tips for the matchup? I mainly use Balanced, but if you use the other two variations post your suggestions also!

If a Takeda uses Air Quick Phase, you can actually punish it as long as you aren't recovering from any move. If you're fast enough, you can catch him in the air with a simple 1,1,1 but you have to be ready for it. As for Tornado strike, you can actually whiff punish it by walking back a bit and then advancing with b1 when he lands.

If you're fighting a Takeda using the air quick phase + NJP gimmick, then you should just uppercut right after he teleports if you can't nail the 1,1,1 punish I mentioned above.

Other than that, I think Takeda is just another bad matchup for Kenshi (which makes sense because he's his son ).

 

[coconutshrimp]

Takeda is a real pain in the ass. For the tornado kick, what I'm thinking is when he's at full screen and you see he wants to get in with that, I think Push might be good, or RK. Other than that MAYBE you can parry it. When you see he's doing not sure if you can reflect Kunais, haven't experimented with Takeda that much. He out ranges you so keep that in mind. I think every cancel into Kunai creates a gap so EX Push it to send him fullscreen and be safe. I know that with Lasher his Ridiculous range Jis don't jail like regular jis so you can poke him out. I recommend doing D1 RK or D1 Push. I usually use Possessed or Cage whenever I play against a Takeda. When I get home I'll lab it out more and bring results.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

As a previous member stated before, parry is a nice addition to kenshis game. You just have to make a good read sometimes or else ypu get whiff punished. Use reflect against the tornado strike to eliminate that from their game and this can be done on reaction.

One thing id like to test when i get home is if takedas b21can be parried and instant RK off of the first hit (b2) before the next hit (1) connects.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Takeda is a real pain in the ass. For the tornado kick, what I'm thinking is when he's at full screen and you see he wants to get in with that, I think Push might be good, or RK. Other than that MAYBE you can parry it. When you see he's doing not sure if you can reflect Kunais, haven't experimented with Takeda that much. He out ranges you so keep that in mind. I think every cancel into Kunai creates a gap so EX Push it to send him fullscreen and be safe. I know that with Lasher his Ridiculous range Jis don't jail like regular jis so you can poke him out. I recommend doing D1 RK or D1 Push. I usually use Possessed or Cage whenever I play against a Takeda. When I get home I'll lab it out more and bring results.

I dont think kunai can be parried as they are lows. Parry has specific properties that ive seen.

Jip cant he parried but most OH moves can. Lows cant be parried from my experience

 

[ismael4790]

Good ideas guys!

I was testing and Takeda's only string with a gap is b2,1 2+4. But this gap is no long enough to do Kenshi's parry.
It is also true that throwing a kunai creates a gap, but as Aqueous said, lows can't be parried. So exRK there.

I was not giving a lot of uses to Kenshi's new parry, but I think it is the key to make his bad matchups a bit less bad.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Good ideas guys!

I was testing and Takeda's only string with a gap is b2,1 2+4. But this gap is no long enough to do Kenshi's parry.
It is also true that throwing a kunai creates a gap, but as Aqueous said, lows can't be parried. So exRK there.

I was not giving a lot of uses to Kenshi's new parry, but I think it is the key to make his bad matchups a bit less bad.

In my head though i think you coukd parry the 1st hit of b2 and RK the 1 against takeda. It may just be high hopes. B2 is pretty reactable though. If the frames between b21 arent good enough to RK before the 2nd hit just parry both hits and into armor. If the time between b2 and 1 are good enough though you could parry<RK without armor

 

[Wigy]

I played a pretty good kenshi who was parrying into special all my whip moves that i tried from a distance

 

[ismael4790]

In my head though i think you coukd parry the 1st hit of b2 and RK the 1 against takeda. It may just be high hopes. B2 is pretty reactable though. If the frames between b21 arent good enough to RK before the 2nd hit just parry both hits and into armor. If the time between b2 and 1 are good enough though you could parry<RK without armor

I correct myself. You can parry into rk b2 (*) 1, (*)2+4 at any of the spotted points,even when the first one is not a true gap, because the second hit comes out pretty slowly.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I correct myself. You can parry into rk b2 (*) 1, (*)2+4 at any of the spotted points,even when the first one is not a true gap, because the second hit comes out pretty slowly.

Outstanding. Thank you for testing

 

[Tundra81]

I correct myself. You can parry into rk b2 (*) 1, (*)2+4 at any of the spotted points,even when the first one is not a true gap, because the second hit comes out pretty slowly.

