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Question Switching from reptile (or maybe using Subby as a "Sideboard")....advice?

R

retic

Noob
so far, been messing around with the "3 ninjas"; Rocky, Colt and Tomtom...I mean Reptile, Subby and Scorp :p

In any event, I'm interested in stepping up my Subby game. So far, I know 22 is a good string and slide is a good tool for those who love jumping back and at least I don't have to gnash my teeth maseting comboes similar to reptile's combos involving njp.

Just a few q's:

1) what are his good "footsies"? is f4 a good footsie?

2) i admit having bad MU's against cyrax, KL and kitana as reptile. How would subby fare against these 3?

3) at least i could time a dash to punish careless rushers; how does subby deal with them outside of clone?

thanks in advanced :)
 
KOA CAPONE

KOA CAPONE

KING OF kINGS
i play both /both gots there diff they both can be rush down characters 22 sub 312 slide or forceball or acid hand or his sweep both good
 
K

Kombo

Noob
Same here bro. I used to main Reptile and used Sub as an alt but now its all Sub Zero.

1) You're basic footsies are d3 and d4 especially d4 because it can cancel into ice clone which works wonders especially in the corner. f4 is good when you know your opponent is going to block low so a sweep follwed up by a f4 ice ball leads into multiple combo situations for sub zero.

2) KL isn't really much of a problem for Sub Zero as long as you stay in his face, bait and punish his spins, Same with Cyrax rush him down. Kitana is a bitch for all charecters. So dash block her fans to get in on that bitch and stay in. If you can put and ice clone in the air to prevent her from escaping with square boost.

3) You really shouldn't be doing anything besides ice clone. But don't just hide behind it use it as a barrier and 22 all day.

Thats all I know for right now. I'm not the best Sub player but Tom Brady definitely is. His Sub Zero is the Sub Zero that all Sub Zeros strive to become. Look him up on youtube and watch some of his matches. You'll be glad you did it will really improve your game.

Also watch this... http://www.justin.tv/s1lent1/b/289790295 Its a great start.


Some great tutorials
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?6382-Sub-Zero-tutorial-everything-you-need-to-know-by-SGLeroy
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?6204-Good-Tutorial-Video-for-Beginning-Sub-Zeros
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Noob
retic said:
so far, been messing around with the "3 ninjas"; Rocky, Colt and Tomtom...I mean Reptile, Subby and Scorp :p

In any event, I'm interested in stepping up my Subby game. So far, I know 22 is a good string and slide is a good tool for those who love jumping back and at least I don't have to gnash my teeth maseting comboes similar to reptile's combos involving njp.

Just a few q's:

1) what are his good "footsies"? is f4 a good footsie?

2) i admit having bad MU's against cyrax, KL and kitana as reptile. How would subby fare against these 3?

3) at least i could time a dash to punish careless rushers; how does subby deal with them outside of clone?

thanks in advanced :)
Click to expand...
1)Both his d3 and d4 are good footsies, espicially d4 cause when you knock down your opponent, d4 prevents them for doin wake up calls. Also, it is good for mixin up, cause when your opponet is down, d3 then d4 will automatically stand them up. Want to 1st do d3, then d4

2)Sub vs kitana, sub will most of the times win. Now cyrax and Kl vs sub are probably sub hardest match ups. It becomes more to you can adjust and read better than opponent. Both of them got better tools than sub does, but doesnt mean it is impossible to win.

3) Ice clones is basically sub way to punish rushers. You can always baited them and mixin them up. Sub's 2,2 is godlike. What i like about sub is his ability to link combos with any special.
 
salvificblood

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Rushdown character, other than Kung Lao, have very few ways around Sub-Zero's ice clone zoning. What a lot of them will try to do is establish a life lead against you and then make you come to them. What you want to do is put your iceball on the screen to bait out a projectile (I catch Kang players with this all the time now), and use the clone to catch jump ins and to prevent them from pressuring. What you'll find is that once you have the life lead, they'll start getting really close to your ice clone so that when it disappears they can make up as much ground on you as possible. It's extremely annoying for your opponent to have to wait out a clone only to be faced with another one as soon as they try to close in on you. What you can do, if they're not crouch blocking, after throwing so many iceballs is start mixing them up with the odd slide and approaching your own clone with 22 pressure, d4's, sweeps, and throws. One of the best things I've found against rushdown characters who just stand there blocking beside your clone is to learn the time on your own ice clone and right as it's about to disappear do 224, ice clone. The next ice clone should come out right about where you had the other one. It's really a massive baiting game with Sub.

