Match-up Discussion Skarlet Match-Up Chart

[Ninj]

No one is questioning your knowlege of YOUR characters. Don't get it twisted. Your posts make it seem as if you never played a skarlet before.

Your posts are just wrong (regarding skarlet vs reptile). Sorry dude.

This.

 

[AssassiN]

THTB
End this discussion about Skarlet vs Reptile

 

[Ninj]

MITDJT Tyler Lantern and Showtime both agree. We're waiting to hear thoughts on why the Reptile v Skarlet mu isn't 7-3. What is it? How does Reptile get in or keep her out?

No one's talking about the whole cast. We're talking about Reptile (edit).

By the way, CD is a great player - but he is not the best Skarlet player by any means.

 

[LEGEND]

@mtdjt Tyler Lantern and Showtime both agree. We're waiting to hear thoughts on why the Reptile v Skarlet mu isn't 7-3. What is it? How does Reptile get in or keep her out?

No one's talking about the whole cast. We're talking about Skarlet.

By the way, CD is a great player - but he is not the best Skarlet player by any means.

thanks for keeping it civil.

The way TYM has been going lately i thought shit was about to get crazy again

 

[AssassiN]

For scorpion, i got it 6 4 bcuz I can still use d4 in footsies and she can't do her slide without getting burned. So she will have to approach, and iadd won't do no good bcuz i can tele. For cyrax, not only his resets, but the dmg he gets and skarlet can't trade with him or face a full reset. Also rax's d4 is very solid to keep skarlet out, and he can attack her just as well. The bombs will force her to move and that's an issue, and she can't really use meter much bcuz of the threat of the resets. Sonya wins bcuz her projectile will cause skarlet issues and sonya gets low, which will mess with skarlet's pressure game. D4 ms should work perfectly, u can inform me on why it isn't good vs skarlet. Now for reptile, my d4 will be troublesome for skarlet. Also i can easily bait armor with ex forceball, which will make them want to use armor, thus causing a waste in meter. Reptile gets low, which means her attack won't work as well. Iadd won't work bcuz of my forceball, and anytime i throw an ex slow forceball on the screen, skarlet will have to deal with it, which is free pressure for me.

I won't speak about Reptile or Scorpion cause I need some more MU experience against them.
But I'll speak about Cyrax.

Skarlet will zone with Cyrax, if Cyrax throws out a bomb he'll trade with the dagger and that will leave Skarlet at +11. She can red dash or has time to move away from the bomb.
If Cyrax throws out the net to try and trade with the dagger, Skarlet can jump over the net full screen. The Skarlet player won't be stupid enough to zone up close.

Skarlet can counter D4 with close daggers and that gives her +15 advantage on hit.
So that's pretty much Skarlet's way in.

Skarlet can punish the net with teleport or ex dash + slash.
And don't you worry about her meter, she'll have it right back.

Just a quick FYI, Skarlet players zone mostly fullscreen with ground daggers. Maybe throw out a far air dagger to catch jumping opponents.

didn't i just say why I have it 5 5 when i replied to and CD has placed better than all skarlet's except scar if I'm correct.

Never has anyone said that CD is a joke, his skills are amazing.

It's just that his Skarlet still needs some work.
He's dropping too many combo's and Skarlet can do more damage than the combo's he is using.

 

[ryublaze]

Just because a player places better with 1 character doesn't mean he plays her the best/at the fullest. CD's a great player like Ninj said, but there's still a lot he can work on. I don't think he used Skarlet in every match to get top 16 at EVO, and I think his fundamentals and skill as a player got him there. I'm not disagreeing with anyone. I think it can be 5-5 or 6-4 Skarlet's favor after having played Israel 's Reptile.

 

[Eddy Wang]

For scorpion, i got it 6 4 bcuz I can still use d4 in footsies and she can't do her slide without getting burned. So she will have to approach, and iadd won't do no good bcuz i can tele. For cyrax, not only his resets, but the dmg he gets and skarlet can't trade with him or face a full reset. Also rax's d4 is very solid to keep skarlet out, and he can attack her just as well. The bombs will force her to move and that's an issue, and she can't really use meter much bcuz of the threat of the resets. Sonya wins bcuz her projectile will cause skarlet issues and sonya gets low, which will mess with skarlet's pressure game. D4 ms should work perfectly, u can inform me on why it isn't good vs skarlet. Now for reptile, my d4 will be troublesome for skarlet. Also i can easily bait armor with ex forceball, which will make them want to use armor, thus causing a waste in meter. Reptile gets low, which means her attack won't work as well. Iadd won't work bcuz of my forceball, and anytime i throw an ex slow forceball on the screen, skarlet will have to deal with it, which is free pressure for me.

iadF recovers as fast as kabal's iaGB if not faster, getting the timing to catch skarlet in air with scorpion teleport can be a very bad choice, since she can duck and full combo punish from a single poke, unless you use iateleport, which is safe, but u'll only get pressure.

