Subzero

[jjdejong0]

Hey guys I found myself having to switch to reptile or scorpion when im fighting against subzero. It seems a bad matchup for Cage so was just checking if anyone got some tips or strategies for taking down SZ with Cage.

 

[Marcus]

Johnny Cage is way way faster than Sub-zero, take advantage of that. But be careful of the baits. A good Sub player likes to zone it out. What you wanna do is throw fireballs when he is hiding behind the ice clones. If he wants to hide behind the ice clones, let him... then throw out ridicuolous amounts of fireballs his way.

If it pisses him off, hell be slowly approaching you, thats where you want to rush him and go for the combos. A good shadow kick will take him down then rush him for another combo.. try to keep him in the corner too.

Dont forget to block low since he can always slide out of pressure.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

sub is the worst match for johnny cage and one of the worst match up in the game this match up is so bad that a noob sub player
will give a very hard time to a good johnny cage lol. however you can win you just are going to have to work very hard for your win

 

[Zebster]

If he wants to hide behind the ice clones, let him... then throw out ridicuolous amounts of fireballs his way.

I don't know about that, he can easily throw an ice ball to trade and that's basically 30% gone right there from a trade. I'd suggest dashblocking to break through the ice clone, and duck blocking while doing it, because he'll try to slide to catch you off guard.

 

[Marcus]

I don't know about that, he can easily throw an ice ball to trade and that's basically 30% gone right there from a trade. I'd suggest dashblocking to break through the ice clone, and duck blocking while doing it, because he'll try to slide to catch you off guard.

What was i thinking. Yea, ignore what I said about throwing fireballs when he's behind the ice clone.

Its gonna be hard rushing him down so I think what you can do is to bait him into sliding then duckblock as quick as you can. Go for the combo after that.

 

[chrisofrays]

In this matchup you need to lame him out. Get a life lead and make him come to you. his ice balls don't deal chip damage so he will need to go on the offensive.

 

[dope619]

In this matchup you need to lame him out. Get a life lead and make him come to you. his ice balls don't deal chip damage so he will need to go on the offensive.

yup good aadvice, get a life lead, wait for him, and once you get on him, dont get off.. he can wake up slide = punish; he cant wake up ice clone if youre on top of him.

 

[FatalTragedy]

I think getting the life lead is the focus of the thread, haha. I main Kung Lao and Cage, two rushdown characters that have trouble getting close to Subs. I always opt to play it safe and punish their impatience. I hate turtling but some match-ups necessitate it.

 

[Durango]

Couple of quick snippets.

1. Sub-Zero's love to Ice Clone. Punish with a low fireball.
2. You can expect them to slide after 1 or 2 low fireballs. If you see it coming, low block. Don't use an F4 because they have enough time to block it upon recovery. Do an F1 or 2 1 F2 combo and go from there.
3. Uppercuts! Impatient Sub-Zero players will attempt a jump-in to do a 2 2 freeze. Keep them off of you!

Hard as it is to believe, this is probably better played as a zoning game. Use your fireballs as much as you can and punish their slides for massive damage.

 

[MagiCurtains]

Couple of quick snippets.

1. Sub-Zero's love to Ice Clone. Punish with a low fireball.
2. You can expect them to slide after 1 or 2 low fireballs. If you see it coming, low block. Don't use an F4 because they have enough time to block it upon recovery. Do an F1 or 2 1 F2 combo and go from there.
3. Uppercuts! Impatient Sub-Zero players will attempt a jump-in to do a 2 2 freeze. Keep them off of you!

Hard as it is to believe, this is probably better played as a zoning game. Use your fireballs as much as you can and punish their slides for massive damage.

Currently I'm attending CEO where I got the chance to play Tom Brady's Subzero in his warm up casuals. I lost as expected and it was 2-1 so I don't particularly feel bad. He did help out a lot when I asked him for advice. Not before telling me I shouldn't even pick Johnny Cage against Sub-zero lol.
Anyway, he said that Subzero's CAN slide on reaction on all of Johnny's force balls(it's simply too slow to recover at the slide distance). What I've tried to do was slowly move Subzero towards the corner which seemed to be a really patient game. One thing you should be aware of however. You only get a few chances to really get in on subzero. When it does happen, make sure to end your combos with nut punch or he WILL get away.

 

[evansgambit]

Hard as it is to believe, this is probably better played as a zoning game. Use your fireballs as much as you can and punish their slides for massive damage.

I have to disagree with you here. Cage's projectiles are just too slow on startup and recovery, to zone. Sub Zero can slide on reaction to both the normal and enhanced versions. Not to mention, you lose when he trades his freeze with your projectile.

You have to dash block in, and be mindful of occassional slide. The only way you can win is by rushing him down up close.

Be cautious on his wakeup, if he likes to wake up ice clone.