Sub's toughest matchups, in my opinion, are Kung Lao, Ermac, Kitana and obviously Skarlet. Cyrax is tough for everybody at the minute because if he catches you in a net, you're going to lose all your health in one shot but he's not actually Sub's toughest matchup without those ridiculous resets.

I only use f4 as a part of certain setups. For instance, against characters without great wakeup options what I do is slide or sweep them on their wakeup every now and then to commit them to crouch block, and then I'll go ahead and f4, freeze, or I'll just grab them. f4, freeze is also really good off blocked teleports, I believe, although I don't usually wait for them to land, I just 22, freeze, b12212, slide in most cases.
 
N

Nick T.

Noob
The one thing about Sub I can't stress enough is that it's all about gaining ice momentum. Make sure your ice ball is on screen first or at least timed to trade in favor of you in projectile wars. Thing is that ice ball is used differently in just about every match, so finding similarities between matchups will help a lot.

Cyrax match is all about maintaining your mid range. You wanna be able to react to net/bomb with a jump in 2. Also, from this range you can be threatening with 22/224(the 4 is a good poke and surprisingly comes out fast. Full screen range is a little difficult because you have to maintain pressure while looking out for nets and teleports. So those things eliminate your ice ball option. It really depends on the pace of the match.

Kitana match isn't so much bad as it is SLOW. You have to learn to not jump in this match(I know you MK players love jumping lol). Take this match very very slow, and learn to crouch a lot, you're going to need it. This match I feel is played in 2 phases, the crouch phase and the standing phase. Crouch phase is for safety and when you wanna get in(dash in low 3/4) standing phase is when you wanna throw the occasional ice ball and punish IAF from mid range with slide. At this point once you get a lead you wanna be careful. I just crouch all day and wait. I have 89 seconds, I don't give a fuck. Watch how the Kitana throws fans and if they throw them correctly, and maintain mid ranges for walking and baiting pokes.

Reptile match is about keeping Reptile in one spot(preferably the corner), or keeping him pinned in a position(crouch blocking, guessing when to move in etc.). There are a couple of things that can happen in this match and from different ranges. From far away, Reptile can make it a bitch for you to throw ice shots. You wanna watch HOW they throw projectiles out and punish accordingly. Also you're going to wanna use EX ice shot vs all acid balls. You can see the acid ball on the screen and still land ex ice shot. You can't do that with acid spit. With acid spit you wanna slide on anticipation, not reaction(this is honestly the only issue with this match).
From mid range you wanna watch for when to jump in, but the mixup is that you can get hit with EX acid ball for free vs your jump. So again, watch for the acid ball and ex ice shot, free combo, even if you get hit. Throw out clones from this range also, this is all you need.
So given the fact that Sub can visually react to acid balls and still get a free combo even on hit, damage output, clones, and ice ball momentum, I feel this match is in Subs favor. The only way Sub loses this match is if he starts guessing acid balls or spit from far away, because you start guess jumping/slide/ex ice balling, and it just turns into a mess. The advantage comes from the visual cue of the acid ball, it eliminates the guessing.

There are a bunch of little nuances with these matches, but that's all footsies and spacing and I'm not here to spoonfeed. I'm just here to give a general idea.
 
Lyuben

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Why has no one mentioned that 22 against kitana stops her mid-air with her square boost thing? Its a great tactic. plus if done right, it can even stop EX fan float. I have done that several times by just abusing 22 against Kitana. It keeps her in her place!
 
