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Match-up Discussion Solomon Grundy.

Jay Rupp

Jay Rupp

Human Smoke or Riot
I usually don't have too many problems with the match up, but....is it just me or does he seem a tad bull shit?

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Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Just his trait. It's still probably in DS' favor. Flip, F3, and B1U2 make DS airborne, so ground grabs are negated.
 
G4S Silent Jay

G4S Silent Jay

I enjoy hurting you.
This is a MU I used to play a LOT of. When I finally got really good in it again post-patch, I caught a lot of shit about how it's "obviously a 7-3 or 8-2 in Deathstroke's favor". While I think it's pretty even, it can be a rough one to play since you have to very careful and weary of a Pain Chain. Once zoning is out the window, this becomes a much harder MU to handle because Grundy will out damage you like few others. I've noticed the best way to handle it is to zone out Grundy for as long as humanly possible and try to save at least 1 bar for when he finally gets in because trust me, Grundy WILL get in, try to throw out b1u2 or a f3 if you think they're not gonna just walking corpse you (that move in theory is easy to beat, little harder to deal with in practice), then try to wait for the throw attempt and MB f3 should have you set. Jumping in isn't a good idea in the MU AT ALL. If you think you can get away with it, you can try to sneak 1 or 2 in, but Grundy's d2 beats j3 clean consistently, and combos into a pain chain, and for a bar can get in the upper 40's to 50% ish-damage (yay for guaranteed reset damage!). Just play it patient, and watch out for WCC, don't try to over-do pressure (a gap in it can get you MB Pain Chained free), avoid jump-in's because Grundy has such a godlike d2 that reaches pretty far behind him as well, careful of swamp hands since it can get him a full-pain chain combo from full screen, and gunz gunz gunz til they call you Mo.... Mo Gunz....
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
-EX low guns help

-You can blow up a non canceled walking corps with a mb b3 and a bunch of other shit. Practice the timing for this in training mode.

-Don't think you can't rush his ass down either. He has to respect your frame traps and mixups just like almost all of the rest of the cast has to. (Fuck you Black Adam)

-Much like the aquaman matchup, jump ins are a great way to get yourself killed.

-Zone him with ex Low guns, air guns, and high guns, as he's making his way in, space out your f3 and take your full combo or your frame advantage and mix him up.
 
RadicalFuzz

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Things to note:

-Any strings that aren't true blockstrings are gonna get you blown up. Either MB Trait (easy to mash out) or Walking Corpse Cancel (difficult to use in between attacks but more damaging and meterless) will come out in between the attacks and unless you're both airborne and it's a 1 or 2 frame gap (very tricky to time the WCC properly if it's a small gap) then Grundy will hurt you for using that string

-B3/F3 avoid grabs during startup if you start it right before Grundy would grab you (only consistent with Walking Corpse). This is universal.

-If you're in the corner, clash is your friend. Even if Grundy has more meter you're forcing him to use that meter otherwise he'll get pushed back towards the corner and you'll be midscreen and can set up your zoning game again.

-Jumping back and abusing j3 won't work in this matchup. Grundy's anti-air grab will beat it every time and give him a hard knockdown.

-Grundy can option select your two wakeups (Sword Flip & Sword Spin) and deal damage to you either way. On a knockdown Grundy does Walking Corpse and inputs the cancel in the reverse direction. If you cross him up with sword flip then he'll cancel and get a free combo. If you wakeup with sword spin he'll just grab you, MB it, and get good damage and a setup. Neutral jumping beats this, but there's no way of knowing if he's inputting the cancel backwards to catch the flip or forwards to catch you jumping.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Vagrant said:
-EX low guns help

-You can blow up a non canceled walking corps with a mb b3 and a bunch of other shit. Practice the timing for this in training mode.

-Don't think you can't rush his ass down either. He has to respect your frame traps and mixups just like almost all of the rest of the cast has to. (Fuck you Black Adam)

-Much like the aquaman matchup, jump ins are a great way to get yourself killed.

-Zone him with ex Low guns, air guns, and high guns, as he's making his way in, space out your f3 and take your full combo or your frame advantage and mix him up.
Click to expand...
Grundy doesn't have to respect ANY frametraps

that is his entire build.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Also, do remember that Grundy IS somewhat slow. DS has multiple 7 and 8 frame moves, 1 of which makes him airborne and ungrabbable (barring the AA grab).
 