Actually there no D4 that works on skarlet if she knows exactly what she is doing, iadd was designed to punish whiffed pokes, including D4, D1, and D3 as a way to get inside her range of placement (thrust me, getting in using D4 is a very bad idea sometimes), she can just jump cancel it with low daggers and make it safe all day long.

Skarlet can time her red slide with cyrax bombs, and shut down his game, the moment you throw a bomb in the screen, is the moment you'll get punished with slide or get pressured.

 

[Ninj]

Things Reptile needs to be able to deal with in the MU, which lend reason to why it's 7-3:

1) U3
2) Counter zoning pressure from standing dagger cancels after being knocked down at full screen
3) Keep Skarlet in the corner despite EX Dash
4) On reaction teleport punish for any projectile besides EX Fast Forceball
5) 33%-44% reset combo's into guaranteed 8% chip minimum
6) On reaction EX Dash through any projectile
7) Down daggers

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I disagree that Reptile vs Skarlet is 7-3.

Ninja edit

 

[16 Bit]

He did not place top 16 at EVO with all Skarlet. He used Kitana in pools. However, he used all Skarlet to get 9th at MLG Raleigh. That is to date the highest placing for a Skarlet player. Let's be serious here, CD is out there getting results and beating good players instead of talking about potential.

 

[M2Dave]

You people are fools. Crazy Dominican is the best Skarlet player in this community. How can a player place top 16 at Evolution 2012 and MLG Raleigh and not be considered the best? Name one other Skarlet player who has results that rival his. In fact, I believe CD was the first player to ever place top 16 at a major tournament.

Also, unless someone proves to me that he can do iaDs consistently, Skarlet has one of the worst projectile zoning games in the game. Dagger cancels are a joke. They are best used at mid range to close the gap and set up an offense.

 

[RTM2004]

I still think Kitana beats Skarlet 6-4. Kitana's normals have incredible range F2,1 and 2,1 along with her Jump Kick~Fan all which deal with high damage and if Skarlet gets hit she will use 2 bars for Breaker so less meter for armored Ex Red Dash. Also if Skarlet gets her Slashes or her Teleport blocked, she will lose half life unless she breaks. I do think that if Skarlet outspace Kitana properly and punish Kitana's whiffed attacks and normals including Cutter with Ex Red Dash combo launcher it could be even and if Skarlet hangs on to the life lead she can try to keep Kitana out with Daggers and Blood Ball 15% hit or 6% chip on block but she also must stay out of the air to not be caught in air in Kitana's Fan combos 28% damage or if Kitana wants to use Ex Fan meters to make it unbreakable to extend additional damage.

It seems very life lead based but to this day very few players actually punish Kitana's whiff attacks by staying outside the range where Kitana needs to think twice before approaching her opponent with F2,1 and 2,1/2, Cutters and Jump Kicks. IMO the only person who fights Kitana correctly is Wafflez, watching him and 16Bit play on stream is a spacing war and Kitana is super cautious before approaching him because any wrong advances she tries in the spacing war that might miss, Smoke punishes very hard in addition to the counterpoking department. Not sure what Skarlet does except her D3 and F4 are very good coupled with her armored Ex Red Dash. Still, Kitana punishes bad spacing. Gotta outspace her correctly

 

[Ninj]

None of this is contributing to the thread. I'm going to start deleting posts (including my own) to make sure this stays on topic.

 

[Israel]

a Great Skarlet vs an Average Reptile, can be 7-3. But a Great skarlet vs a Great Reptile can easily be changed to 6-4 and/or 5-5.
All this talk on what Skarlet will keep reptile from doing...I mean yes, your right about the MU. but dont forget what reptile can do. While playin RedRaptor10 , he did all the things u guys were saying. If he predicted a d4, he'd instant air knife. But at times..where he would predict it, and instead i did a fast Forceball, and he got hit. its times where on wake up, he'd attempt to blow thru my forceball with armor, yes he got it several times...but after a few times, with different timing i baited it and either Recovered fast or went invis and jumped.

