Question Smoke Vs The Competition. How does he stand?

[PeeJaeys]

Ok, well I know people have their teir list or what not, but I don't particularly pay too much attention to that. But, what I am concerned about is how well of a character he is against competitive players, not casual. E.I A really good Smoke Vs The Competition. For example, recently I've seen Chago and Aris (is that his name?) and they were doing pretty damn well, if it wasn't for some minor mistakes they might have been able to pull it off. It's obvious that competition is filled with pretty tough characters, but what do you honestly think? Please put aside preference and look at the situation logically, mathematicallly even. And please give your opinion based on facts, not bias.

Ps. I know it's been said around the forum lately, but why did his OTG removal drop him so low in people's list? What's the big difference (Strat wise)? I need good answers as I'm contemplating switching him up.

 

[VRbrada]

in my opinion smoke is 1 player wich has the answer for all play styles!smoke vs a rush player can use his teleport or even his ex-shake to make them relax!smoke vs spamers can use his shake to punishe them and relax them also!smoke vs jumpers(i call them bunnys)he just jump and air throw!smoke is one of few fighters who doesnt play by the rules of others he makes his own rule and gameplay on every match!he dont lack in anything but he dont ecxel in something particular than others!the only thing he dont have is low moves so if your opponent knows that he will never duck block so you cant combo them!!but if you use your b,4 eventualy your opponent will duck block and then you will combo them by 39%!this is smoke!

 

[G4S KT]

Smoke is incredibly strong, but against S tier characters played at the highest level his moveset's lack of variety puts him at a bit of a disadvantage.

I ended up getting knocked out of ECT by a nasty reptile. It's probably due to lack of experience against a good reptile, but the dashes combined with mix ups on block string were overwhelming. I feel like a ton of experience against top level s tier characters is necessary for smoke to win against them.

 

[MagicMan357]

My only issue with smoke is he has no pressure game at all, especially with no chip

 

[cabibi]

My only issue with smoke is he has no pressure game at all, especially with no chip

That's not entirely true... While agree, he doesn't have any pressure on a standing opponent, the secret to his pressure is oki.

use his anti zoning to score a knock down, from there.. smoke excels in his mind games. once you get a knock down, get in close (I like to purposely wiff a teleport punch)... Now the opponent has a few options... block high, block low, wake up, jump. Smoke's b2, 3 smokebomb string starts with an overhead, and stuffs low blocks, and jumps. sweep stuffs high blocks, and block stuffs wakeups.

Most people will block high on their first oki, so I typically start out with a sweep, then do a b2 string. You just have to read your oponnent, if you do a good job you can literally run the round.

 

[ApocaLips]

The problem is when your opponent knows the matchup well enough to not fall for any anti-zoning tricks. At that point, they can just waltz in and smoke has no real options to handle it. Getting that one knockdown is incredibly hard in some matchups and against certain opponents.

Also, his oki is good, but it's not so particularly good as to make him stand out. I've recently been focusing on sektor and have been playing kabal for a while, and both of them have comparable oki, if not straight up better.

Smoke seems good, but he really has gaping holes in his game plan, and I don't think that a character can function properly at the top like that. That's on top of the fact that he already has a reactionary playstyle, which isn't ideal in a fighting game.

Smoke was my dedicated main up to the patch and a little past it. I've since switched, and I don't regret the choice even a little. I feel so much more in control of matches it's not even funny.

 

[THTB]

Smoke is low tier, but he isn't a terrible character.

 

[shoshinsha]

I really have to say that I have a hard time seeing what makes Smoke low-tier. Don't get me wrong: I see exactly what makes him scrub-friendly. But the only glaring issue I see with him is no low string starters, which his d+4 -> b+2, 3 setup is decent (though admittedly not great) compensation for.

 

[Dan]

Smoke is low tier, but he isn't a terrible character.

What's your point? Can you describe why and make some analysis?

 

[JennyCage]

Being low tier doesn't mean a character is scrub-friendly. If anything it means the opposite - low tier characters generally have fewer tools or less useful strings than others, making them anti-scrub friendly.

I don't think Smoke is low tier. He can still do 40% midscreens without meter and 40+ with. He suffers from a lack of mixup but there's nothing stopping a Smoke player from supplementing it with sweeps and grabs (he has one of the fastest if not fastest sweep in the game). The high level Smoke players I fight play him as a rushdown character. He can pressure surprisingly well with his strings despite not having the fastest hands, and he can maintain positioning with Smoke Away/Toward. Your mileage may vary depending on your opponent (don't recommend this versus Kabal for example). I've seen Smokes beat some of the top online players, so don't be discouraged, he has more than enough tools to be threatening.

 

[ApocaLips]

What's your point? Can you describe why and make some analysis?

It's definitely because of how swingy his matchups are.

Edit: I'll elaborate.


Smoke is an anti-zoning character. He has some other tricks, but that's basically what he is. He really doesn't have any tools to reliably counter rushdown.

He has some really great matchups against characters that are all-in on a projectile zoning game (Noob, Sindel). Characters that aren't purely zoning are moderate match ups, maybe slightly disadvantageous for smoke (Sub Zero, Mileena). Characters that are nearly purely rushdown give smoke a lot of trouble because he doesn't really have a way to stop them from doing what they do best (Johnny, Lao). He can ex shake to reset the situation when things get really bad, but that's about it.

Smoke has a couple interesting advantages that haven't been exploited yet (such as being the only character who can reliably get out of nearly all corner traps with enhanced teleport), but I'm not convinced they're anywhere near enough to keep him viable as a main in a tournament.

That said, since smoke's matchups are so wild, he can make a great counterpick.

 

[hardwire]

What's your point? Can you describe why and make some analysis?

no he plays a broken op fighter and thinks smoke sucks for it



just wait the reptile nerf is coming and it will come hard.

 

[Kakimori]

no he plays a broken op fighter and thinks smoke sucks for it



just wait the reptile nerf is coming and it will come hard.

 

[hardwire]

you can call me salty all you want just wait and see who the salty is when i get proven right


like ive said countless times the dash interupts kung laus spin for god sake its broken it needs a tad (not a lot) just a tad slower start up and ya know what if they did that i would not even say mess with the recovery frames but as it is the damn move might as well be a 1 frame attack if you time it right you can not even let go of block vs a reptile

 

[SektorCyrax]

you can call me salty all you want just wait and see who the salty is when i get proven right


like ive said countless times the dash interupts kung laus spin for god sake its broken it needs a tad (not a lot) just a tad slower start up and ya know what if they did that i would not even say mess with the recovery frames but as it is the damn move might as well be a 1 frame attack if you time it right you can not even let go of block vs a reptile

werent you just bitching about the recovery frames on the elbowdash a few days ago? about how you could never punish it. Just throw them everytime you block it and they wont do it as much. simple

 

[PeeJaeys]

I didn't intend this thread to become an arguement. I was hoping for educated answers. I feel like I play smoke very differently than a lot of people. So much so that it's annoying. I do not use smoke as a rushdown character, and I never try to get into close encounters if I don't have to. I think TYM Kombo is the only whose seen me play him the way I usually do.

 

[InstantClasSiik]

I see a lot of people have trouble with the rushdown counters. What works for me when using smoke is that when a rushdown character (ala johnny cage or KL) starts coming in is an enhanced smoke towards. This goes through all the strikes of their string and puts you behind them for a quick dash towards to start a combo. Gives me a lot of success, so maybe you guys could try that out.