So since marvel stole the ultimate name, should MK go a different route?

[MKF30]

I agree with all of this except adding another meter bar. Also,we should get animalities.



@Rathalos
Ghost Rider is 20 years older than Scorpion, so perhaps we should say Scorpion is Ghost Rider without a motorcycle.

Well, Scorp is a ninja, GR isn't lol....that's kind of a big difference.

But honestly, if we're discussing the whole bite off thing...then Marvel clearly bit off of DC lol...

Superman=Sentry and Gladiator from Marvel? hmm

Flash-Quick Silver from Marvel?

Batman-IronMan the Batman of Marvel...lol

Well you get the point but fact of the matter is MK did use the Ultimate term before Capcom

 

[aj1701]

its funny that people think online, hitboxes, game mechanics (trading hits), training mode and all that can be patched.

big news: It can't be patched.

Would you kindly explain how it can't be patched?

 

[Abudabi]

Well I do recall Paulo Garcia saying we wouldn't see an improved training mode unless they release something bigger than a patch

 

[Sasuga]

Ultimate Mortal vs Kombat : The Fate of New Bugs.
Mortal Kombat Hats Off Edition.

its funny that people think online, hitboxes, game mechanics (trading hits), training mode and all that can be patched.

big news: It can't be patched.

I don't see why not, actually. As far as i know, when a game needs data, it checks to see if there is data on the hd. If there is, cpu uses it, if there is not, data is read from disc. You can basically overwrite the whole game through a patch. If you wanted to patch MK9 with SSF4, it should technically be possible. And I don't see how Sony or Microsoft would build limits into their systems that would prevent this.

I can see why it's not desirable not to fix everything through patches, I just can't see how this would be impossible.

 

[RagingNight]

Would you kindly explain how it can't be patched?

patches tweak parts of the game that already exist. For balancing you can add values to things such as dmg, recovery, startup etc and it will work.

3D hitboxes to 2D hitboxes is a total rework of the game engine, it is not something you can simply edit or swap out and be done. It also requires a monumental time to test and adjust to make it work. Something a patch can not do.

Trading hits is also a game design, and its not something you can just be like "o lets just add this in". This alone totally changes the game design and would require a lot of time to test/balance out.

Training mode would require a total rework to parts of the game that aren't even in the present form of the game. You can't just be like "well herp-derp lets add playback", you have to actually build that whole functionality instead of just adjusting a part of the code.

In a nutshell TL;DR for the above quoted things I mention, there is no on/off switch you can simply activate which is patching essentially. Patching is just editing files in the existing game, it isn't adding/changing anything significant to the game.

Also one thing I like to address. DLC characters take a bit of time to develop, create and test out. What most people don't realize is patching requires approx a month to go through Sony and Microsoft Q/A testing. Meaning that characters like Freddy were already completed way before the date he was going to be released.

I don't see why not, actually. As far as i know, when a game needs data, it checks to see if there is data on the hd. If there is, cpu uses it, if there is not, data is read from disc. You can basically overwrite the whole game through a patch. If you wanted to patch MK9 with SSF4, it should technically be possible. And I don't see how Sony or Microsoft would build limits into their systems that would prevent this.

I can see why it's not desirable not to fix everything through patches, I just can't see how this would be impossible.

It is not possible because no corporate company would spend that many resources on a rework of that level of significance. Patches are simply edits/adjustments. Not total reworks.

 

[MagicMan357]

patches tweak parts of the game that already exist. For balancing you can add values to things such as dmg, recovery, startup etc and it will work.

3D hitboxes to 2D hitboxes is a total rework of the game engine, it is not something you can simply edit or swap out and be done. It also requires a monumental time to test and adjust to make it work. Something a patch can not do.

Trading hits is also a game design, and its not something you can just be like "o lets just add this in". This alone totally changes the game design and would require a lot of time to test/balance out.

Training mode would require a total rework to parts of the game that aren't even in the present form of the game. You can't just be like "well herp-derp lets add playback", you have to actually build that whole functionality instead of just adjusting a part of the code.

In a nutshell TL;DR for the above quoted things I mention, there is no on/off switch you can simply activate which is patching essentially. Patching is just editing files in the existing game, it isn't adding/changing anything significant to the game.

Also one thing I like to address. DLC characters take a bit of time to develop, create and test out. What most people don't realize is patching requires approx a month to go through Sony and Microsoft Q/A testing. Meaning that characters like Freddy were already completed way before the date he was going to be released.