Jay Rupp

Jay Rupp

Human Smoke or Riot
As I said, I dont have much trouble with him but some of his abilities are just bullshit, from any perspective.

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LordChozo

LordChozo

Mainless Wanderer
I'm with JokeStroke on this. As a DS main and a Grundy second, this is one matchup I always dread getting as Grundy. If DS gets you full screen (not hard if he just lands the first hit really), and you don't have defense chain, there's not a lot Grundy can really do. Swamp hands get blown up by high or low guns, which come out quicker. WCC is his best option, but DS can just back jump or back dash to reacquire the space. Eventually if you're patient DS will have to corner himself, but that usually puts him on a corner interact, which will either let him damage and regain his spacing, or will vault him out of the corner, where he only needs one more quick knockdown to set up full screen again.

Grundy can also get in by burning super, but MB quick fire will do enough pushback to burn off a lot of the timer and DS can get away more often than not if he's conserving meter.

If Grundy does have defense chain it's still not free for him. He can turtle with life lead, but if he gets content to block DS can pop a trait and often block swamp hands by the time the Grundy player reacts, at which point the life lead will often vanish.

A Grundy victory is dependent on getting the first hit (or at least not eating a hard knockdown), activating defense chain, and keeping a trigger finger on swamp hands if he gets pushed back out afterward. A DS victory is dependent on knocking Grundy down, backdashing, and lolguns. Grundy clearly has a LOT more work to do in this matchup, and I wouldn't hesitate to call it 7-3 Stroke.
 
Jay Rupp

Jay Rupp

Human Smoke or Riot
Once again..I win almost all my MUs against him, but from a General perspective of any character I think hes a lil bs. Especially the invincibility frames on a few of his attacks.

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Uber

Uber

Mortal
Not really bs at all. I think you are just approaching the matchup all wrong. Dont let him near you but also dont spam projectiles that will get armored through by swamp hands. There are many characters with worse bullshit than grundy

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G4S Silent Jay

G4S Silent Jay

I enjoy hurting you.
I think it's just the sheer amount of armor Grundy has mixed with his damage output that makes it so frustrating at times.
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
Mikman360 said:
Also, do remember that Grundy IS somewhat slow. DS has multiple 7 and 8 frame moves, 1 of which makes him airborne and ungrabbable (barring the AA grab).
Click to expand...
He doesn't need speed when he has Walking Korpse kancels. Also he has an 8 frame D2 that kombos and leads to mix ups...


Jay Rupp said:
As I said, I dont have much trouble with him but some of his abilities are just bullshit, from any perspective.
Click to expand...

I agree. I personally hate him more than any other character in this game. If it wasn't for throw invincible moves, we'd all be screwed.
 
RadicalFuzz

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Red Reaper said:
He doesn't need speed when he has Walking Korpse kancels. Also he has an 8 frame D2 that kombos and leads to mix ups...
Click to expand...
His D2 has krap horizontal range and every other move he has (air grab notwithstanding) has double digit startup.

Jay Rupp said:
Especially the invincibility frames on a few of his attacks.
Click to expand...
On wakeup he has to MB his cleaver to make it safe. It's relatively invincible but why would you be standing in his face, you're just asking to get mixed up by Walking Corpse
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
RadicalFuzz said:
His D2 has krap horizontal range and every other move he has (air grab notwithstanding) has double digit startup.
Click to expand...

Walking Korpse Kancel allows you to get in range easily and for an AA it has amazing range. It hits behind his head making even Aquaman jealous.

In general it has pretty good range and even catches jump backs after Walking Korpse. Take into account that this is an 8 frame move that leads to kombos or mix ups.
 
RadicalFuzz

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
If we're talking specifically about the Deathstroke matchup:
Shoot moar guns. WC has only 3 hits of armor, and Grundy takes damage while he's walking. Rifle is more than 3 hits, MB guns are more than 3 hits.
This is the first time I've ever had to argue against my own character. DS-Grundy isn't super free but it is in DS' favor. Abuse interactibles and frustrating runaway tactics. If Grundy's within WC range then of course he has the advantage, but fullscreen he can't touch you because all of your guns hit multiple times.
 
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