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Someone explain this to me

Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
The reason the guy is getting blown up is because he's suggesting that Starfire should be nerfed because of a universal mechanic.

If he just came in and asked about how blockstun works in the game it'd be cool. Instead he comes in with aggressive propaganda. Tfw North Korea any time now fam.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Tweedy said:
The reason the guy is getting blown up is because he's suggesting that Starfire should be nerfed because of a universal mechanic.

If he just came in and asked about how blockstun works in the game it'd be cool. Instead he comes in with aggressive propaganda. Tfw North Korea any time now fam.
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TBH
The video was made while I was labbing starfire which is why she's involved and the name of the video was just satire
This is more aimed at general game mechanics but I will say when I did the same with robin I got inconsistent results while with starhoe it was blocked 100% of the time. Robins f2d3 for instance
When I did the same with that string sometimes the poke would come out and sometimes it wouldn't. Either way jus to clarify , my question is about the game mechanics not starfire specificlly
 
FutileDede

FutileDede

True Empress
xKhaoTik said:
I'm man enough to take a blow up.

He should've worded it and presented it way better tho. It was super misleading.

But yea...misunderstanding
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I think he did express it clearly by asking why d1 wasn't coming out. You just jumped the gun.

I just wish the same mechanic was consistent with robin's mb sword, It is -3 on block and I mash d1 after like any good robin should. I get beat if the opponents checks me with a poke (" I am aware this should happen please no blow up xKhaoTik") But why am I not privileged to the same block OS. Is there something about the mechanic I'm missing?
 
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trufenix

bye felicia
its not an option select, its physics. Unless you mash at 60mps, you're never going to hit a 3 frame window with any consistency. Inputs don't buffer on block.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Cobainevermind87 said:
That doesn't make any sense. Let's say you have a string that's plus 3 on block. Are you telling me you can't consistently d1 before the opponent does?
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His point does make sense to a degree. There is different buffer windows related to different situations. For instance , buffer window on reversals is huge and that's why reversals come out on the first available frame automatically.
The buffer window coming out of block stun seems big usually , I know with cap cold when I block low then try to go into f2 I always get df2. It could be that special move inputs have a huge input window but normal attack buttons have little to none?
 
B

big_aug

Noob
Just don't mash it and it will come out. Time it right. It works this way for all tight windows in this game. Try a combo with a tight link and try to mash it and you'll drop it.

Another easy example is Supergirl's D1xxBreath. You can interrupt it with Starfire's D1 clean if you time it right. Sometimes if you mash you might get it, but more likely you'll get hit or it won't come out.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
big_aug said:
Just don't mash it and it will come out. Time it right. It works this way for all tight windows in this game. Try a combo with a tight link and try to mash it and you'll drop it.

Another easy example is Supergirl's D1xxBreath. You can interrupt it with Starfire's D1 clean if you time it right. Sometimes if you mash you might get it, but more likely you'll get hit or it won't come out.
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Did u read any part of this entire thread?
 
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big_aug

Noob
boba_buster said:
Did u read any part of this entire thread?
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Some of it. What's the problem? Your video is mashing d1. If you do that it won't come out. That was your question, wasn't it? I see other people said the same thing too.

It happens on everything. If you are mashing, you more often then not aren't actually hitting the button during the window in which the move will come out. Basically, this Starfire isn't getting punished because her timing is off. Lucky her.
 
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God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Cobainevermind87 said:
That doesn't make any sense. Let's say you have a string that's plus 3 on block. Are you telling me you can't consistently d1 before the opponent does?
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when you are +3 and you both press a button, its assumed both players miss a frame or two, but yours still comes out 3 frames earlier on average, assuming same window of leniency for both players

reversals are autotimed and come out on frame zero





but yeah you can learn a 3f timing if you practice it tho, for sure
 
gongfuren

gongfuren

Arma Virumque Cano
big_aug said:
Some of it. What's the problem? Your video is mashing d1. If you do that it won't come out. That was your question, wasn't it? I see other people said the same thing too.

