Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

[Lokheit]

@Gilbagz

i did notice those properties on F1,2,2 i just hadnt messed with it enough. also, i thought 1,1 and the other was safe on block? its not?

i think if we were just at a slight advantage on hit for F4,2,grab it would be good enough. but thats me.

1 is safe 1,1 is safe but is -4 allowing for certain punishers, 1,1,1 (added sword) is safe again, though that string seems to have execution problems if you don't press the buttons fast enough.

I've been working in the lab with F1,2,2 too and also found how much you can wait to to use the final hit on the string which is really nice as it's a launcher that allows you to prevent taking risks by not pressing it if the opponent blocks. F1,2 is absolutely safe and has a lot of reach (even if you lose some start up frames by whiffing the first hit, unlike other Sub-Zero tools with reach that make him charge, this one is safer if the opponent is attacking too as the sword is not your vulenrable body) so F122 in my opinion is a tool that will be very present if Cryomancer ends up evolving into something a bit more competitive.

I agree, that would be a game changer from Cryo. It would be nice if his other unique strings served more purpose as well. And if air hammer wasn't useless.

I think a bigger game changer would be if the regular hammer was cancelable so you could read if your opponent is blocking high to use a slide instead. I like that F421+3 leaves the opponent standing as I don't like guessing wake up attacks, for me the problem in this variation is more about having the tools to make the opponent respect you like GM and UB, and a slow overhead launcher that can be canceled into a low poke could be a great start.

 

[Gilbagz]

@Gilbagz

i did notice those properties on F1,2,2 i just hadnt messed with it enough. also, i thought 1,1 and the other was safe on block? its not?

i think if we were just at a slight advantage on hit for F4,2,grab it would be good enough. but thats me.

1,1 is safe
but you drop a lot of damage on the hit confirm
i generally reserve 1,1 for fast punishes
could be decent for pressure, though f1,2 outclasses it by far

 

[QuanCheesey]

Sub-Zero Cyromancer 32% Midscreen Meterless Combo

Combo: JIP - B12 - DF2 - JIP - F122 - F42 GRAB

 

[Biohazard]

Unfortunately, (and I'll put a disclaimer here) until someone finds it being worthwhile, there is literally 0 things that Cryomancer does better than grandmaster. Unbreakable at least gets the edge in zoning MUs and even then its iffy. You could only play Grandmaster and be fine for 99.9% of MUs. Which I'm ok with.

This is so wrong its not even funny. Ice clone is amazing. But the beat the snot out of you midscreens and corner combos cryo get, with a free stand up... 30% just for landing an overhead...D3... D3.. D3... B2 run F4 2 1+3... know how many people fall for that? They knock you down and arent respecting the ice blast wake up that GM has, Ex hammer wake up B2 run F4 2 1+3, free 38% combo. Get them in a corner? D3 mix up with B33 ice ball, or mix up with B2. Jut a B2 F4 2 1+3 is a 31% combo.... B2 242 F4 2 1+3 is 37%.. thats not hard to do... AT all and it restands them so you can forget the wake up. Sure you can jail someone.. how you gona jail when people realise how punishable it really is, you clone you have a hammer flying at your face or an ex slide either way you are punished and into a combo or into a mix up. GM is stong, but do not sit here and say ti is the only way to play sub zero. Enjoy clone tossing. hope we play against one another one day.

 

[Absinthesize]

This is so wrong its not even funny. Ice clone is amazing. But the beat the snot out of you midscreens and corner combos cryo get, with a free stand up... 30% just for landing an overhead...D3... D3.. D3... B2 run F4 2 1+3... know how many people fall for that? They knock you down and arent respecting the ice blast wake up that GM has, Ex hammer wake up B2 run F4 2 1+3, free 38% combo. Get them in a corner? D3 mix up with B33 ice ball, or mix up with B2. Jut a B2 F4 2 1+3 is a 31% combo.... B2 242 F4 2 1+3 is 37%.. thats not hard to do... AT all and it restands them so you can forget the wake up. Sure you can jail someone.. how you gona jail when people realise how punishable it really is, you clone you have a hammer flying at your face or an ex slide either way you are punished and into a combo or into a mix up. GM is stong, but do not sit here and say ti is the only way to play sub zero. Enjoy clone tossing. hope we play against one another one day.

