Stage Selection Rule Question in Tournaments

[EMPEROR_THEO]

NEC was enforcing its rule on random stages to be picked 100% of the time. This is a much better rule in my opinion than the loser picking stage, because of how many stages in this game lopside certain match-ups.

However, it did seem as if the element of bad luck cost players their chances against a opponent.

Example 1: Godspeed vs. Foreverking at NEC.
Foreverking is an amazing player, so I'm not saying he got a lucky win off of Godspeed. From what I heard though, when Godspeed and Foreverking did random stage, they ended up on Gotham Alleyway both times, which is anybody's worst nightmare against Batman. This situation is made a billion times worse in the hands of a great player like King.

Example 2: MF Slayer getting Themyscira like 1258 times.

Amongst several other examples I'm sure. Even though Godspeed tried to re-random the stage, he still ended up on Gotham alleyway.

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My question to the community: Do we have a rule intact where both opponents can agree on a stage? If this rule was already intact at NEC/Big E tournaments/all future majors, ignore this thread and move on.

The process would work like this.

1. Opponent A and opponent B sit down to play their match.
2. Opponent A and B have a list (physically or mentally) of all stages they're okay with. (This discussion must be made before they're on the character select screen)
3. A stage matches on each players list which both players are okay with, then they play their match.
4. The loser of a match can then either A. Pick a counterpick stage which the opponent is okay with or B. Re-random if they can't agree on a stage.

If both players cannot agree on a stage, they must randomize the stages. I feel that most players would end up agreeing on a stage because randomizing it is scary for both players. Imagine if (for example) a Superman player and a Raven player can't agree on a stage, that means there is an even chance that they'll either end up on Themyscira top floor (lop-sided in Superman's favor) or Hall of Justice ground floor (in Raven's favor), amongst other stages which makes both characters more dangerous.

I feel this a great additional stage select rule to have for future tournaments, if it hasn't been done so already.

 

[kronspik]

Why would the opponent ever be okay with a counterpick stage?

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

Why would the opponent ever be okay with a counterpick stage?

For example, if an Aquaman player loses to Superman, then wants to go on Metropolis Street/Fortress of Solitude for the interactables which damage boost his ground trident, the Superman player may be okay with that since it benefits him as well for his straight laser with the same interactables. (Same concept can apply to Aquaman using these stages on Martian Manhunter, but Martian being fine with it since those interactables benefit his pillars).

Some counterpick stages are benefactors for both characters. All matchup specific. Of course if a Batman player always wants to go on alleyway, mostly everyone will just re-random.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Randomization just seems better. It sucks how stage dependent this game can be, but the only way around that is turning off interactables. Otherwise, stage selection will pretty much always just fall along archetype lines (acrobatic, gadget, power).
"The only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair."

 

[Zoidberg747]

I don't think its an official rule but if both players agree most judges dont make a fuss about it.

 

[Lilith]

That's why its called luck..............looks like arguments are just going to explode if we try those methods. At least with double random dudes are gonna have to argue with lady luck.

 

[Indecisive]

Them getting the stage again shows how random it is. I know it sucks but it can happen. The Double Random rule is very good IMO. I feel like we shouldnt make the stage picks too complicated. Double Random does have the luck factor to it but thats why you have to learn your character on every stage it shows how good you are with the character. If you continue to go back to the same stage and get good on only one stage does that really show how good you are if you are only good on that one stage. Or we can just turn the Interactables off XD

 

[ll Nooby ll]

I like this idea, I know in smash they have certain stages that start with called Neutral Stages, and then the have they're "counter-pick" stages that the loser can pick to. Or just stay with the Neutral stage. This might be something that we can implement.
I've also seen that the SSBB mod Project M as an option to strike off stages during a 2 out of 3. That would be a cool addition to have in a update or something.

 

[Indecisive]

I like this idea, I know in smash they have certain stages that start with called Neutral Stages, and then the have they're "counter-pick" stages that the loser can pick to. Or just stay with the Neutral stage. This might be something that we can implement.
I've also seen that the SSBB mod Project M as an option to strike off stages during a 2 out of 3. That would be a cool addition to have in a update or something.

There really is no "Neutral Stages" In Injustice. Kinda Sucks. Also Smash doesn't have things like interactables to deal with. Since they turn items and such off. The only time i don't like the double random is when i play my friend and we always get the stage he wants -_-. Lady Luck hates me.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

Them getting the stage again shows how random it is. I know it sucks but it can happen. The Double Random rule is very good IMO. I feel like we shouldnt make the stage picks too complicated. Double Random does have the luck factor to it but thats why you have to learn your character on every stage it shows how good you are with the character. If you continue to go back to the same stage and get good on only one stage does that really show how good you are if you are only good on that one stage. Or we can just turn the Interactables off XD

I agree that at the highest possible level, one should master habituating on every stage. But there are stages where you are forced to completely play someone else's game which are make it or break it for someone who spends much of their time and money traveling for tournament. Skill can take you so far if you're (for example) a character with poor mobility vs a gadget zoner whose turtling on the right side of Aris Aircraft.

