Match-Up Discussion - Shotgun Struggling Against Zoners

[SkyDarkStar]

So there has never been a point in my MKX career where I was so defeated I resorted to forums...but here I am. The title says it all. How can a Shotgun Jacqui contend with characters who can zone, or hell, just have a good projectile? Jacqui's mix-up game is supreme, maybe one of the best in the game. Close-range/mid-range I can usually duke it out with anyone. But characters like Kenshin (Balanced), Shinnok (that 3 rising fireball bullshit) can be hard to fight against because not only must I worry about long range but everything else including feints and what not. It's not like she has any special means of rushing/defending. Her reflect is very slow. Only option is tactical blocking-running-blocking...

But the MAIN reason I'm posting this...is when I have to fight Full Auto Jacqui. Shotgun vs Full Auto seems to be extremely disadvantageous... EXTREMELY. I got my ass handed to me by one and it was humiliating as hell (this was after I lost 10 times to a Balanced Kenshin zoning me). The FA Jacqui wasn't even spamming...just using my lack of projectiles against me.

So fellow Shotgun players, can you provide any tips? I thought I was very good at this game but I was put into my place. I don't like this place at all. It's empty and cold. I searched (briefly) for discussions of this topic but I didn't see any. If there is one, please kindly point this forum noob in the right direction and this can be deleted. But I had to vent...

 

[stosn]

if you can not pass through zoning, the only 1 tips can help you :
1. Pick character with teleport
2. Pick character with good zoning
It's possible to do it. Just chill out and do it

 

[SaltShaker]

The life of SG Jacqui is the life of being zoned out. Nothing you can do but inch your way in patiently. With SG you really have to know the weaknesses and gaps of your opponents zoning and get within Dust range. Once in that range you can play ball.

Patience and great walk speed. If they don't respect your Dust range one hit of it into resets will make them. Once they start getting hesitant in that range use runs and insta run into normals. Try to make reads on when they use their zoning tools to punish with Dust or to inch closer.

Kenshi- say if you're full screen. Walk and block the Teleflurry. Once he does a couple make reads to neutral duck one. When he whiffs a telefurry you can run a little bit more than half of the screen. So if he whiffs and you're within half screen you can run and S1 full combo punish. The Overhead Slash is slower and you can react to the animation. Once inside you should body him free but watch out for armor.

FA Jacqui- this one is a little more tough. Neutral duck the bullets and walk closer. Watch out for EX bullet at the end. When in Dust range, whatever you do, do not jump in. If they read they can UpRocket you for big damage. In your Dust range watch out for low rocket. She has the same tools inside as you so you have to go for your vortex. It's a tough MU.

 

[Ecodus]

I have a fair amount of experience with Shinnok so i'll try and add what I can.

Bone Shaper - The zoning consists of hell sparks and beam. The beam you can neutral duck and move forward, like most high hitting projectiles. this just takes some patience and to some extent a read on your part if you think they are going to beam again or do something else. If they are being obvious with their beams, well you can absorb and build some meter. Within dust range if you duck a beam then you basically get to check with a Dust. Just be weary of a EX scoop, That move blows up Dust. As for hell sparks, well that comes down to dealing with hell sparks as a whole (meaning not variation specific). Did you know that with reversals you can punish hellsparks just about every time? If Shinnok does hell sparks and doesn't MB it until the last hit you can reversal EX bf1 and punish. This covers his option to MB the last hit. If Shinnok doesn't have meter, it's a free bf1 reversal - everytime.

So how does this help? The thing (I think) people struggle with the most with hell sparks is that it isn't challenged enough. It's a scary idea, this move that covers 3/4 of the screen and can be popped for + frames or a full combo on hit. But when it isn't MB'ed it's quite negative. So to get through the zoning barrage as Shotgun you have to make them fear the use of hellsparks, and you have to learn to make reads and risk running in. Let me put you in a situation.