haha i enjoy the enthusiasm!

edit: tho im still trying in vain to figure out how the stand up on the combo is actually good since it leaves you in neutral and far enough away your faster moves (aside from slide) cannot connect.

what this means is you do the re-stand combo, then you get put into the mixup by a character with faster frames. how is that helpful? you try to B+3,3...first one doesnt connect, 1,1? nope, thats our fastest string too. basically...how do you use that restand and not have it fall back on you getting beat out. knowing your matchup isnt enough. some characters have straight up faster frames. starting at neutral seems like a horrible thing ot have for sub.

 

[Absinthesize]

@Qwark28

how in the hell do you do you 1 bar B2 bnb? i thought it was easy unti li realized you were doing B+1 after the run...thats like finger nina shit. i cant get the B+1 entered fast enough it seems.

 

[JohnnyWorms]

Yo, my frozen brothers. You can get an extra 1% and make the overhead starter more consistent in the corner. So:
B2,B2,1,D1,B12~Klone,NJP,NJK

 

[Durango]

So what's the best way to follow-up after F4 2 1+3 for midscreen and in corners? They can still use an attack that will get you before you hit B3 or most of your other moves.

 

[Qwark28]

@Qwark28

how in the hell do you do you 1 bar B2 bnb? i thought it was easy unti li realized you were doing B+1 after the run...thats like finger nina shit. i cant get the B+1 entered fast enough it seems.

Run for just a little and cancel B1 into it.

Yo, my frozen brothers. You can get an extra 1% and make the overhead starter more consistent in the corner. So:
B2,B2,1,D1,B12~Klone,NJP,NJK

The combo drops a lot if you do 1 d1 b12. The lvls of consistency I found are

Easy - B2 B2 1 1 B12
Med - B2 B2 D1 1 B12
Harder - B2 B2 1 D1 B12

 

[Biohazard]

haha i enjoy the enthusiasm!

edit: tho im still trying in vain to figure out how the stand up on the combo is actually good since it leaves you in neutral and far enough away your faster moves (aside from slide) cannot connect.

what this means is you do the re-stand combo, then you get put into the mixup by a character with faster frames. how is that helpful? you try to B+3,3...first one doesnt connect, 1,1? nope, thats our fastest string too. basically...how do you use that restand and not have it fall back on you getting beat out. knowing your matchup isnt enough. some characters have straight up faster frames. starting at neutral seems like a horrible thing ot have for sub.

I am on mobile forgive the auto correct if any. The stand up removes the wake up game and leaves them in perfect distance for D4 hammer, D4 ex ice ball, D4 pressure, NJ DB2.. or most importantly it is the perfect distance for cryomancers best combo string... F4 2 1+3 has insain range. It can also be hit confirmed into an ex hammer or ex ice ball for big numbers. I don't need to tell you the importance of a stand up in the corner. You lose the jailing ability, but you get, imo, one of the best mix ups in the game for corner pressure. Don't underestimate your D3 in a corner and your D4. If they don't want to block it... abuse them. when they do block it do your B2.. into a 40% punish. If they start to read that combo, you can D3 or D4 then when you would do the overhead they see you stand so when they stand to block B33 ice ball. No need for ex in the corner. Sub doesn't need a jailing effect to be great. The ice clone is good for kung jin spammers. It keeps them in check. But you get more pressure from the hammer and insain punishes. People think twice when they get two 40% combos done to them just for jumping in...

Edit.. the stand up also leaves you in range for your overhead. B2. If they jump or block low that's a 31% combo. It's all rock paper scissors. Get them used to you throwing rock then throw scissors the moment they adapt.