 

[LEGEND]

does any character have more than one (possibly two) broken stages?

the strike rule might be a good idea on top of either 50/50 or double random

 

[AK-Israel]

I like this idea, I know in smash they have certain stages that start with called Neutral Stages, and then the have they're "counter-pick" stages that the loser can pick to. Or just stay with the Neutral stage. This might be something that we can implement.
I've also seen that the SSBB mod Project M as an option to strike off stages during a 2 out of 3. That would be a cool addition to have in a update or something.

Couldn't the Atlantis stage be use as a "Neutral stage"?

 

[Indecisive]

I agree that at the highest possible level, one should master habituating on every stage. But there are stages where you are forced to completely play someone else's game which are make it or break it for someone who spends much of their time and money traveling for tournament. Skill can take you so far if you're (for example) a character with poor mobility vs a gadget zoner whose turtling on the right side of Aris Aircraft.

I know what its like since i play Against DS all the time. He has a lot of control in stopping you from using Interactables. But i feel like if you are getting pinned down by one interactable you need to practice those stages that are hard for you. Or MB through it to take less damage. It does suck but if you are going to take the game serious you need to be able to have a way to beat your most difficult stages IMO anyway. Kinda like if you have a bad MU you practice it until you got it down. Can the same be said for a stage?

 

[Indecisive]

Couldn't the Atlantis stage be use as a "Neutral stage"?

That stage is still technically not Neutral. Unless you are both Playing A gadget or acrobat Character. Since Power Characters get only one use out of the water and the others can keep using them. But location of objects it could be somewhat considered neutral even though the explosions are different range as well.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

does any character have more than one (possibly two) broken stages?

the strike rule might be a good idea on top of either 50/50 or double random

Superman on Themyscira and Prison Yard makes him the best character in the game. He's still aggravating on Arkham Asylum (the TV stage) since he controls a lot of interactables there and gets a crazy dive punch 50/50 off of the command grab on the left side of that stage.

Martian Manhunter on any stage which has an interactable right in the middle on the start of the match is also tough (I.E. Fortress of solitude top floor, pig stage on Arkham), because it forces you to guess if he's going to start off with trait standing 3, or if he'll go straight for the interactable. Not as bad, but still worth mentioning.

Aquaman on Metropolis Street and Fortress of Solitude top floor makes him a much better character due to the machine gun/laser-portal thingy interactable.

Zod on any interactable-heavy stage...but I guess that's a Zod thing.

Batgirl on Hall of Justice ground floor, Fortress of Solitude top floor, and any stage with a gadget bomb interactable makes her way better than she already is.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Randomization just seems better. It sucks how stage dependent this game can be, but the only way around that is turning off interactables.

I like this idea

 

[Indecisive]

Randomization just seems better. It sucks how stage dependent this game can be, but the only way around that is turning off interactables. Otherwise, stage selection will pretty much always just fall along archetype lines (acrobatic, gadget, power).
"The only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair."

Stevo Says this because he tired of getting hit with Interactables

 

[MashPotatoTower]

double random and no complaints. The game was patched to support that

 

[AK-Israel]

That stage is still technically not Neutral. Unless you are both Playing A gadget or acrobat Character. Since Power Characters get only one use out of the water and the others can keep using them. But location of objects it could be somewhat considered neutral even though the explosions are different range as well.

Unfortunately I don't have the game anymore,but I could of sworn that a power char could smash the glass and after a few seconds could be use again.

 

[Indecisive]

Unfortunately I don't have the game anymore,but I could of sworn that a power char could smash the glass and after a few seconds could be use again.

Power Character gets only one Smash.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Or we could turn off interactables since they're causing so many problems. Just a thought.

 

[AK-Israel]

Power Character gets only one Smash.

Oh ok thanks for clarifying then

 

[NoobHunter420]

random select is a much better choice.
It all comes down to luck.

 

[VenomX-90]

Idk but if you are gonna select a stage, use the original music by pressing start if you are on MK9.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Has any tournament organizer held a tournament where interactables were off recently? If so how did that work out for them?

While the game was in development, NRS stated how stages played a big part of the character's design and how a character like Raven could use her acrobatics to benefit her run away game.

Do characters like Raven or acrobatic characters in general even use interactables to amplify their game plan?

It's okay to experiment with what the community believes is the best for the game to reach the highest level of fairness and competitiveness. We don't have to abide by the exact rules a company tells us to follow, no offense to NRS. Look no further than the SSBM community as an example of a community driven standard of fair play.

Stages will make a bad match-up better but it can also make it even worse. The blessing that we have compared to SSBM is that NRS does care about competitiveness and has proven that by giving us the option of turning off the interactables.