 

[salvificblood]

I have to disagree with you here. Cage's projectiles are just too slow on startup and recovery, to zone. Sub Zero can slide on reaction to both the normal and enhanced versions. Not to mention, you lose when he trades his freeze with your projectile.

You have to dash block in, and be mindful of occassional slide. The only way you can win is by rushing him down up close.

Be cautious on his wakeup, if he likes to wake up ice clone.

You're right. You cannot beat Sub-Zero with your fireballs. Sub wins the trade every time and gets a free combo. From a Sub-Zero point of view, I keep Johnny out with the ice clone and iceball. As Magicurtains said, you want to try and make the Sub-Zero player back himself into a corner. With Johnny's new armour, you should also have enough meter by that point to possibly get in on him. You cannot be impatient against Sub. His projectiles don't chip you out so you can be careful in your approach. It's rough but not unwinnable.

 

[Cr1ms0n]

you lose game 1 then change characters.

 

[Slaughterhome]

The biggest and best advice that I have when playing against SZ is to be patient. I know this is the complete opposite of Cage's strategy, but it's what you have to do. I usually try to get my opponent to corner himself by dash blocking and crouching right after. The SZ will usually throw clones and balls at you but as long as you're paying attention, you'll be fine. Usually the SZ will panic and throw out a slide when they near the corner, but that's why you've been blocking low the whole time. If and when they slide you should be able to get an easy punish. Continue this until you get them in to the corner, then just CAGE them. Most SZ's will try to wake up slide, so be prepared for this and try to bait it out as much as you can. I try to avoid fireballs in this match up because it is way to easy for SZ to punish as he can slide on reaction. If you just remain patient and take baby steps in the match up, you can get by relatively easy.

 

[Dark_Rob]

The biggest and best advice that I have when playing against SZ is to be patient. I know this is the complete opposite of Cage's strategy, but it's what you have to do. I usually try to get my opponent to corner himself by dash blocking and crouching right after. The SZ will usually throw clones and balls at you but as long as you're paying attention, you'll be fine. Usually the SZ will panic and throw out a slide when they near the corner, but that's why you've been blocking low the whole time. If and when they slide you should be able to get an easy punish. Continue this until you get them in to the corner, then just CAGE them. Most SZ's will try to wake up slide, so be prepared for this and try to bait it out as much as you can. I try to avoid fireballs in this match up because it is way to easy for SZ to punish as he can slide on reaction. If you just remain patient and take baby steps in the match up, you can relatively easy.

This is really solid advice. In general this is the only way Johnny Cage can beat Subzero. Ive played this match a thousand times against Reo's Cage and this is always his strategy midscreen.

A few other tricks. Midscreen stay away from the clone, but not to far away so that Sub can advance and drop another clone(thereby advancing his position and keeping him out of the corner) You want to stay out of 2,2 and F+4 range so Sub can not poke at you from behind the clone. Hang back and do TONS of nut punches to build meter. Meter is Cage's key to victory in this matchup. Once you have meter and have backed sub into the corner EX shadow kick is your way in. Sub has to clone to keep Cage out, he HAS to. Look for it and blast through it. Now your on him in the corner and digging in that ass.
Also if you build up enough meter and get xray and Sub is hanging around his clone walk right up to it and xray the clone, even if Sub is blocking hes gonna eat it. Remember meter,meter,meter.....and patience. Thats how Cage wins this.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This is really solid advice. In general this is the only way Johnny Cage can beat Subzero. Ive played this match a thousand times against Reo's Cage and this is always his strategy midscreen.

A few other tricks. Midscreen stay away from the clone, but not to far away so that Sub can advance and drop another clone(thereby advancing his position and keeping him out of the corner) You want to stay out of 2,2 and F+4 range so Sub can not poke at you from behind the clone. Hang back and do TONS of nut punches to build meter. Meter is Cage's key to victory in this matchup. Once you have meter and have backed sub into the corner EX shadow kick is your way in. Sub has to clone to keep Cage out, he HAS to. Look for it and blast through it. Now your on him in the corner and digging in that ass.
Also if you build up enough meter and get xray and Sub is hanging around his clone walk right up to it and xray the clone, even if Sub is blocking hes gonna eat it. Remember meter,meter,meter.....and patience. Thats how Cage wins this.

Xray the clone... does his Xray count the clone as an "attack"... this is interesting. Rob your prolly the most qualified to answer... but have you ever tried to "out-offense" Cage for life lead at periodic times? I know Cage is stupid good up close but have you done it to throw REO or anyone off his game for just a brief moment?
BTW, throwing fireballs is a BAD idea when he is standing behind clones, it can be punished by slide and traded with freeze. Nut punch is perfect.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Xray the clone... does his Xray count the clone as an "attack"... this is interesting. Rob your prolly the most qualified to answer... but have you ever tried to "out-offense" Cage for life lead at periodic times? I know Cage is stupid good up close but have you done it to throw REO or anyone off his game for just a brief moment?
BTW, throwing fireballs is a BAD idea when he is standing behind clones, it can be punished by slide and traded with freeze. Nut punch is perfect.