 

[Absinthesize]

I am on mobile forgive the auto correct if any. The stand up removes the wake up game and leaves them in perfect distance for D4 hammer, D4 ex ice ball, D4 pressure, NJ DB2.. or most importantly it is the perfect distance for cryomancers best combo string... F4 2 1+3 has insain range. It can also be hit confirmed into an ex hammer or ex ice ball for big numbers. I don't need to tell you the importance of a stand up in the corner. You lose the jailing ability, but you get, imo, one of the best mix ups in the game for corner pressure. Don't underestimate your D3 in a corner and your D4. If they don't want to block it... abuse them. when they do block it do your B2.. into a 40% punish. If they start to read that combo, you can D3 or D4 then when you would do the overhead they see you stand so when they stand to block B33 ice ball. No need for ex in the corner. Sub doesn't need a jailing effect to be great. The ice clone is good for kung jin spammers. It keeps them in check. But you get more pressure from the hammer and insain punishes. People think twice when they get two 40% combos done to them just for jumping in...

Edit.. the stand up also leaves you in range for your overhead. B2. If they jump or block low that's a 31% combo. It's all rock paper scissors. Get them used to you throwing rock then throw scissors the moment they adapt.

everything you listed is relatively slow nad will get stuffed by a ton of other moves save for armored hammer (costs a bar).

 

[Biohazard]

everything you listed is relatively slow nad will get stuffed by a ton of other moves save for armored hammer (costs a bar).

Not even Kung laos vortex is fast enough to punish a D4 form the restand. i mean, know your match ups, know what to expect and know your frame data, only a few characters can punsih that B2 after the restand and the same for the F4 2.

 

[Absinthesize]

Not even Kung laos vortex is fast enough to punish a D4 form the restand. i mean, know your match ups, know what to expect and know your frame data, only a few characters can punsih that B2 after the restand and the same for the F4 2.

he just has to "spin to win"

im saying most characters have something that will hit you first. D+4 is a great D+4 but its not super fast i mean its fast i guess. but fast enough? they dont have to combo you, they just have to hit you first, get some + on you, and then its there game. B2 from what i gathered is entirely punishable. its not safe at all. i agree need to know your matches for any good fight tho.

edit. none of this takes away that i think cryomancer is good, i just wish there was a clear purpose of the restand, yes you avoid wake up guessing game. but you exchange it for a standing one...where players have more options.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Every restand in the game outside of this gives frames

why don't we get frames here?

 

[Absinthesize]

Every restand in the game outside of this gives frames

why don't we get frames here?

sorta my point...

i dont think its incorrect frame data either. it seems to be truly at 0.

 

[Durango]

Those run combos have some strict input. Still working on it, though.

 

[Absinthesize]

Those run combos have some strict input. Still working on it, though.

some of them do, tho for me i realized it was just me having to get used to how to correctly input the run input in my strings. i can do the midscreen B+2>run>F+4,2,grab damn near everytime, easy to do online and nets you 31% damage, 33% i believe with a jump in.

 

[QuanCheesey]

Sub-Zero Cyromancer 32% Midscreen Meterless Combo

Combo: JIP - B12 - DF2 - JIP - F122 - F42 GRAB

New 37% 1 bar Cyromancer Combo

Combo - Combo - JIP - B12 - (EX)DB2 - NJP - F42(GRAB)

 

[Absinthesize]

New 37% 1 bar Cyromancer Combo

Combo - Combo - JIP - B12 - (EX)DB2 - NJP - F42(GRAB)

this is offtopic but where do people get that skin i love it

 

[Biohazard]

he just has to "spin to win"

im saying most characters have something that will hit you first. D+4 is a great D+4 but its not super fast i mean its fast i guess. but fast enough? they dont have to combo you, they just have to hit you first, get some + on you, and then its there game. B2 from what i gathered is entirely punishable. its not safe at all. i agree need to know your matches for any good fight tho.

edit. none of this takes away that i think cryomancer is good, i just wish there was a clear purpose of the restand, yes you avoid wake up guessing game. but you exchange it for a standing one...where players have more options.

You control that distance. If they control sub at that range there is a problem imo. I just played pc version online forgive me if I am agitated but I need to go burn my steam account in fire. Wait it's on my computer... well rip pc.