Mechacide

Mechacide

Noob
Lyuben said:
Obviously. If you do something to excess you will suck. Its a tool for constant pressure, not spamming.
Click to expand...
I don't see how you can really use 2,2 for pressure, seen as it's -F on block. It's good for corner pressure when there's a Clone preventing retaliation, but in the open I'd rather use 2,1 for pressure.
 
Lyuben

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Mechacide said:
I don't see how you can really use 2,2 for pressure, seen as it's -F on block. It's good for corner pressure when there's a Clone preventing retaliation, but in the open I'd rather use 2,1 for pressure.
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It is so quick that it stops a lot of specials and combos that an opponent is trying to use. It stops jumping over. Does not knock em down so no wake up.
 
Mechacide

Mechacide

Noob
Lyuben said:
It is so quick that it stops a lot of specials and combos that an opponent is trying to use. It stops jumping over. Does not knock em down so no wake up.
Click to expand...
That's not what pressure is. It doesn't even give much advantage on hit. Pretty sure the opp could d+1_d+3_d+4 you if you tried to follow-up with pressure afterwards.

2,2 is an amazing normal, don't get me wrong, it's just that constant pressure isn't one of its strengths (in my opinion).
 
R

retic

Noob
learned the hardway that 22 will not stop sindel's wake up (that thing that sorta mimics sonya's cartwheel). meh. played subby almost exclusively last night. one sindel player was good; had to resort to switching to my main (reptile) to win easily. After a few games, I could beat his sindel as subby but it was an uphill battle...that, or I'm still used to reptile's playing style.

Oh yeah....got completely pwned by a KL player; barely had the chance to move. I'm still in my "baby steps" as subby and also got whupped by a raiden player. ugh.

Good thing i don't give a damn about my w/l ratio online :p
 
Cat

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
retic said:
learned the hardway that 22 will not stop sindel's wake up (that thing that sorta mimics sonya's cartwheel). meh. played subby almost exclusively last night. one sindel player was good; had to resort to switching to my main (reptile) to win easily. After a few games, I could beat his sindel as subby but it was an uphill battle...that, or I'm still used to reptile's playing style.

Oh yeah....got completely pwned by a KL player; barely had the chance to move. I'm still in my "baby steps" as subby and also got whupped by a raiden player. ugh.

Good thing i don't give a damn about my w/l ratio online :p
Click to expand...
Subs overhead beats sindels wake up kick wheel thing easy.
 
R

retic

Noob
day 2 of using subby almost exclusively.

Number of times opponents rage quitted: 3.

Number of times given "0 respect' in KOTH: lost count

Never experienced this when playing as reptile. :p

thanks for advice guys. keep it up. i may be on my way to switching over to subby and using reptile as a Sideboard instead. ;)
 
salvificblood

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
retic said:
day 2 of using subby almost exclusively.

Number of times opponents rage quitted: 3.

Number of times given "0 respect' in KOTH: lost count

Never experienced this when playing as reptile. :p

thanks for advice guys. keep it up. i may be on my way to switching over to subby and using reptile as a Sideboard instead. ;)
Click to expand...

Lol. I've lost count of how many: your opponent has left the game, messages I've seen.

In KOTH I used to get 10's just by doing the xray combos. They see that and they're usually amazed, even if you played terribly for the rest of the fight, lol.
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Noob
retic said:
day 2 of using subby almost exclusively.

Number of times opponents rage quitted: 3.

Number of times given "0 respect' in KOTH: lost count

Never experienced this when playing as reptile. :p

thanks for advice guys. keep it up. i may be on my way to switching over to subby and using reptile as a Sideboard instead. ;)
Click to expand...
I been playin sub since the demo came out
So yeah, i ve been hating since day one but now seems like if you play sub not mattering if you are good or bad with him, People desperately try to counterpick you and if they lose they talk smack about you. As a sub player you will get daily hate mail, maybe something like i got " You sissified gameplay is no fun" lol it made my day.
 
R

retic

Noob
i dont get it tho....

Sub Zero is not a "HurDur! I press this button and I win! DErp! Derp!" character....very far from it. I learned (the hard way again....hahaha) to stop abusing the slide as a wake up tool and simply get up without doign anything. Oh well. :p
 
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