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Match-Up Discussion - Sub-Zero Sub Zero matchup thread

Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
I see this discussion isn't here yet so let's get it started for the Subs of the world.

Since there are variations in this game, please factor in that you could change to another variation to deal with something. Also try to be specific about which variation Sub has trouble or might excel against a specific opponent variation.

I'm especially curious to know what we all think Grandmaster Sub Zero's hardships and easy victories might be. Example: Johnny Cage is still free to clone.
 
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Deezxnutz

Deezxnutz

Noob
It could just be my lack of knowledge on Takeda but as GM Sub I have issues fighting him in his Shinrai Ryu variation. I cannot stay outside his B2, 1 range because he'll toss kunais and when I am in that range I gotta be extra cautious on my Clone placement or when I shoot an Iceball due to Spear/Air Spear. Some insight would be appreciated
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Yeah I'd like to know which characters did you have problems playing against so far?
Dragon fire Liu Kang?
 
xXstealthflameXx

xXstealthflameXx

Finding a Main
Circus said:
to early to discuss matchup specifics....? Seriously?

I'm not asking for a matchup chart here. This is to brain storm matchups and find solutions to them. Im going to edit the OP in case it misleads someone else.
Click to expand...
Oh ok, Sorry for assuming a chart was incoming
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
This thread has been kind of dead. Right now I think that Sub-Zero struggles against Takeda and Dvorah. I think he does really well against Sonya, Liu Kang, and Kung Jin right now.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
RM Truth said:
This thread has been kind of dead. Right now I think that Sub-Zero struggles against Takeda and Dvorah. I think he does really well against Sonya, Liu Kang, and Kung Jin right now.
Click to expand...
Which Sub-Zero variation?
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Fought against Kenshi. He can be pretty tough sometimes since he can attack you full screen and you can't always throw Ice Balls or Slide at him to get him to stop. Plus you no longer have dash-block, he can build meter quickly, and use his armor and mid-ranged specials to keep you off of him.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
RM Truth said:
Sorry. Grandmaster.
Click to expand...
I'm interested to know why you think he does well against Liu Kang. I played with Unbreakable against Dragon Fire a few times and I struggled a lot. I don't know all Liu Kang's stuff yet and I was mis-timing my parry a lot, so I know that was a part of the reason.
Does the ice clone work well against low fireballs zoning?
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Braindead said:
I'm interested to know why you think he does well against Liu Kang. I played with Unbreakable against Dragon Fire a few times and I struggled a lot. I don't know all Liu Kang's stuff yet and I was mis-timing my parry a lot, so I know that was a part of the reason.
Does the ice clone work well against low fireballs zoning?
Click to expand...
Clone keeps his fireballs in check, and he has to block an ice ball right afterwards. If he times his fireball wrong, he's going to eat full combo. That with the fact we control the footsie game because of clone makes it hard to approach. He can risk armoring through clone, but all of those options can be crouched and full combo punished. The only real issue is when he gets his game going as we can't armor through his standing reset with bicycle kick, and B12 can break our EX slide, but most characters have that problem.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
RM Truth said:
Clone keeps his fireballs in check, and he has to block an ice ball right afterwards. If he times his fireball wrong, he's going to eat full combo. That with the fact we control the footsie game because of clone makes it hard to approach. He can risk armoring through clone, but all of those options can be crouched and full combo punished. The only real issue is when he gets his game going as we can't armor through his standing reset with bicycle kick, and B12 can break our EX slide, but most characters have that problem.
Click to expand...
It's like the polar opposite of Unbreakable. Sub-Zero has trouble getting in and controlling the space, but Liu Kang loses his pressure due to parry.
 
R

Raptor82

Noob
The biggest problems as GM Sub I think I had with skilled Kung Lao and balanced Kenshi who kept spamming his attacks which go through clone and push you away. I defeated that Kenshi but it was hard grind. Kung Lao just rolled over me.
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Raptor82 said:
The biggest problems as GM Sub I think I had with skilled Kung Lao and balanced Kenshi who kept spamming his attacks which go through clone and push you away. I defeated that Kenshi but it was hard grind. Kung Lao just rolled over me.
Click to expand...
The thing to note about Kenshi is a lot of his stuff is punished by Slide from most ranges. I know in Possessed at least his BF3 is punished by all ranges slide hits in. It's that negative. I don't really know about Kung Lao. Haven't fought one yet, but he doesn't have a low launcher so it's pretty hard for him to open you up.
 
Houndovhell

Houndovhell

Subby-Z is my Main Man, the Man that I Main
I'm feeling a lot of the same bad matchups from mk9. Scorpion has troubles, balanced kenshi gives me pain, any Liu Kang variant is just hell cause super zoning and armor on cross screen face boot xD haven't done too much yet, still can't find anyone willing to play on xb1 with me :p would definitely like to help this thread out though. I'm good with problem solving. :)
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Houndovhell said:
I'm feeling a lot of the same bad matchups from mk9. Scorpion has troubles, balanced kenshi gives me pain, any Liu Kang variant is just hell cause super zoning and armor on cross screen face boot xD haven't done too much yet, still can't find anyone willing to play on xb1 with me :p would definitely like to help this thread out though. I'm good with problem solving. :)
Click to expand...
I explained a little bit on how to deal with Kang and Kenshi above. As for Scorpion, I find that it's pretty hard for him to play footsies with you because B2, D4, and clone(if you're in GM) are stronger than a lot of his options. Since no version of teleport is safe to throw out, Scorpion is always taking risks to get in on you. He has to resort to spending stamina on fake teleport and try to open you up, which if you read it, you can just blow it up. Inferno might provide some good options for him, but I'd have to do some more testing.
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Deezxnutz said:
Lao's low hat is -6 on block so he doesn't get guaranteed pressure
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He's talking about on hit, but I'm pretty sure that low hat on hit pushes you far away enough that he has to run up, and you could probably poke out.
 
Demon_0

Demon_0

RIP Akira Toriyama
The only two matchups I feel are strong enough for Grandmaster are Inferno Scorpion and Thundergod Raiden, so far. They're not necessarily stronger I'd say but on par and give me most trouble. A decent Inferno player makes the clone pretty much useless while Thundergod has combos that easily go through it
 
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