It is not possible because no corporate company would spend that many resources on a rework of that level of significance. Patches are simply edits/adjustments. Not total reworks.

Trades are stupid lol

As for mk, Mortal kombat ultimate

solved

 

[CY MasterHavik]

WE ARE NOT SF!!!! Can we stop it with this bullshit and just enjoy the game? It's getting really annoying.

 

[RagingNight]

Trades are stupid lol

As for mk, Mortal kombat ultimate

solved

because the game randomly deciding who wins is better?

 

[MagicMan357]

because the game randomly deciding who wins is better?

id rather have that (Which in reality usually doesnt happen if you analyze it) than a damn trade just so some lucky bitch can combo off of it

Plus paulo already said that they will never put trades in MK because it doesnt fit MK (which is wouldnt) and does weird stuff

 

[RagingNight]

id rather have that (Which in reality usually doesnt happen if you analyze it) than a damn trade just so some lucky bitch can combo off of it

lol? How do you know it doesn't happen often in reality when plenty of other fighters have trades? And its not some "lucky" bitch, its you not knowing the matchup that got you into that situation. If you know if you attack at XYZ situation and its favorable to the opponent, why attack then? if trading wasn't allowed wouldn't you still lose? o wait nvm RNG luck factor decides he wins anyways.

 

[MagicMan357]

lol? How do you know it doesn't happen often in reality when plenty of other fighters have trades? And its not some "lucky" bitch, its you not knowing the matchup that got you into that situation. If you know if you attack at XYZ situation and its favorable to the opponent, why attack then? if trading wasn't allowed wouldn't you still lose? o wait nvm RNG luck factor decides he wins anyways.

You act like people have some monopoly over a move someones going to do and even if they had trades and the lucky bitch (which is what it is) gets the edge whats really the difference? Once again its not random 95% of the time, dont get mad because mk isnt SF.

 

[RagingNight]

You act like people have some monopoly over a move someones going to do and even if they had trades and the lucky bitch (which is what it is) gets the edge whats really the difference? Once again its not random 95% of the time, dont get mad because mk isnt SF.

I'm super raging. Its not like every single successful fighting game has trades and for good reasons.

How is the computer randomly deciding on every other frame not random on who wins trades? How will people ever know if their move was +frame,-frame, or safe? Lets say I did a jump-in kick and cage does the anti-air flip kick and I won, I guess I must be lucky right? You're the one that seems angry calling imaginary players a "lucky bitch".

And who mentioned SF? you seem super salty, want to talk about your pent up rage?

 

[scottyj]

Mortal Kombat: Master Edition. It would fit nicely.

 

[aj1701]

Well I do recall Paulo Garcia saying we wouldn't see an improved training mode unless they release something bigger than a patch

That's fine.. but there's a difference between can't and won't. They can do anything they want to in a patch, even improve the training mode. If they wanted..

They certainly can (and have, somewhat) improve the netcode further. Unless its just Gamespy running crappy servers..

 

[aj1701]

patches tweak parts of the game that already exist. For balancing you can add values to things such as dmg, recovery, startup etc and it will work.

3D hitboxes to 2D hitboxes is a total rework of the game engine, it is not something you can simply edit or swap out and be done. It also requires a monumental time to test and adjust to make it work. Something a patch can not do.

Trading hits is also a game design, and its not something you can just be like "o lets just add this in". This alone totally changes the game design and would require a lot of time to test/balance out.

Training mode would require a total rework to parts of the game that aren't even in the present form of the game. You can't just be like "well herp-derp lets add playback", you have to actually build that whole functionality instead of just adjusting a part of the code.

In a nutshell TL;DR for the above quoted things I mention, there is no on/off switch you can simply activate which is patching essentially. Patching is just editing files in the existing game, it isn't adding/changing anything significant to the game.

Also one thing I like to address. DLC characters take a bit of time to develop, create and test out. What most people don't realize is patching requires approx a month to go through Sony and Microsoft Q/A testing. Meaning that characters like Freddy were already completed way before the date he was going to be released.



It is not possible because no corporate company would spend that many resources on a rework of that level of significance. Patches are simply edits/adjustments. Not total reworks.

MS is famous for "patches" that completely rework things. They can certainly rewrite the net code, if they feel it will improve it greatly.

Anyway you've given reasons as to why they might not want to fix some of these things through patches (the net code really does need further improvement. Do you think I'm going to buy MK10 if they don't make MK9 better online?), but there's no technical reason they couldn't add record / playback. There's no technical reason why they can't replace the entire game engine via a patch even.