Yes his xray counts the clone as an attack, however Sub must be near the clone for it to work. If he is to far away Cage will instead be frozen which is why I said do it when hes near the clone. To get Sub to want to be near the clone you must get near the clone. Sub feels safe behind his clone and when you are close enough to it he will want to poke at you from behind the clone. This is when you can xray the clone and get him.

If I have the life lead I will never go after Johnny Cage. I want no part of him close quarters. Id much rather frusterate him and run the clock down. If Cage has the life lead then I have little choice dont I? Approach him carefully and block alot on your way in, you dont want to eat a shadow kick and be thrown back across the screen. If he sees you blocking alot hes much less likely to throw out a random shadow kick since they are punished by full combo on block. Sub still needs to clone but you have to link it off of D+3/D+4 or 2,2,4 as you get near him. Everytime Sub gets a clone off he draws a line on the screen that Cage cannot pass without blowing meter.(And believe it or not a smart Cage will not waste his meter on this midscreen as he gets very little from it.) Ideally Sub wants to keep this up until Cage is in the corner where he can pressure from behind the clone with 2,2 mixups F+4 and throws.

Cage and Sub both want to do the same thing in this matchup. Get the other guy in the corner. They go about it differently but the objective is the same. Cage wants him in the corner so he can use EX shadow kick to get by clone/ice ball and actually get a pressure situation out of it. Sub wants to put Cage(and most everyone else) in the corner because the clone locks you in and Sub can pressure safely. Sub and Cage are both stupid good in the corner.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Sometimes I don't feel like Sub-Zero is Johnny Cage's worst match up..

Simply because of Sub-Zero's speed, you can easily be patient and punish.

Say if they do the ice clone + freeze ball zoning.

Johnny cage can do his dick punch each freeze coming his way, which builds meter. And when I get close to all sub-zeros, I just kind of poke them, causing them to either use a breaker or an ex move, Other wise he can only attempt to jump out of the fast attacks. Theres some other points, I can never full string out my thoughts on text...

 

[Marvaz]

As wierd as it it sounds i main sub zero and johnny cage lol. I have yet to find a real good sub that can take out my jc, but like dark rob said, having meter is a must for jc to win this match. Sometimes when ill have a life lead over a sub player ill just keep away from him the whole match by dashing back, forward jumping, etc. lol It annoys the hell out of the player and they rage quit lol.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I main them as well. A good Sub-Zero will know when to place the ice clone rather than just throw it out whenever.

 

[evansgambit]

I had my first outing with an alright sub zero recently. And here is what I learnt.

It's good to know the proper spacing or timing in order to dash-block the ice clones. I can only consistently dash-block when clones are about 2 steps away, which is almost an instant dash-block. However, a good sub zero won't allow you to dash-block his clones for free. He'll be backing up his clones 100%. Usually if you block his BP, BP, BK string, they usually clone at this point. I think if your quick enough, you can dash-block the clones, as Sub Zero hops away a bit. Your dash-blocking better be spot on, otherwise you eat big damage.

This a matchup where, you can't be be too aggressive or reckless during your rush down. All block strings have to make contact. Sub zero can clone in response to meaty block strings or jumping attacks on his wake up, if your too far away. Within about 1 step distance, when both character's arms are almost touching, is when Sub Zero clones break on creation - which is pretty close. If he's just outside this short range, his clones activate per usual. If Cage's block string pushes Sub Zero too far back, he'll be able to clone while you begin a new string. So watch out.

When the clones come out, I actually feel more comfortable. As I know for sure, I won't eat another surprise clone into a big damaging combo. I pretty much stand a bit just away from the clones, trying to stand my ground, blocking low in anticipation of Sub Zero's slide, and getting ready to neutral jump on reaction to any jumping attack or freeze. Often sub zero will try to attack you, from behind his clones, with his far reaching strings. This is a great time if you have X-Ray stocked and ready to go. It's like having the clone on screen, green lights Sub Zero to go on the offence. If you have 1 bar of meter, you can use the extended range and invincibility of the enhanced nut punch, much like the X-Ray, to plow through Sub Zero's strings, from behind the clone, and go on the counter attack.

If you notice Sub zero is still pressuring around the the 4.5 second mark, you can time a jumping attack to hit him, just as the clone disappears, and then proceed into a block string. So you need to make the jump while the clone is still active. I'd use this sparingly, and only if Sub Zero's leaves himself vulnerable.

Sub Zero's slide is probably his worst move. It's an easy 30% punish with B+FK pop up launcer if you manage to bait it out, either on wake up, during his block strings, or sparingly using projectiles to give him a reason to use slide. At this point I haven't fully mastered my nut punch combos yet - a bit inconsistent with the dash, F+FK, nut punch. But that is pretty much the key to winning the match up, giving you a chance to stay on him.

Have to check out some more vids to see how this match up plays.