Dont sleep on his dash and forceball mixups. I will admit, fighting skarlet is highly annoying, i can see why everything thinks she completely destroys reptile, BUT..its still reptile. all this 'if blocked dash she gets this much damage and this much...' well, u can say that about ever character. and the U3 which puts her in airborne state, yes that may be true..but u would have to make one hell of a read. if ur jus gonna stand ther and throw that out then u better be ready to eat some spits/forceballs. And the fear of dash still has players dashing in blocking.. in which his d4 mix ups will come to play. Its a hard MU for reptile but the player playing the Lizard can easily have you on the ropes.
The players gonna do what He has to do to win also..dont for get that

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

a Great Skarlet vs an Average Reptile, can be 7-3. But a Great skarlet vs a Great Reptile can easily be changed to 6-4 and/or 5-5.
All this talk on what Skarlet will keep reptile from doing...I mean yes, your right about the MU. but dont forget what reptile can do. While playin RedRaptor10 , he did all the things u guys were saying. If he predicted a d4, he'd instant air knife. But at times..where he would predict it, and instead i did a fast Forceball, and he got hit. its times where on wake up, he'd attempt to blow thru my forceball with armor, yes he got it several times...but after a few times, with different timing i baited it and either Recovered fast or went invis and jumped.

Dont sleep on his dash and forceball mixups. I will admit, fighting skarlet is highly annoying, i can see why everything thinks she completely destroys reptile, BUT..its still reptile. all this 'if blocked dash she gets this much damage and this much...' well, u can say that about ever character. and the U3 which puts her in airborne state, yes that may be true..but u would have to make one hell of a read. if ur jus gonna stand ther and throw that out then u better be ready to eat some spits/forceballs. And the fear of dash still has players dashing in blocking.. in which his d4 mix ups will come to play. Its a hard MU for reptile but the player playing the Lizard can easily have you on the ropes.
The players gonna do what He has to do to win also..dont for get that

if only I could like this 100 times haha, and 6 4 probably wouldn't have bothered me, but 7 3 is now giving improper info to the community, and I'm here to let them know that MU isn't that bad. I wouldn't want a reptile player scared to use reptile on skarlet bcuz someone put up a chart saying it was 7 3.

 

[Ninj]

a Great Skarlet vs an Average Reptile, can be 7-3. But a Great skarlet vs a Great Reptile can easily be changed to 6-4 and/or 5-5.
All this talk on what Skarlet will keep reptile from doing...I mean yes, your right about the MU. but dont forget what reptile can do. While playin RedRaptor10 , he did all the things u guys were saying. If he predicted a d4, he'd instant air knife. But at times..where he would predict it, and instead i did a fast Forceball, and he got hit. its times where on wake up, he'd attempt to blow thru my forceball with armor, yes he got it several times...but after a few times, with different timing i baited it and either Recovered fast or went invis and jumped.

Dont sleep on his dash and forceball mixups. I will admit, fighting skarlet is highly annoying, i can see why everything thinks she completely destroys reptile, BUT..its still reptile. all this 'if blocked dash she gets this much damage and this much...' well, u can say that about ever character. and the U3 which puts her in airborne state, yes that may be true..but u would have to make one hell of a read. if ur jus gonna stand ther and throw that out then u better be ready to eat some spits/forceballs. And the fear of dash still has players dashing in blocking.. in which his d4 mix ups will come to play. Its a hard MU for reptile but the player playing the Lizard can easily have you on the ropes.
The players gonna do what He has to do to win also..dont for get that

A matchup chart is a discussion about both players being the best they can be at their respective characters. No matchup chart is made up of "Assume Skarlet is a pro and Reptile is a scrub".

I agree that Reptile is not helpless in this matchup. Although I do think it's 7-3, I'm willing to say that I could be wrong. I don't think it can be said that the matchup is better than a 6-4 in Skarlet's favor though. Tool vs tool, Skarlet has too many on-reaction situations that put Reptile in a bad spot.

On the U3 - it's more of a deterrent to Reptile more than anything. The point is to safely train Reptile to not use Dash at mid-screen distance, which makes it safer for Skarlet to get in closer. That said, even if the U3 whiffs completely and Reptile does nothing, he has no move that can punish it. 37 frames total and she's back on the ground, not to mention airborne like you said for most of those 37 frames. It's a note-worthy advantage when one character's normal can safely punish a special at a distance for 45%.

 

[Israel]

if only I could like this 100 times haha, and 6 4 probably wouldn't have bothered me, but 7 3 is now giving improper info to the community, and I'm here to let them know that MU isn't that bad. I wouldn't want a reptile player scared to use reptile on skarlet bcuz someone put up a chart saying it was 7 3.