You're right, they likely won't do most of what you're saying through a patch, but they certainly should rework the netcode, if they want to ensure future sales. But saying they can't is simply incorrect.

 

[MagicMan357]

I'm super raging. Its not like every single successful fighting game has trades and for good reasons.

How is the computer randomly deciding on every other frame not random on who wins trades? How will people ever know if their move was +frame,-frame, or safe? Lets say I did a jump-in kick and cage does the anti-air flip kick and I won, I guess I must be lucky right? You're the one that seems angry calling imaginary players a "lucky bitch".

And who mentioned SF? you seem super salty, want to talk about your pent up rage?

Gotta love how you dont know what salty means considering i play almost all fighters, so anyways...

Trades in MK just means more people bitching about MK being broken which its not

Kung lao jump kicks while reptile does his 3,2 and theres a trade-oh now look he just does the combo AGAIN

so nope,, no trades

 

[Sasuga]

3D hitboxes to 2D hitboxes is a total rework of the game engine, it is not something you can simply edit or swap out and be done. It also requires a monumental time to test and adjust to make it work. Something a patch can not do.

No, the game allready incorporates 2d hitboxes. Further, if dlc containing alt outfits can change frame data and hitboxes, it's also possible through patching. 2d hitboxes dont take up a lot of space. I think you can quite easily fit al the hitboxdata in a couple of MB's. It's not a very neat sollution, true, if done through patching.

In a nutshell TL;DR for the above quoted things I mention, there is no on/off switch you can simply activate which is patching essentially. Patching is just editing files in the existing game, it isn't adding/changing anything significant to the game.

This makes no sense at all. You can download entire games through store. Code and data and you would also be able to change existing data

I think the biggest change would be in the framedata/hitboxes. This would be really ugly through patching but for most people by itself isn't worth buying a new disc for.

Improving the trainingmode to include to have a recordable dummy? Is nearly already there. The recording you can make now is exactly the same, it records input, nothing more. I had a combo in there that worked in one version and didn't work after a patch. The only thing you need to add to it to make a good training dummy, is mirror inputs when it ends up at the other side and make the input loop.

Spectator in KotH? Not a big change imo. Give idle players a 'sit out' option. Dont even need to be like SSF4, where you have to wait for the host to timeout. And players who are on the phone or whatever can use the option as to not delay other matches.

Save replays? At this point hardly worth the effort with framedata changing all the time. When a stable version is released it is not that much different from recording how its done now.

What I would do is release UMK9 through DLC, make it 20 dollars or something like any other downloadable game and make it check for the mk disc during runtime. You download the entire game. Then release it on disc for 60 orso because the DLC is going to be a couple of GB's.

 

[RagingNight]

Gotta love how you dont know what salty means considering i play almost all fighters, so anyways...

Trades in MK just means more people bitching about MK being broken which its not

Kung lao jump kicks while reptile does his 3,2 and theres a trade-oh now look he just does the combo AGAIN

so nope,, no trades

Actually in that situation if a trade happened, both reptile and and kunglao would be knockdown. Thanks but try again. Btw salty=upset, you seem salty for calling people lucky bitches. stay raged son

MS is famous for "patches" that completely rework things. They can certainly rewrite the net code, if they feel it will improve it greatly.

Anyway you've given reasons as to why they might not want to fix some of these things through patches (the net code really does need further improvement. Do you think I'm going to buy MK10 if they don't make MK9 better online?), but there's no technical reason they couldn't add record / playback. There's no technical reason why they can't replace the entire game engine via a patch even.

You're right, they likely won't do most of what you're saying through a patch, but they certainly should rework the netcode, if they want to ensure future sales. But saying they can't is simply incorrect.

No company is going to rewrite a brand new netcode, test it, and offer it for free in a patch, they might edit the existing one in an attempt to make it slightly better but not redo the whole thing. If NRS were to create a better netcode it would most definitely be in MK10. NRS can't/won't fix these things via patches because it would take way too many resources and at the same time offer little incentive to do. They would rather fix these things and just implement them in the next iteration of the game.

No, the game allready incorporates 2d hitboxes. Further, if dlc containing alt outfits can change frame data and hitboxes, it's also possible through patching. 2d hitboxes dont take up a lot of space. I think you can quite easily fit al the hitboxdata in a couple of MB's. It's not a very neat sollution, true, if done through patching.

you are forgetting the amount of time needed to test and balance a transition of that caliber. All of that takes money, money that NRS is most likely unwilling to spend to offer it for free.