Ismael forgive my Noobness but I can't figure out how to get the Fisticuffs thingy under my avatar, completely off topic I know but I wasn't sure if you help a fellow JC main out.

 

[Ashenar]

Best advice I can give you is...pick another character.

 

[ismael4790]

Ismael forgive my Noobness but I can't figure out how to get the Fisticuffs thingy under my avatar, completely off topic I know but I wasn't sure if you help a fellow JC main out.

You just have to put the cursor just behind your image, and the words "mood chooser" will appear. Then you can choose the best mood in the world, Fisticuffs xD

Best advice I can give you is...pick another character.

Yeah, I know I'm masochist haha. But I love Balanced Kenshi.

 

[Tundra81]

You just have to put the cursor just behind your image, and the words "mood chooser" will appear. Then you can choose the best mood in the world, Fisticuffs xD

Got It!! Thanks dude. I'm in a much better mood now!!

 

[coconutshrimp]

Jip cant he parried but most OH moves can.

Yeah you can't parry the jis for any character but Lasher jump normals DON'T jail so at least Kenshi has that going for him. again D1 EX SC imo is best for this because if they block both D1 EX SC you're -2 with push back and if he gets hit, it's back to full screen.

 

[coconutshrimp]

I dont think kunai can be parried as they are lows

Also Kenshi can't PARRY lows. He can however REFLECT low projectiles like Kang's low fireballs and and Piercing's low sai. I'm pretty sure he can reflect his Kunai.

 

[Wigy]

Also Kenshi can't PARRY lows. He can however REFLECT low projectiles like Kang's low fireballs and and Piercing's low sai. I'm pretty sure he can reflect his Kunai.

im 99% sure it counts as a physical object and not a projectile.

 

[coconutshrimp]

im 99% sure it counts as a physical object and not a projectile.

Takeda's overhead whips are physical objects but you can parry those.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Takeda's overhead whips are physical objects but you can parry those.

I think he means like HQT lasers. Theyre a projectile but reflect did nothing against them. I cant speak on if this has changed since the actual kp2 patch.

 

[Wigy]

Takeda's overhead whips are physical objects but you can parry those.

I was meaning like kotals sword

 

[ismael4790]

Also Kenshi can't PARRY lows. He can however REFLECT low projectiles like Kang's low fireballs and and Piercing's low sai. I'm pretty sure he can reflect his Kunai.

He can't reflect it, sadly. It does't make any sense since it works as a projectile.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Well, I'm gonna give myself a tip to start...

You need to have an answer to his tornado strike, because if not, he has a total free way to close the distance and be at -6 or less. Rising karma is usually slow to antiair Takeda's tornado strike on reaction. It has to be done as a read, and this is risky. But not anymore, as we have the new parry.
If you see the tornado strike coming, parry into RK. If he jumps and does a teleport instead, you will parry that too.

Tornado kick is actually really easy to counter, just jip him while he is in the air on reaction. The move have no priority at all

 

[ismael4790]

Tornado kick is actually really easy to counter, just jip him while he is in the air on reaction. The move have no priority at all

The thing is he can choose where to fall (close, medium and far), and we shouldn't be jumping around when he has that teleport that confirms into combo leading to possible htb situation... I think the new parry might be the best way to counter this move since you don't have to leave the ground, and if you mistake and he does a teleport instead it doesn't matter since the parry also parries things that hit you from behind.

It is not the best thing in the world, but this parry (with better startup also, 7 frames is godlike) helps him a bit in his bad matchups. Same with mileena for example. Prepatch you had to be really scared of reflecting projectiles because it was almost a read cause of the slow startup and you could eat a teleport if you read wrong. Now you can reflect both sais and teleport.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

The thing is he can choose where to fall (close, medium and far), and we shouldn't be jumping around when he has that teleport that confirms into combo leading to possible htb situation... I think the new parry might be the best way to counter this move since you don't have to leave the ground, and if you mistake and he does a teleport instead it doesn't matter since the parry also parries things that hit you from behind.

It is not the best thing in the world, but this parry (with better startup also, 7 frames is godlike) helps him a bit in his bad matchups. Same with mileena for example. Prepatch you had to be really scared of reflecting projectiles because it was almost a read cause of the slow startup and you could eat a teleport if you read wrong. Now you can reflect both sais and teleport.

The thing with tornado kick though. Is that it is reactable. You can react jip them when they tornado kick, even if they are just about to touch the ground you will win the trade since tornado kick has no priority what-so-ever.