Yea well i can see the MU being in skarlets favor. I wont argue with that. But yea the whole 7-3, will probably have Rep players giving up on contact when they see the opponent picked skarlet. they gotta atleast try to fight back. and saying 'well he used skarlet, no way i can win...buh blah buh blah.' you may not win..but you best try. Lol

 

[Israel]

A matchup chart is a discussion about both players being the best they can be at their respective characters. No matchup chart is made up of "Assume Skarlet is a pro and Reptile is a scrub".

I agree that Reptile is not helpless in this matchup. Although I do think it's 7-3, I'm willing to say that I could be wrong. I don't think it can be said that the matchup is better than a 6-4 in Skarlet's favor though. Tool vs tool, Skarlet has too many on-reaction situations that put Reptile in a bad spot.

On the U3 - it's more of a deterrent to Reptile more than anything. The point is to safely train Reptile to not use Dash at mid-screen distance, which makes it safer for Skarlet to get in closer. That said, even if the U3 whiffs completely and Reptile does nothing, he has no move that can punish it. 37 frames total and she's back on the ground, not to mention airborne like you said for most of those 37 frames. It's a note-worthy advantage when one character's normal can safely punish a special at a distance for 45%.

i see what u sayin man...

 

[Ninj]

Remember everyone - a matchup chart is opinion. You can respectfully disagree.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

A matchup chart is a discussion about both players being the best they can be at their respective characters. No matchup chart is made up of "Assume Skarlet is a pro and Reptile is a scrub".

I agree that Reptile is not helpless in this matchup. Although I do think it's 7-3, I'm willing to say that I could be wrong. I don't think it can be said that the matchup is better than a 6-4 in Skarlet's favor though. Tool vs tool, Skarlet has too many on-reaction situations that put Reptile in a bad spot.

On the U3 - it's more of a deterrent to Reptile more than anything. The point is to safely train Reptile to not use Dash at mid-screen distance, which makes it safer for Skarlet to get in closer. That said, even if the U3 whiffs completely and Reptile does nothing, he has no move that can punish it. 37 frames total and she's back on the ground, not to mention airborne like you said for most of those 37 frames. It's a note-worthy advantage when one character's normal can safely punish a special at a distance for 45%.

I'm doing homework right now, but I will explain everything more in depth when I'm done, and I'm getting into frames and everything when I start talking bcuz that's how I explain things when I really have the time. So just give me some time to finish up, and I'll give you my breakdown of the match.

 

[ryublaze]

Israel kind of off topic but I might be coming back to STL from Oct. 11 - 14 but I'm gonna be super rusty.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@ m2dave

CD has never beaten a top Kabal or Lao with skarlet to get top 16. I shouldn't have spoken so harshly. he is a great player. but he has not fought the difficult match ups with her and won.

Let's also keep in mind that he has been to many more tournaments than every other scarlet player here. I went to one major with her and got 17th. I lost to two kabals. Not terrible IMO.

Just saying that CDs two month old Scarlet is not what you should be measuring your reptile against.

 

[Ninj]

I'm doing homework right now, but I will explain everything more in depth when I'm done, and I'm getting into frames and everything when I start talking bcuz that's how I explain things when I really have the time. So just give me some time to finish up, and I'll give you my breakdown of the match.

Sounds great.

Remember that in a matchup chart discussion, you're not defending yourself, or your character. You're honestly and realistically discussing tool vs tool, setup vs setup.

Incorrect: When I Elbow Dash into D4,Acid Hand, there's nothing my opponent can do.

Correct: Elbow Dash into D4,Acid Hand can be a good way to close distance, however if the Skarlet player is at mid-screen distance, it needs to be timed well to avoid an U3 and I need to also predict that they won't jump away into a down dagger which would reverse pressure back on to me. It's also possible they could EX Dash into my Elbow Dash and punish me.

The correct one shows both sides of the coin. In the situation I described, Skarlet has 3 realistic options that can stop the pressure setup - all 3 of which are realistic options a Skarlet player would take if they knew the matchup.

A matchup chart discussion can not only bring to light ideas about countering pressure and counter-countering pressure in matchups, but can also reveal ones own misunderstandings about the matchup. In the end, this only makes the community stronger and smarter. The other side of the coin is that MU chart discussions can turn into flame wars. This post won't turn into one of those, so let's all get smarter here.

 

[Israel]

Remember everyone - a matchup chart is opinion. You can respectfully disagree.

oh yea, lol dont think that im mad or anything. Jus respectfully giving my side yea.

 

[Israel]

Israel kind of off topic but I might be coming back to STL from Oct. 11 - 14 but I'm gonna be super rusty.

oh iight cool. If you are...hit up Slips.