 

[Absinthesize]

You control that distance. If they control sub at that range there is a problem imo. I just played pc version online forgive me if I am agitated but I need to go burn my steam account in fire. Wait it's on my computer... well rip pc.

mathematically you do not control that distance tho...is what im saying. your at neutral, and sub has some good normals but other characters have better ones. leaving you at neutral essentially results you at the start of the match where its just a guessing game of what you shoul do and what your opponent is going to do.

i dont see how thats competitive.

 

[QuanCheesey]

this is offtopic but where do people get that skin i love it

Doing test your might tower. Then you have to pallete swap by selecting start on the skin.

 

[Biohazard]

mathematically you do not control that distance tho...is what im saying. your at neutral, and sub has some good normals but other characters have better ones. leaving you at neutral essentially results you at the start of the match where its just a guessing game of what you shoul do and what your opponent is going to do.

i dont see how thats competitive.

reset or knock them down so they can wake up, id take the reset. If nothing else, the damage the combo does by its self is more than most of his GM full strings. Gm gets jail. jail is always nice. To be honest it really comes down to who the match up is against. Sub zero is a beast in all 3 of his variations, you can deal with zoners in unbreakable, you get amazing corner tech in GM, and you get insane damage and rundown ability in Cryomancer. pick your flavor and run with it.

 

[Absinthesize]

Doing test your might tower. Then you have to pallete swap by selecting start on the skin.

ohhh so i have it then lol. didnt realize pallette swap silly me.

ok on topic here im unsure if i want to maek a seperate thread for this. But im really trying to breakdown options. what are my options given a certain situation basically that cryomancer does. lets start with the most obvious and probably the most common. options after a f+4,2,grab.

it restands them and leaves you at neutral. there are exactly 3 things i can see you doing immediatly.

B+1,2 combo. This has the reach to connect and is 10 frames on the B+1. 1,1 is faster but wont connect. so this is our best option if we think we can beat them to it and continue a combo. in wich case i can see B+1,2>ice ball>B+2>run up>F+4,2,grab being the best option without meter.

D+4 it has 8 frames and has the reach to connect, D+3 whiffs that this range. this is good footsies and trains them to block low. if you effectively train them to blow low you can...

B+2...16 frames slow...so slow. risky. but if you think you trained them to block low. leads to a free 31% combo B+2>F+4,2,grab you could also do...

EX hammer...24 frames (or 27 cant remember) so hella slow. however it also has armor. and can lead to something like EXhammer>B+2>F+4,2,grab for 33%

Slide-8 frames. so another option but that puts them into knockdown not sure if you want that.

other then that you can back dash, NJP, cross jump (maybe) or block.. now lets examine some closer

D+4 This moves leaves you with -5 on block, +17 on hit (assuming my frame data is accurate) but also pushes them away. So what are our options once we have pushed them away? if they block it you better block back or prepare to be punished probably.

 

[Absinthesize]

reset or knock them down so they can wake up, id take the reset. If nothing else, the damage the combo does by its self is more than most of his GM full strings. Gm gets jail. jail is always nice. To be honest it really comes down to who the match up is against. Sub zero is a beast in all 3 of his variations, you can deal with zoners in unbreakable, you get amazing corner tech in GM, and you get insane damage and rundown ability in Cryomancer. pick your flavor and run with it.

knockdown results in them having to burn meter to do a wakeup...wich means its a special, wich cuts there options essentially by half. reducing the amount of things you have to predict. seems better to me. but the damage it does is really REALLY nice so id never suggest not using it.

i just made a post in this thread talking about our options after that string. of wich the only viable ones seem to be

D+4=slide>B+1,2>B+2/EXhammer

D+4 or slide being equal but greater then B+1,2 (2 frames slower) greater then B+2 (requires yomi) EX hammer (less need to guess but burns meter)

in terms of what they offer D+4 at least doesnt put in a down state, but pushes them away too resulting in me needing to look closer at it and figure out what to do with this greater range and advantage when it hits.

slide puts them down but also puts you closer to them.

the other two can result in combos. i have to get back in there and test D+4>EXhammer