This makes no sense at all. You can download entire games through store. Code and data and you would also be able to change existing data

Yes you can download entire games, but you have to pay for them. NRS isn't going to offer their time and money to give things of that caliber for free.

 

[MagicMan357]

yea thats not salty idiot, considering i get lucky too so once again you failed. Are you trying to go for that 3 piece combo?

And what happens especially when in the corner and the person recovers, are you trying to tell me they can do anything? Just stop.

 

[aj1701]

No company is going to rewrite a brand new netcode, test it, and offer it for free in a patch, they might edit the existing one in an attempt to make it slightly better but not redo the whole thing. If NRS were to create a better netcode it would most definitely be in MK10. NRS can't/won't fix these things via patches because it would take way too many resources and at the same time offer little incentive to do. They would rather fix these things and just implement them in the next iteration of the game.

MS included a firewall, brand new feature in WinXP SP2. Previously there was none there. And the pack is free.

There's a lot of things to consider. If they're at the limit of their current netcode can do, and they view it as a big enough problem (read, it will really hurt sales of MK10), they can rewrite it. I doubt it would take "too many resources." One or two devs could do it I'm sure. Of course that's assuming its really that broken, which it probably isn't.

You really need to stop saying can't. They most certain CAN do it. As you said though, its a matter of will. Most games get patches to fix broken things because they realize its their future sales at stake if they don't.

 

[RagingNight]

yea thats not salty idiot, considering i get lucky too so once again you failed. Are you trying to go for that 3 piece combo?

And what happens especially when in the corner and the person recovers, are you trying to tell me they can do anything? Just stop.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=salty
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/salty
rage more nerd
INB4 unreliable source;

I doubt it would take "too many resources." One or two devs could do it I'm sure. Of course that's assuming its really that broken, which it probably isn't.

So who is going to test this fabulous netcode that these 2 devs are creating

You really need to stop saying can't. They most certain CAN do it. As you said though, its a matter of will. Most games get patches to fix broken things because they realize its their future sales at stake if they don't.

Can't not in the sense that they are physically unable to patch it, can't in the sense that there are other factors that won't allow NRS to create these patches for free. Pretty sure WB or some higerups have to approve of extra funding for these types of things.

 

[Sasuga]

If NRS were to create a better netcode it would most definitely be in MK10.

They could do it for the current version. Most code is reusable, than they would have it tried and tested for every future version. Even if they decide to use something else than unreal engine for a successor, the code wouldn't need much altering.

you are forgetting the amount of time needed to test and balance a transition of that caliber. All of that takes money, money that NRS is most likely unwilling to spend to offer it for free.

I don't even think converting all the hitboxes 2d is the most elegant solution. It seems to me that it has more to do with the conditions on when a character gets hit. If a char does x-ray with armor and you can just poke him out of it has nothing to do with 3d-models or 2d planes that intersect. Collision=yes, attacker scores hit, defender is in armored state, gets damage but continues animation.

It doesn't all have to be free, just not at the price of an entire game. Especially if its just the old version, but fixed. That would be worse than any other street fighter installment, lol.

 

[RagingNight]

It doesn't all have to be free, just not at the price of an entire game. Especially if its just the old version, but fixed. That would be worse than any other street fighter installment, lol.

I would pay 15-20 bucks for a playable online netcode, training mode, balance changes that have been thoroughly tested and 1-2 characters.

40 bucks if its all that + like 6 new characters, and an overall big improvement to the game (consistencies, training mode, online, no de-syncs, balance, costumes, etc etc)

most people don't realize that developers don't usually get it 100% on their first time. I mean I'm pretty sure NRS is learning from their mistakes after what they did to Kano

 

[JulianH1001]

Paulo said himself that the reason they can't patch the training mode and other big things is because Microsoft only allows 4mb patches on XBL.

 

[Sasuga]

Paulo said himself that the reason they can't patch the training mode and other big things is because Microsoft only allows 4mb patches on XBL.

Doesn't that just apply to mandatory patches..? I mean, the compatibility packs are way over 4mb.

I would pay 15-20 bucks for a playable online netcode, training mode, balance changes that have been thoroughly tested and 1-2 characters.

most people don't realize that developers don't usually get it 100% on their first time. I mean I'm pretty sure NRS is learning from their mistakes after what they did to Kano

Agreed. This seems like the best option to me.

Btw, I could have sworn I replied to this earlier...