It happens on everything. If you are mashing, you more often then not aren't actually hitting the button during the window in which the move will come out. Basically, this Starfire isn't getting punished because her timing is off. Lucky her.
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The problem is that players who decide to mash while negative should be interrupted by a reversal. That is the expected result in fighting games, and it makes sense because it rewards smart decision-making. This particular case is bullshit because the player making the dumb decision (mashing when negative) is not punished for it.

Imagine that you see your opponent hitting d1 after a negative move several times during a set. You make a read that he will do it again, so you use a reversal on his next negative move. He ends up mashing out d1 again (meaning your read was correct), but your reversal ends up blocked. You get no reward for making a correct decision, and your opponent gets an opportunity to punish you if your reversal is unsafe.
 
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big_aug

Noob
gongfuren said:
The problem is that players who decide to mash while negative should be interrupted by a reversal. That is the expected result in fighting games, and it makes sense because it rewards smart decision-making. This particular case is bullshit because the player making the dumb decision (mashing when negative) is not punished for it.

Imagine that you see your opponent hitting d1 after a negative move several times during a set. You make a read that he will do it again, so you use a reversal on his next negative move. He ends up mashing out d1 again (meaning your read was correct), but your reversal ends up blocked. You get no reward for making a correct decision, and your opponent gets an opportunity to punish you if your reversal is unsafe.
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I mean, he is being punished long term. He can't hit timing windows like this so he isn't getting what he wants to come out. If Robin had done a slower move, this player might have been punished even if they were at advantage because they're mashing. Certain things may seem like the person mashing is protected, but in the grand scheme they are getting blown up because they aren't tight with timings.

For example, punishing f23 breath. The masher might be mashing his s1 and mess up the timing and get blown up. Mash and you risk getting hit even though you are at advantage.
 
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trufenix

bye felicia
Cobainevermind87 said:
That doesn't make any sense. Let's say you have a string that's plus 3 on block. Are you telling me you can't consistently d1 before the opponent does?
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Never said that. Not even remotely what this is about. If you're + you can consistently anything before your opponent does, but mashing all but guarantees you WON'T be frame perfect. That means your +3 may be +2, +1, even or possibly - depending on how you mash.

boba_buster said:
His point does make sense to a degree. There is different buffer windows related to different situations. For instance , buffer window on reversals is huge and that's why reversals come out on the first available frame automatically.
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Correct, on reversal, as long as you hit within the reversal window, the game will give it to you first frame possible. On offense/pressure though, there are no input favors. You're either early (nothing happens), frame perfect (nailed it) or late (loss of frame advantage).

In this threads example, since Starfire is -6, and robin will be hitting you in 9 frames (remember, reversal timing is almost always perfect) that means you technically only have 3 frames to hit d1 and have something happen. That means 20 mashes per second or a 5% chance of doing it via pure dumb luck. 95% of the time mashing that will miss your 3 frame window, no d1 will happen, and robin will tag you. The only reason you're blocking is because while you 1 input is off, the down never fails to come out on the first possible frame.

The buffer window coming out of block stun seems big usually , I know with cap cold when I block low then try to go into f2 I always get df2. It could be that special move inputs have a huge input window but normal attack buttons have little to none?
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It's not even that the buffer is big, its just that special inputs out prioritize normal inputs (they have to or else you'd never get a d,f+2, even when you want it.). It doesn't go from the first time you pressed down it goes from the last. So if you tell the game d for 20 or so frames then suddenly f+2 the game has no way to know you meant that f+2 alone, and not just the world's worst d,f+2.

So you HAVE to make sure you go back to neutral in between blocking and punishing with a move like that, or even put a momentary tap back in there to invalidate the special input because d,f+2 is a move, while d,N,f+2 and d,b,f+2 are not.
 
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