You're full screen vs Skinnok and he's doing his standard beam zoning. You're working your way in ducking and walking. Now you've walked yourself into hell sparks range. he hell sparks, you block the hell sparks and after the third spark is blocked you spend a bar of meter and do exbf1. you punish (whether or not he popped it or not) now he's Knocked down and you get to run in and get in that range. You now get to play the KD guessing game. is he going to wake up with armour, wake up hell sparks ect.

next situation, same game, he's got meter you guys are up close hitting buttons on eachother, he d4 hell sparks, and you block. at this point you've punished his hell sparks and you make a read that he isn't going to EX it. instead of the bf1 punish, now you decide to run in and 50/50 (right away, you need to commit to it and not hesitate, get in the lab a practice running right after the block stun). he guesses wrong, now you're in vortex city and are playing the Jacqui briggs game. Once you show the Shinnok that you know how to play the hell sparks game, they will either pop the ex early to get their hit advantage, or just use it less. You get the Shinnok to think about when he can use the hell sparks, he starts doing other things which means you get to do other things.

I think Necro is a different story, and probably gives Shotgun some more issues seeing as the flick and hand are mids... I don't know much about that.

Imposter is kind of the same thing, just his armour is weaker and gains a teleport. Also, the move he steals is bf2 fyi.

hope that helps

 

[DrFolmer]

there's actually quite some range on the shotgun blast. I played some games against a decent Shotgun player (I was playing Fisticuffs btw) and I tried to abuse her lack of projectiles, but she was very patient and knew how to space the low gun granting her a full combo.

But yeah, it's about being patient - especially in Jacqui's case due to her t-rex arms that haunt her every move. Neutral duck for days and beat those mofo's up

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

More patience needed

Tips for Kenshi

At full to 3/4 screen range always neutral duck. Overhead slash can be blocked on reaction. If he does a teleflurry sprint till you are almost in then block. Do not try to attack after you sprint in if they have meter. Kenshi always knows.

At mid range you have to block because of shoulder.

For Jacqui

Pick Quan. Done and dusted

Though same as Kenshi neutral duck at full screen. If you think rockets are coming jump forward or do your projectile absorb thing.

Close to mid range is bad because the get the option to use low and up rocket and if you block the machine gun they build a disgusting amount of meter. Not really sure what to do at this range. (why I use quan to out zone her)


I'm pretty sure the range on the shotgun blasts are quite good as well when you get to mid ish range

 

[Ecodus]

Sigh. Another low level scrub that wants zoning to be gone so they can stand in front of each other and fight, slapping like to high school girls.

Maybe go watch videos of top players and how they approach and get in.

the guy is literally asking how to deal with zoning, asking for tips on how to deal with zoning. If you have nothing helpful to add, go away.

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

Sigh. Another low level scrub that wants zoning to be gone so they can stand in front of each other and fight, slapping like to high school girls.

Maybe go watch videos of top players and how they approach and get in.

At no point did he ask for zoning to be removed. He asked for help with something he is unsure of how to deal with

 

[HuttonMD]

Sigh. Another low level scrub that wants zoning to be gone so they can stand in front of each other and fight, slapping like to high school girls.

Maybe go watch videos of top players and how they approach and get in.

Did he ask to nerf zoning? I'm pretty sure he came in here asking for help and ways around the zoning instead of crying for nerfs.

Maybe we are reading two different threads but there no need to come in here being a dick when he asking for advice

 

[Ecodus]

another thing to add - vs full auto jacqui, if you're struggling to deal with her guns, you can kind of use the same concept as you do vs hell sparks. Instead of a reversal on a blocked guns, you can neutral duck and punish guns with bf1 (within that range that bf1 hits) if you think after the guns he's going to MB you can ex bf1 and go through the last hit of his EX (you can also do this on block if you have a hard read he's going to EX the guns). Also keep in mind, the EX part of the MB guns does 5% on hit. It'll send you full screen again but the risk reward is in your favor in terms of damage. From a very specific range (which you'd have to lab) if you think she's going to EX the guns you can jump between the bullets and the missile and punish. I don't know if you can duck and hit with a dust. that you'd have to test.

 

[PandaManee]

I do pretty well with Tech shield :\ ..

Unless its HQT lol

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Honestly against zoners I just pick FA else because it's a hell to deal with SG but everyone else already told you what to do so yeah... Good luck.